@leo9 - I oversimplified when I said infiltration. I did not mean James Bond so much as informers like those you alluded to on the outer circle. Although it is secret there have been statements that give us indications. In the USA it has been admitted there is high (almost total) reliance on electronic surveillance (and torture haha). In the UK (because we are poor haha) there is more emphasis on human menthods like informers.

My point was that controls which infringe on civil liberties are of neglible value and there is no accountabily. That said there is value to governments in keeping fear in the nation and giving public the impression the government is protecting them. I heard a CIA expert talking about fear and how government uses it by raising then lowering alert levels.

That said civil rights groups are probably making too much of it. If the government is listening in when you talk to you email your girlfriend or phone for a pizza so what. If they track my surfing habits and know I'm a perv so what. For the people they want to know about the authorities will do it anyway legal or not. Hell the newpapers hack phones so lets not be surprised if the CIA do. Its not good I agree but sadly I see it as inevitable as technology makes it easier.

Sadly the most effective method in combatting terrorism is not considered, That is to look at and remove or reduce the cause. The 911 terrorists stated US support for Israel and meddling in Middle East politics was a main reason. The invasion of Iraq has not reduced terrorism, it has helped spawn IS and given us Paris and Brussels attacks, The encouragement of armed rebellion in Syria has led to mass migration into Europe for refugees and terrorists.

The sad truth is government doesn't really care about terrorism and if anything likes it. It means big fat contracts are given out in return for campaign contributions and directorships.