Is it really this bad??????

[thir]

And in my opinion, a large step in that direction would be achieved by eliminating religion from the public sphere. All of the major religions, and most of the minor ones, are patriarchal in nature. They preach the domination of men over women. That has to change. And in some degree, it is changing. Almost every religious organization in the US is losing members, mostly the young. It's one of the reasons for some of the more inane (and insane) bloviating going on by religious and political leaders regarding the rights of women: their belief systems are crumbling in the face of the modern world, and they are striking out blindly to defend their Iron Age mythologies. Sadly, women and minorities are the primary targets of these strikes.

[/quote]

No doubt about that, although many women in these religions are trying to reform them, they are a minority.

EPs are taking over, trying to promote the same ideas in the name of biology.

[leo9]

When I read Rodgers' rants about how unfair it was that women wouldn't fuck him, my thought was that on a smaller scale, a great many adolescents feel this sense of oppression and grievance. All those women are cruelly tantalizing him by looking hot, and the books and magazines say all those other guys are getting it, so why isn't he? It's not FAIR! Most young men grow out of that mindset in a year or three even if they don't get laid; being stuck in, effectively, a 16-year-old headspace seems to have been part of Rodgers' problem.

The other thing that struck me is that it seems to have been mostly an accident that his instability focussed on anger at women, because he happened to have struck across male supremacist sites when he was looking for a target for his infantile rage at the world for not giving him everything he wanted. Given his demonstrated gross racism, he could just as easily have been drawn to racist sites and ended up targeting blacks and Asians.

So I think it's misleading to treat him as some kind of indicator of a bigger trend of misogyny. There is a victim-posing movement of men who feel oppressed and bullied because they've lost the right to push women around, just as there are similar factions of whites and Christians feeling like victims because they're no longer top dog, but Rodgers wasn't in some way the cutting edge of it; he was a random incident.

[thir]

When I read Rodgers' rants about how unfair it was that women wouldn't fuck him, my thought was that on a smaller scale, a great many adolescents feel this sense of oppression and grievance. All those women are cruelly tantalizing him by looking hot, and the books and magazines say all those other guys are getting it, so why isn't he? It's not FAIR! Most young men grow out of that mindset in a year or three even if they don't get laid; being stuck in, effectively, a 16-year-old headspace seems to have been part of Rodgers' problem.

He is not the only one. Much of the campus rapes and instances where young men seem to think rape is fun and tape it and put it on the net seems to imply a similar line of thinking. In one instance they felt the woman who went to the police was a whore of a spoil sport and that she broke the rules, somehow.

The other thing that struck me is that it seems to have been mostly an accident that his instability focussed on anger at women, because he happened to have struck across male supremacist sites when he was looking for a target for his infantile rage at the world for not giving him everything he wanted. Given his demonstrated gross racism, he could just as easily have been drawn to racist sites and ended up targeting blacks and Asians.

So, if he had targeted blacks or Asians, would he not have been called a crazy racist??

So I think it's misleading to treat him as some kind of indicator of a bigger trend of misogyny. There is a victim-posing movement of men who feel oppressed and bullied because they've lost the right to push women around, just as there are similar factions of whites and Christians feeling like victims because they're no longer top dog, but Rodgers wasn't in some way the cutting edge of it; he was a random incident.[/QUOTE]

[Thorne]

but Rodgers wasn't in some way the cutting edge of it; he was a random incident.

It's true that he was not the cutting edge. There have been many more instances of misogyny both before and after his rant. He simply went further than most others are willing to go. But he is indicative of a deeper problem festering beneath the surface of society. If you dig into those MRA sites he frequented you will find many other young men who think what he did was right and just, and wish they had the guts to do it themselves.

And, as thir points out, all of this is fostering a deeper culture of "rape isn't so bad as long as nobody gets killed" thinking. Especially when it involves sports heroes. I find it absolutely disgusting that entire swaths of so-called good people will willingly degrade the victim of a crime, even when reams of evidence exists to prove the crime, in order to preserve the "good name" of a local football star, or basketball wizard, or some other group of young men who were "just being boys." I was a boy once, long ago and far away, and that kind of behavior would not, and still should not, be tolerated.

In my opinion, those who are held to higher esteem should also be held to higher standards.

[thir]

In my opinion, those who are held to higher esteem should also be held to higher standards.

I cannot agree with that, I never understood in my Danish head why sports stars for instance have to publicly apologize if they have been found out to have an affair, and they apologize for 'disappointing' their fans. Their private lives are no concern of any fans! Same goes for politicians and other people in the public eye.

But, I certainly do not think they should get away with being rapists either!!! Same rules for all.

[Thorne]

Their private lives are no concern of any fans! Same goes for politicians and other people in the public eye.

I agree, to a point. But such people have placed themselves into the public sphere, and the way they conduct their private lives is indicative of their character. For politicians, especially, who are elected to represent the voters, their private lives are almost certainly more important to understand than the public persona they affect. Sports stars, music stars, movie stars, etc. are all voluntarily putting themselves into the public eye, and a certain degree of private scrutiny is inevitable.

But, I certainly do not think they should get away with being rapists either!!! Same rules for all.

Same rules for all is certainly a lofty ideal. Unfortunately we seldom see the famous, rich and powerful being held accountable to the same level as others. And when they use their fame, wealth and power to escape accountability they should be held in even more disrepute. But too many of their fans are all too willing to allow them to do horrific things simply because they are famous. I contend that, if they want to be seen to be so much better than the average person, they should hold themselves, and be held by the average person, to a higher standard.