Submission is a gift?

[Desperado]

I hear this phrase all over the net. In chat, in forum posts, in articles and blogs. I fail to fully understand this concept. How is someone being who they are a gift to me, who is being who I am? Does that mean my dominance is also a gift? Yes a submissive offers her submission, surrender, obedience, etc, to the one she chooses to serve, but without his dominance, her submission means very little. The converse of this is true also, that without her submission, his dominance means little also.

What this leads me to conclude is that this dance we call bdsm, M/s, D/s, et al, is a symbiotic relationship in which both offer something vital to the other, meeting a need that is crucial to who each individual is, and that the real gift is in sharing yourselves honestly, openly and completely without regard to which side of the dominance/submissive coin you happen to be on.

What do you think?


D

[denuseri]

Well....a lot of times you will see people make things overly romantic. In that regard bdsm is no different then vanilla. Personally its just a cheesy in real as it is online and I've been guilty of it myself...may just be part of human nature. BDSM is at least a two way street...since you do need at least two people (though more then just two is preferred in some circles. As well as a total reduction in the if its bdsm it has to be all lovey dovy...because it doesn't.

[Kuve {Sett}]

Submission is a gift in the sense that while a sub is being true to themselves by being submissive they have no obligation whatever to be submissive to everyone who wants to call themselves dominant. If a specific submissive deems a specific Dom/me to be trustworthy and caring enough to offer their surrender and accept that Dom/me's control then that is a very precious gift from that particular sub to that particular dom/me and should be treated as such. It's been My experience that taking your partner for granted in any relationship, scene or vanilla, is a fast and sure way to bring about it's end.

As to the idea that a D/s relationship should be symbiotic I would argue that any healthy relationship between adults will be symbiotic, it's true in the vanilla world as well. Keeping it so, and ensuring that the needs of all parties involved are understood and met is a key reason for the honest and on-going two way communication that most people would agree is essential to making relationships work. It is also why I often tell people that when looking for a partner you can't just worry about what you hope to get, you need to consider what you are able and willing to give in exchange so that everyone involved has a clear idea of into what they are getting. If what one partner wants or needs is more than the other person can give then no matter how good a dom/me or sub they might be overall they are clearly not the right dom/me and sub for each other.

[Master Sergeant]

Before i express my response; Understand it is only my opinion. I am not a mental health professional. I am a Man who is a Dominant with a Sub (Wife).
Your observance that you claiming dominance in a relationship Definately Is Not a gift.

[Master Sergeant]

Trusting another enough to open the box of hidden desires is no small act. The sub who finally tells a partner of their desire / need to be submissive has a risk of ruining an established relationship. Others may see them as weird or too kinky to accept. Once the cat is out of the bag, the lines of communication and acceptance of responsibility increase ten fold. An accepting Dom takes on the obligation to provide a haven for the newly discovered sub. Extensive reading and understanding is required of the Dom. There is a great deal more to the D/s relationship than the servitude of the sub to the Dom. The Dom accepts the responsibility to ensure the subs mental and psychological / emotional needs are met and desires are unhidden. To find and meet the individual needs of the sub will enrich the relationship beyond sex. The commitment of one to the other becomes stronger and the 2 can grow to enjoy a rewarding relationship. In short; Submission is not a gift but, is a challenge to the mind and body of anyone calling themselves Dom.

[skittish doe]

I respectfully disagree with the OP on his first point. I think that submission is indeed a gift.

If a gift goes unopened, does this fact deem it no longer a gift? I think not. My opinion is that it remains a gift, even an unopened gift.

If a gift means nothing to the recipient, does that mean it was meaningless to the giver? My own opinion is that the value of this gift from the giver’s standpoint does not change according to the value placed on it by the recipient. (Hopefully however, the giver will choose a more suited recipient when giving his/her gifts, in their future.)

I also hold the opinion that Dominance is a gift. Not everyone values it as such, nor should everyone. Some gifts are simply not yours to open. In addition, I think that most folks can see that they are only responsive (opening such gifts) only to a certain type – their own ‘type’ of partner – in this dovetailed dynamic.

This part I do agree with:

(…) a symbiotic relationship in which both offer something vital to the other, meeting a need that is crucial to who each individual is, and that the real gift is in sharing yourselves honestly, openly and completely without regard to which side of the dominance/submissive coin you happen to be on.

I see it as an exchange of gifts. Gifts that both sides find the need to *give* a certain piece of themselves, and also the need to treasure a different piece, from the other. Gifts, no less.

Those are my thoughts. Thank you to all who have shared theirs on this interesting topic. I value other’s opinions and look forward to reading more.

[Crushers Rose]

Master Sergeant...The fact that it's a challenge and a responsibility doesn't negate it being a gift for One to be worthy of first. To say, "There is a great deal more to the D/s relationship than the servitude of the sub to the Dom." almost sounds like you may think that your half of the dynamic is belittled and not given enough credit? To the contrary, I think it deserves quite a lot of credit...but it also sounds as if that statement may be belittling servitude as well. Does that mean that girl gives you her "servitude".. and then that's it? She's given all she has to give and there's nothing left for her to accomplish? I wonder sometimes whether some understand the extent of what "servitude" entails. It is an ongoing thing, and encompasses so many ways of being of "service". There is a reason that submission is not for the weak. Is her servitude and submission any less valuable than your Dominance? No. In my opinion they are both a gift. Not only do I want to know that the Man I serve is worthy of my service.. but I want to know that he deems me worthy of serving Him. His Dominance is also a gift, and one that should never been taken for granted.

Desperado.. Not only do I consider submission and Dominance, both, to be a gift.. but I would argue that, even without each other, they mean quite a bit more than "very little". I am slave. I am not slave because I jumped up one day and decided that it looked interesting. It is, innately, who and what I am. I am not any less a slave (or submissive) if I am alone. Does an artist cease to be an artist, simply because they are not currently holding a paint brush? If I were unowned, I would still be slave... it is who and what I am. Being unowned would simply mean that I currently have no Master/Dominant to serve. It doesn't even mean that I cease to grow in my submission, because to learn is to grow.. and I grew in leaps and bounds before I met my Master. Without the Dominance of Another my submission would still mean so much that I would still be looking for ways to nurture it (to learn and grow), thereby making myself an even an even better "me" for the One who would be worthy of my submission.

[Master Sergeant]

C. Rose
You make good points and defend your view well. Submission is a gift and the hardest thing for a Dom to do is to simply accept the gift of submission while both looking and listening for the needs of the sub in order to nurture the continued growth and satisfaction of both members. I respect your feedback.

[Master Sergeant]

Crushers Rose: I respect your feedback / response but, I need to clarify. I do not in any way "Belittle" or make slight of a subs admittance of their desire to submit. I stand on my opinion that once stated in an open and frank discussion between two people, the challenge is to study, learn and provide the optimal environment to which the sub has so courageously expressed a desire to serve. This can only be accomplished by accepting the "Newly Revealed" desire of the sub. To say okay and do little to nothing toward learning to become a knowledgeable Dom is a recipe for failure on the Doms part. Prior to divulging the desire to be submissive to their (His / Her) partner, a prospective or potential sub has kept this desire a secret. I do not and did not say weak or unworthy, nor lesser valued. I valued my sub before her expressed desire to serve. I value her and her need to serve at an elevated level. I simply state that the role of Dom is to grow in order to meet the subs need. Good conversation on the topic.

[Solis]

I guess I think of "gift" as having two distinct meanings. One is something like "a natural talent or ability," as in "she has a gift for story-telling." In that sense, it's something given by nature (or some divinity) to that person. The other meaning is something like "a thing given willingly."

If we assume that the radiant doe has the gift of story-telling, that doesn't mean that she's compelled to gift a story to every soul she meets. Indeed, if she did we'd assume that she was either slightly crazy or Irish. And so her choice to share a story with me, particularly, seems to say that she has seen something in me that might be enriched by something she could offer. (As is surely the case.) I'm not sure how else I'd describe it than as a gift. In giving the gift, she creates ... or perhaps shifts the terms of ... the relationship between us.

It's the element of choosing that, to my mind, makes it a gift. If some poor creature had no control - she flung herself at every plausibly dom/me-like creature, crying "take me!" - it wouldn't be a gift. It would be a pathology. But that's surely not the case here.

I would probably differ from the sweet rose's use of terms, though mildly. In my mind, dominant and submissive are terms that describe personal characteristics. Ways of approaching the world. ("I parallel park dominantly.") Master and slave are terms that describe one's status in a relationship. And so rose without Crusher (I assume that's His name, apologies if I've done so in error) would still be submissive but would not be slave. Likewise for Crusher without rose.

As ever,

S.

[Crushers Rose]

Doe is rather radiant, isn't she?

I think that I acquaint the difference between submissive and slave as being the depth of need and the level of submission. (Although I have an extreme dislike for any implication that either a submissive or a slave is less valuable or more admirable than the other, and for that reason maybe the word "level" is not a good one to use.) There are bottoms, submissives, and slaves. I know that, in a relationship, I am not going to find fulfillment in anything less than giving of myself to the depth of slave. That need was far from non-existent when I was single. Yes, as a slave, I am submissive.. ergo, my submission is what I'm gifting to Maestro (Crusher). I probably should have stopped to clarify that I used the orientation of "slave" simply because it's how I personally identify.. but any one of the submissive orientations is still "gifting" or giving of themselves in a submissive capacity throughout a power exchange, whether it be a single BDSM encounter of a casual sort or a long term relationship. On that same token, my being submissive doesn't mean that I approach everything in life submissively, so I would still tend to make the same differentiation. I would agree that dominant and submissive are also ways to approach things in life, but they are also an orientation. I've often stated that "I only bend for One". There are many things, that I do approach or handle in a dominant way.. the management of my home and children for example, or the management position that I previously held in a business. I tend to consider myself a strong woman who is capable of leading where needed.. but within my personal relationship, I choose and prefer not to..and instead hand or "gift" that control to Another.

[Crushers Rose]

Thank you, Sir.

[OddCupcake]

I feel it's a gift in the sense the sub has put their trust in you and is willing to submit knowing you will not really hurt them. It's a lot of trust to put into someone.

[Master Sergeant]

I agree with your statement and add that more than trust alone, there is a level of "Hope" involved. The hope that the expressed desire to be sub to a Dom or potential Dom further reflects a desire to have this deep secret is accepted by the other partner and, rejection or judgement is not the follow on process to face.