Is cyber cheating

[Mr.J]

i did not mean to judge anybody on here about what they do online or off with out there partners knowing i was just answering my point of view

and for my comment about everybody can change it takes time well i serpose that did sound a little one sided

but i have not met man or woman that breaths that if there partner asked them to go out choose them, some little lace outfit ,leather or what ever floats there boat then tells them they can tie them up and have there way with them they would not jump at the chance, i was just saying there is a spark in all of us

[J-Go]

This is a great topic to get thoughts on something I am sure most have asked them selfs one time or another. I also noticed a few replies get a bit heated.. just a reminder to play nice too.

When you get afew Doms in a room discussing a topic like this one you will get some passonate debate...nature of the beast.

D I have found nothing offensive stated here, I understand it's your opinion. I may not agree with it all but from one dom to another I respect your right to it...keep it up.

Widget we do play nice...unless we're in the dungeon weg

[Arria]

I am with D insofar as I don´t actually believe into vanilla people - I think everybody has hidden fantasies one way or another.
My first real relationship broke because we discovered our likings at the same time - guess what, we were both submissive and into pain, but neither of us wanted to "hurt" or dominate the other, it just felt horribly wrong. Looking for things outside the relationship was not an option - we both did not function like that (we were 19 y.o., so no long marriage or whatever was at stake, but the breakup was painful as hell nevertheless).

What I read in some other threads coming from submissive ladies who complained like hell about their vanilla hubbies learning the Dom stuff at such an agonizingly slow pace or refusing completely - I found that very heartless. Your husbands married you vanilla. How would you feel if halfway through a marriage your hubby came to you and said "become something you never were, something you might not even like to be, or else I will cheat on you or leave you, or in the best case demonstrate at every given opportunity that you do not make me happy?"
Sometimes reading those threads I have the feeling that the vanilla spouse´s feeling never get considered.
That sucks. Really. I have no way of putting this nicely.

And apart from that: I can assure whomever that if the man does not like to be a Dom, it will never ever truly satisfy the submissive - it will always feel stale and weak and not genuine, compared with the real thing.

I was lucky enough not to consider anyone vanilla as a spouse ever after that first catastrophic breakup in my life. My heart is with the ones who realized what they are only too late, and no, I don´t have a solution to their problem... What I do know is that, unlike some people might believe, BDSM is not simply a "kink" one can do without... it goes far deeper, and not getting it can make one seriously unhappy.

I would think it fair if such a half-vanilla couple would end the relationship in a non-cruel way, as this way each of the partners (!) has a chance to go and find someone that makes you truly happy, but that´s a choice one has to make for oneself.

[Radiance]

If your partner knows what your going online its not cheating if your hiding the online cyber its cheating,that simple grins

[Ozme52]

Now I have a fabulous secretary at my office ...

HA! That was gonna be my quip. Good one TY

[Ozme52]

It seems to me New1, that you're asking the wrong people the wrong question- as annie pretty much said, you have to work it out yourself whether what she did is acceptable to you.

Oho! Look who's back. Excellent!






N.B. As forum posts tend to be atonal, please be sure there is no sarcasm intended in the above remark.

[Ozme52]

...

[Stone]

Cheating ......
I will say everyones defination is diffrent......it only matters what the 2 people involved think cheating is and is one opinion is far diffrent than the others then ummmm i dont know what to say to that...

Cheating can mean many things to many people....but if someone is doing it behind your back then that tell me they are not proud of it.......sure cybering doesnt fit the physical standards of cheating but they are fullfilling that physical need without being physical....its definately cheating on a emotional level......they are getting something out of it that they are not getting form their relationship.....

Ok for those compare cybering to stories magazines and dvd's.......well for one none of thsoe things are interactive for 2 the isnt another person involved in anyway 3 when was the last time someone rented a dvd and 3 months later the whole cast of porn sluts showed up at their door sayinf het you rented our dvd awhile back you wanna fuck?
so it is far diffrent that books and movies

[Ozme52]

We all draw the line in different places.

There are plenty of women, and you read about it in a variety of info sources, who still object to their spouses interacting with magazines, videos, strip bars, and all of the previously mentioned 'non-cheating' activities. They claim it's no different.

So it's a little disconcerting to see all of that kind of intolerance here at this site...

I don't mind statements like "I feel cheated when xyz happens."
No, we're seeing "It is cheating when xyz happens."

Perhaps I'm guilty of the same phraseology on other topics...

[delish]

We all draw the line in different places.

There are plenty of women, and you read about it in a variety of info sources, who still object to their spouses interacting with magazines, videos, strip bars, and all of the previously mentioned 'non-cheating' activities. They claim it's no different.

So it's a little disconcerting to see all of that kind of intolerance here at this site...

I don't mind statements like "I feel cheated when xyz happens."
No, we're seeing "It is cheating when xyz happens."

Perhaps I'm guilty of the same phraseology on other topics...

Bold added by me.

This statement made me think about my responses here. I think it's safe to say that it's a problem, at the very least, if one person feels betrayed by the actions of the other person.

I also hope that when I've expressed my thoughts on this subject that it's clear that I am speaking from the position of my own relationship, and I'm pretty sure I said or agreed with someone who said that the definition of cheating is unique to each relationship. Trust is important to me, so I tend to get overly passionate about betrayal of trust, at times. If I have come across as intolerant, I hope that is only an intolerance of the harm one person can do to another, and not of lifestyle choices that are acceptable within a relationship.

[new1]

The debate here has been amazing, lots of good viewpoints from both sides. I appreciate the time that each of you have spent posting and I believe that I can take something from both sides. By the by, we did finally talk, after she read through this posting, and I thought we had made some headway towards a mutual resolution, but some habits die hard and I don't think she's fully committed to our plan.

To be honest I knew nothing of this lifestyle until recently and with our without her I plan to keep learning and hopefully sharing as each of you have done with me.

Thank you,

new1

[Tojo]

Thanks Oz- a couple of my other hangouts seem to be fizzling out, so I'll see how this place is going.

Glad to hear you guys are getting somewhere new1, let us know how it goes.

One thing I don't think I mentioned is that it's easy to forget that a D/s relationship is no different to any other- in the context that it's what two people have to work out between themselves to their mutual satisfaction.

Oh & yes I do believe online can be cheating- it depends on what sort of relationship you have, & as Radiance says:

If your partner knows what your going online its not cheating if your hiding the online cyber its cheating,that simple grins

[fantassy]

I too believe that the line delineating cheating depends upon the rules established by a particular couple. For example, if am in a vanilla relationship and am horny and not getting sex while my significant other is masturbating in the bathroom every night - that is cheating. He is taking something from me - from our relationship without my consent. NOTE- i had to exclude a bdsm relationship because that would be par for the course for a Dom into orgasm control - and would not be cheating - because I had consented.

Similarly, if my relationship is suffering from lack of time and attention, then yes - playing golf could be considered cheating. Because it is cheating me of needed time. However, if my relationship is solid, and playing golf eases the tensions of the week to put my significant other in a better frame of mind when we are together - it is not cheating because it is giving a benefit to the relationship rather than harming it.

fantassy

[Alex Bragi]

...What I read in some other threads coming from submissive ladies who complained like hell about their vanilla hubbies learning the Dom stuff at such an agonizingly slow pace or refusing completely - I found that very heartless. Your husbands married you vanilla. How would you feel if halfway through a marriage your hubby came to you and said "become something you never were, something you might not even like to be, or else I will cheat on you or leave you, or in the best case demonstrate at every given opportunity that you do not make me happy?"
Sometimes reading those threads I have the feeling that the vanilla spouse´s feeling never get considered.
That sucks. Really. I have no way of putting this nicely.

...

Arria, I know you're a nice lady, so I think next time maybe you might just have to try harder to put it "nicely".

As Oz pointed out, why do so many people assume that it’s the vanilla partner who must change? And, how many people do you think fear telling their partners about their kinky sides in the first place out of fear of losing them? So often for a good reason too. While bsdm is considered quite the norm, here on this forum, whether you like it or not, it’s not widely accepted in the general community. Many people still consider it sick and abnormal, many spouses, particularly women, would find it quite abhorrent. So, should a partner in that situation just simple, as it’s been suggested here on this thread, “change”?

It’s sad and most unfortunate when two peoples’ sexual wants and needs aren’t the same, but they still just happen to love one another. I reiterate it’s not a simple case of “changing” your partner and it’s not a simple matter of saying “You don’t suit my particular sexual needs, so I’m moving on..”
A relationship, particularly a sexual/love relationship is never one dimensional. We are attracted to, and love, our partners for a whole myriad of reasons. I think it’s all just too easy to be sanctimonious and judgmental when you’re lucky enough to be in a relationship that is practically everything you want and need.

Please, I'm not saying I condone cyber relationships, and I’m not condemning them either as I believe that, in this instance, it’s inappropriate for anyone to espouse an opinion on the wickedness of cyber sex as ultimately each of us must live with the consequences of the choices we make.

[ThisYouWillDo]

Good luck to you both.

[annie]

Arria, I know you're a nice lady, so I think next time maybe you might just have to try harder to put it "nicely".

As Oz pointed out, why do so many people assume that it’s the vanilla partner who must change? And, how many people do you think fear telling their partners about their kinky sides in the first place out of fear of losing them? So often for a good reason too. While bsdm is considered quite the norm, here on this forum, whether you like it or not, it’s not widely accepted in the general community. Many people still consider it sick and abnormal, many spouses, particularly women, would find it quite abhorrent. So, should a partner in that situation just simple, as it’s been suggested here on this thread, “change”?

It’s sad and most unfortunate when two peoples’ sexual wants and needs aren’t the same, but they still just happen to love one another. I reiterate it’s not a simple case of “changing” your partner and it’s not a simple matter of saying “You don’t suit my particular sexual needs, so I’m moving on..”
A relationship, particularly a sexual/love relationship is never one dimensional. We are attracted to, and love, our partners for a whole myriad of reasons. I think it’s all just too easy to be sanctimonious and judgmental when you’re lucky enough to be in a relationship that is practically everything you want and need.

Please, I'm not saying I condone cyber relationships, and I’m not condemning them either as I believe that, in this instance, it’s inappropriate for anyone to espouse an opinion on the wickedness of cyber sex as ultimately each of us must live with the consequences of the choices we make.

VERY well said Alex... thank you!

[annie]

We all draw the line in different places.

There are plenty of women, and you read about it in a variety of info sources, who still object to their spouses interacting with magazines, videos, strip bars, and all of the previously mentioned 'non-cheating' activities. They claim it's no different.

So it's a little disconcerting to see all of that kind of intolerance here at this site...

I don't mind statements like "I feel cheated when xyz happens."
No, we're seeing "It is cheating when xyz happens."

Perhaps I'm guilty of the same phraseology on other topics...

You're right Oz... it is disconcerting. Especially considering what the site is and the type of tolerance we either get or don't get and have to fight against, at times on a regular basis.

Amazes me how sometimes what appears to be open mindedness is actually still a very closed minded person... unless you confirm to the person making the judgments standards that is.

[***Kate***]

Is cyber cheating ?
If your Partner dont know and you think you hear a voice in your head saying I think it might be classed as cheating. then there is a good chance that IT IS !!
but hey each to there own.

[annie]

The matter remains that he is unhappy and she does not care, whatever there was before, and whoever is to blame for it.

How do you know she doesn't care? Is she posting in this thread and it is being missed? Or could it be that new1 is so hurt that no matter what she does/says he is looking only at his hurt and anger and discounting anything she does to show that she cares? Just because she cheated may not mean she doesn't care. As I stated before, we are hearing only ONE side of this.

and for my comment about everybody can change it takes time well i serpose that did sound a little one sided

but i have not met man or woman that breaths that if there partner asked them to go out choose them, some little lace outfit ,leather or what ever floats there boat then tells them they can tie them up and have there way with them they would not jump at the chance, i was just saying there is a spark in all of us

I am with D insofar as I don´t actually believe into vanilla people - I think everybody has hidden fantasies one way or another.

I would agree as well that everyone has hidden fantasies... BUT that doesn't mean that some will ever share those fantasies with another human being. Some people never get comfortable and secure enough with themselves to share that part. No matter what the other partner does. Therefore some will never change, at least not on that subject, based on their up bringing, social conditioning, own insecurities, etc.

[Arria]

I would appreciate it greatly if whoever cites me would bother to take enough time and attention to go through everything I posted in here - not only the parts they disliked. Thanks.

[sidhewolf]

Please respond your opinion on cyber...

Hello New1 and All~

I've read your question, and over all the responses. In the past I've posted topic here along similar lines. The general consensus is that Cyber is Cheating IF a) you are in a Relationship AND b)that Relationship does not allow it, or it violates Agreements in some way. But in my experience there is far more to it than that. Different PPL cyber for different reasons. For some it's boredom, some lonliness, some have no real time interaction with a live Human, for some it's like porn. There are probably as many reasons as there are PPL.

My experience with this problem is that you and your Partner are different PPL with different thoughts and opinions. This is one area you and Partner don't agree on. You feel it's Cheating, she doesn't. All the opinions here are great in their own way I think, and it's good to ask for and get them. Might help your own perspective in sorting these things for yourself? Now where to go from here?

My thoughts are determine your own Bottom Line on them for yourself. It is You who has to decide if this is something you can accept about your Partner, or at least learn to tolerate it? As it appears by your post this is something she intends to continue even Knowing your feelings about it. And just to mention also that just because she doesn't intend to stop doing something she enjoys just because you don't like or feel comfortable with it, doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't care about you or your feelings. Perhaps it just means this is How she is? Maybe she has been involved in cyber long before you and it is one of the ways she interacts and sees it as harmless? Maybe there are other reasons? But they aren't likely to do with you at all.

The Bottom Line in this is that she intends to continue, and you have to decide for You if you can deal with it or not?

On the other hand, I Hope she's paying her own big cell phone bills for Her activity? <G>.

<Hugs> New1. This can be a tough one depending.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[Stone]

well like i said before this will go back to the online vs real life debate ............i am a real life dom sure i may play online and laugh and kid and joke...but to have an entire relationship this just seem a bit silly and makes me question both peoples motives on both sides of it......if they are single why not take the next step?.......if married and want out ..why not do just that...........to be married and not have the balls to say they want out and get what they want.......so basically they are selfish people who only care of themslefs if they want to keep it online...sure i can understand being married to a vanilla person that has no intrest in it......thats where they need to step up and say hey i either get what i want or we get a divorce or they will deal with it and be vanilla...i could never have just an online relationship i need the touch of flesh ect its ummmm way more enjoyable that way to me......now the ugly side of this the same people who do this form of cheating on their vanilla spouce...will often defend an online relationship with things like ...it is very real.......stuff klike that....but once they get cause by their spouce the first thing out of their mouths is.....its only on line it is not real ect......and these are the ones i hate the most pick a side any side dont try to play both.......

[Tojo]

Excellent post delia. It's far too easy to misunderstand someone's words when you're reading a line of text on a screen.

It's also pretty easy for someone to post without thinking, or when they've just had the dog chew up their slippers- a bit of tolerance goes a long way.

[ThisYouWillDo]

well like i said before this will go back to the online vs real life debate ............i am a real life dom sure i may play online and laugh and kid and joke...but to have an entire relationship this just seem a bit silly and makes me question both peoples motives on both sides of it......if they are single why not take the next step?.......if married and want out ..why not do just that...........to be married and not have the balls to say they want out and get what they want.......so basically they are selfish people who only care of themslefs if they want to keep it online...sure i can understand being married to a vanilla person that has no intrest in it......thats where they need to step up and say hey i either get what i want or we get a divorce or they will deal with it and be vanilla...i could never have just an online relationship i need the touch of flesh ect its ummmm way more enjoyable that way to me......now the ugly side of this the same people who do this form of cheating on their vanilla spouce...will often defend an online relationship with things like ...it is very real.......stuff klike that....but once they get cause by their spouce the first thing out of their mouths is.....its only on line it is not real ect......and these are the ones i hate the most pick a side any side dont try to play both.......

I've been happily married for 36 years (come April) to a vanilla woman for whom even normal sex has never been important. I would do anything rather than hurt her.

However, if I know I can do something and not get caught out, I might very well let myself do it. I know that makes me a cheat, but I can live with that. It's better than picking sides and losing what I have, or going without what I want.

In all those years, life has never been as conveniently black or white for me, Master Stone, as it seems to be for you.

TYWD.

[Isabelle90]

Even if/when two people "agree" to something like a cyber relationship outside of the r/l relationship, one of the parties might change their mind later.

For instance, when passwords get stolen and private correspondance is read, the content can be misinterpreted and cause the "thief" to.....oh, say.....file for divorce, threaten to use the lifestyle to gain custody of one's child, and rescind on all previously agreed terms.

So, how much of the cyber should be disclosed? Should a person disclose every detail of conversations exchanged by every single person they come in contact with? I understand that cyber goes a bit deeper, but if a cyber relationship is acceptable in the beginning, should the third party then be allowed to change their minds?

(Obviously there is more to this, but there just isn't enough space on this forum!! LOL)

[ThisYouWillDo]

I don't know at what point the 3rd party should be able to change his/her mind about an agreement: any time at all, I guess. But what s/he cannot do is use conduct prior to his/her recission against the other party because that was done with his/her approval or consent.

[ThisYouWillDo]

<Deleted - repeat of previous post>

[Arria]

Of course it is always possible to change one´s mind, people develop, people do change over time.
If both partners know what is going on, I think there will be no problem unless one of the parties think the "online other" starts to get more priority/affection/attention/time than the real life partner.

I think real life should always have priority. Hubby allows me to play online, but I am not to wear anybody´s online collar or obey orders that go deeper than what is possible during an online scene. He is the only one to whose will I will (and am allowed to) submit, and that´s fine with me, I would not want it any other way; and I am deeply grateful that he puts no more restrictions on me. After all, it´s him who gets the benefits in all ways *laughs*.
Should it ever happen that he fears something in here is going to deep and he wants me to stop it, I would do so - I might not be overly happy about it, but I will obey.
Again, real life always should have priority - in my opinion.

About what Isabelle90 said about a partner trying to use online world issues to gain custody of a child - I have known this to happen to an acquaintance, and she was only too lucky as the judge said he knew that page (another forum page) as well, and he did not see what that had to to with her abilities as a mother. So she did not have to suffer any consequences.
Especially regarding this issue I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for parents to keep parts of the lifestyle away from their children - the parts that might confuse, scare, or shock them. The parents among you might know that the idea of one´s parents having vanilla sex is weird enough at a certain age - let alone anything kinky or violent!

[Mr.J]

so how would all them doms and subs out there feel if they found emails letters and pics or what ever of there vanilla partners cybering because they dont feel loved understood or enuff time has been spent with them ? people think about life for them

[mkemse]

if i had a signifigantother and in an open relastionship, i would disucss it with her ato see how she felt, but i would also know that my signifigant otherwould have thesame feelings and beliefs that i do or we probably would not be together to startwith, do i think cybering is cheating, no there si not physical contact and to me you have to have physical contatct to cal it chearting, but this is only my belief, to my cybering is fantasy nothing more nothing less if it became RL then yes it would be cheating because phyiscal contact would be involved to me the key is physical contact