Payback

[Rosie]

I am looking for a little advice here, please. Although I have been married for years, it's only lately my husband has agreed to try BDSM. He told me recently, that the last time we played, he whipped me intentionally to hurt, because, "He wanted to get back at me." At the time, I wasn't even aware that I had done anything wrong, and his admission kind of freaked me out.

What will he do next time he's mad at me? Now, I don't know what to do. Under normal circumstances I do trust him; he isn't violent and doesn't have a temper - but I'm nervous about allowing him to tie me up or do anything more serious.

Any suggestions, please?

[slo18]

to get back at u ? that just doesnt sound right. talk to him and find out what he felt a need to get revenge for. talk this out and try to get him to bring up anything else he might feel a need to get back at u for, because revenge has no bussness in a scene.

[bearbeast]

Hiya Rosie

I agree with slo18, and for my penny's worth any type of BDSM "play"
you have to trust your partner/mistress/master

do you have a safty system in place

have you disscussed what you would like and dislike

never "Play" when there's bad feelings, as you know, it may get out of hand

before starting any "play" you must talk honstly, some partners find it difficuilt to give to others what they want, and need time to get there heads round it. May be he can't bringing himself to be that part you desire all I can say is spend plenty of time over a bottle of wine and a relaxed atmostpher and talk, maybe you'll come up with something you both like

hope you both work things out and have fun doing so,

all the best
take care
bearbeast

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Any suggestions, please?

Just one: Don't do another DS thing with him, ever!


Ask yourself the following questions and answer honestly:

Do I trust myself to be helpless with this man?

Do I trust this man's judgment and compassion?

Do I trust this man to communicate his feelings to me before he lashes out at me again?


If you answer no to any of the above, then you should not be practicing and kind of BDSM with your partner, husband or no.

[His_pita]

I totally agree with what has been said to you already. My goodness that would scare me terribly!

Your Dom's first obligation is to keep you safe at all times and to never break the trust that has been established. If he does that then there is no hope that you will ever be able to be fully submissive to him, because you are going to be on guard for what he will do next.

If he needs to punish you then it's his responsibility to sit you down and explain exactly why you are to be punished. He is to make the punishment fit the crime.

"Getting back at you" sounds like a Dom that isn't in control of himself so how can he control his submissive?

Take care of yourself first and foremost.

[her_Joe]

...and I'm agreeing with the others, too.

Part of the "fun" of BDSM is the feelings of complete trust and, contradicting it, the feeling of risk. You willingly render yourself helpless and vulnerable because of your trust, and your feelings of vulnerability are sort of like fear because they are risks you would never run with someone if it weren't for your trust in the person who is the Top.

I know the sentence was convoluted, and I apologize -- what I mean is that if you don't completely trust your husband, then to allow yourself to do a scene with him ends up with you, at best, feeling like a fool.

If a person says they are a Dom but asks you if you are trusting enough to play Russian roulette, say No.

her_Joe

[Ruby]

Rosie,

I'd be freaked out, too. Anger/revenge has no place in the bedroom or the playroom.

That type of payback behavior doesn't belong in a marriage, d/s play, or anywhere else with someone you sleep with and share you life and home.

Great advice has been given.

TG's questions may be tough to ask yourself, but you should take a moment to honestly answer them.

If you want to continue, then I second the talk and find out what's going on before you play , if ever, with him again.

Loving BDSM or sex play is not about payback. As your top/dom he's got a lot of responsiblity to care for you and your needs. If he can't handle the responsiblity, then don't play with him.

Do your best to educate him & get him to educate himself on what you're seeking. If he doesn't want or understand how to play safe, sane and consensual, then do what you need to do to protect yourself.

Anyone want to suggest some good articles and links for Rosie? TG's written lots on these forums. You may want to pick a few you like and review them with the hubby as part of you ongoing education process with him.

To your success and a safe loving partner,

Ruby

[Rosie]

Thank you very much for all your thoughtful comments and helpful advice.

slo18

to get back at u ? that just doesnt sound right. talk to him and find out what he felt a need to get revenge for. talk this out and try to get him to bring up anything else he might feel a need to get back at u for, because revenge has no bussness in a scene.

I agree, it doesn't. When I tackled him about it, he said that he didn't really mean what he had said.


bearbeast

do you have a safty system in place

have you disscussed what you would like and dislike

never "Play" when there's bad feelings, as you know, it may get out of hand

before starting any "play" you must talk honstly, some partners find it difficuilt to give to others what they want, and need time to get there heads round it. May be he can't bringing himself to be that part you desire all I can say is spend plenty of time over a bottle of wine and a relaxed atmostpher and talk, maybe you'll come up with something you both like

Not easy with kids in the house, but I understand what you are getting at. We have discussed likes/dislikes, and I honestly believe he would stop if I told him to. But I know he has issues with what we do. He was brought up to never hit a girl, and to find that he liked doing it, was very hard on him.

BDSM Tourgide

Just one: Don't do another DS thing with him, ever!

Ask yourself the following questions and answer honestly:

Do I trust myself to be helpless with this man?

Do I trust this man's judgment and compassion?

Do I trust this man to communicate his feelings to me before he lashes out at me again?


If you answer no to any of the above, then you should not be practicing and kind of BDSM with your partner, husband or no.

Ouch - that's tough. But one of the reasons I keep coming back to this board is your matter-of-fact advice to this way of life, so when that advice is aimed at me - I ought to pay attention. I do need to seriously consider the answers to your questions. Until recently I would have said I felt safe with him, but now I'm not so sure.

His pita

totally agree with what has been said to you already. My goodness that would scare me terribly!

Your Dom's first obligation is to keep you safe at all times and to never break the trust that has been established. If he does that then there is no hope that you will ever be able to be fully submissive to him, because you are going to be on guard for what he will do next.

If he needs to punish you then it's his responsibility to sit you down and explain exactly why you are to be punished. He is to make the punishment fit the crime.

It scared me, too. He always says he puts my safety first. In this instance he hadn't told me he was upset with me, and I didn't know until much later that I was being punished.

Her Joe

Part of the "fun" of BDSM is the feelings of complete trust and, contradicting it, the feeling of risk. You willingly render yourself helpless and vulnerable because of your trust, and your feelings of vulnerability are sort of like fear because they are risks you would never run with someone if it weren't for your trust in the person who is the Top.

I feel torn because I should trust him. We've been married twenty years and he's never raised a hand to me. (Well, outside of this type of activity, that is) And he can't understand why this one incident is such a big deal to me.

Ruby

I'd be freaked out, too. Anger/revenge has no place in the bedroom or the playroom.

That type of payback behavior doesn't belong in a marriage, d/s play, or anywhere else with someone you sleep with and share you life and home.

TG's questions may be tough to ask yourself, but you should take a moment to honestly answer them.

If you want to continue, then I second the talk and find out what's going on before you play , if ever, with him again.

Loving BDSM or sex play is not about payback. As your top/dom he's got a lot of responsiblity to care for you and your needs. If he can't handle the responsiblity, then don't play with him.

Do your best to educate him & get him to educate himself on what you're seeking. If he doesn't want or understand how to play safe, sane and consensual, then do what you need to do to protect yourself.

I do want to continue with him, and I do love him. The interest in BDSM is mine; he says he does it just for me, and he doesn't want to read up about it. It's taken me all of our married life to get to this stage - he wouldn't even indulge in spanking before this - but I know he enjoys it if he could just let himself get into it. I don't want to go back to vanilla but now, I'm scared to proceed, and in a way, it's harder that he's my husband because I want him to need the same things I do.

TG's questions are valid, but the answers are not ones I particularly like. If I can't play with him, I lose the sensations I crave, and I don't want to be without him.

Looks like I have a lot of hard questions ahead.

[Pandora's Box]

Agreed about a dom never using revenge as a motivator in a scene.

However, what about a non-dom trying to get into it? I can see where it might help him to get to that point. Nothing I'd trust for scening into the future and nothing I'd want to be on the receiving ends of. But I can see it being used as a means to an ends for a non-sadist to give a masochist what they want pain-wise.

The one thing that does really concern me is that your husband was even looking for revenge in the first place, but never discussed with you any issue he had to begin with.

[Rosie]

So you are hurt emotionally that he lashed out at you like that but you enjoyed it before you knew that he was lashing out due to his unhappiness and anger?

That's what I'm saying. You enjoyed what he did before. The context has changed but I'll bet that was one of the best sessions you ever had with him before the context changed. So I'd say that you could channel it if you could get past this hurt.

You are most welcome. I don't have a huge amount of experience in BDSM but I do have some with pulling a husband into it when he claims he doesn't want to go there.

I'm sorry the three sessions had nothing in them to please you. It makes me wonder if he isn't trying to kill your hunger for this sort of play by making you do what he knows you do NOT like. I can see a guy doing that. Give her enough of her own medicine and she'll quit wanting it but in my case he would just possibly drive me to someone who would do the things I had a deep need for. I've been tempted to do so a along. It's only my love and trust with him that keeps me from doing that. If I thought he were playing those sorts of games with me, it would piss me off, possibly bad enough to be selfish enough to go for what I deeply feel driven to.

Good luck to you!

I'll be thinking about you.

*HUGS*

Thanks! It wasn't the best session we'd ever had, it was nice, but I had enjoyed what he was doing. I don't think anger like that should be channelled - I'd rather not play with somebody who has so little regard for me.

I don't think he was trying to kill my hunger - I think that he just didn't consider my needs at all.

Just saw this thread. Tourguide is correct. What he did breaks all the rules for a dom. Severly.

This is no little thing. To hit your submissive in anger is so basicly wrong that it almost defies description. You do not ever punish when you are angry or scene with a motive like revenge. This goes beyond all common sense.
He has shown that he is not to be trusted. This is not a game when it gets like that.

This is my thinking too. I felt really betrayed by his behaviour. I do try to do anything that he wants, and as far as I was aware I had done nothing wrong, so it came as a bit of a shock.
Agreed about a dom never using revenge as a motivator in a scene.

However, what about a non-dom trying to get into it? I can see where it might help him to get to that point. Nothing I'd trust for scening into the future and nothing I'd want to be on the receiving ends of. But I can see it being used as a means to an ends for a non-sadist to give a masochist what they want pain-wise.

The one thing that does really concern me is that your husband was even looking for revenge in the first place, but never discussed with you any issue he had to begin with.

Agreed. How do I know when he is going to be angry with me and therefore not safe to scene with if he doesn't tell me?

[Barton]

Remember, the only power a dom should have is the power that his submissive gives to him.

[Pandora's Box]

Thank you, for this thoughtful response to my question. You have given me a lot of questions, and a lot of suggestions that are most helpful. I do try to please him; he said he would play like this but he didn't want to do just what I wanted, which was a fair comment, but we've had at least three sessions that were just horrible - there was nothing in them to please me at all.

I'd like to add to this if I may...

A good scene includes elements that both of you enjoy. And that comes with communication and learning each other. I've had these discussions before a scene and even had to communicate during a scene so things could be adjusted. Communication is literally the end all be all for bdsm.

I don't know how selfish of a lover your husband is on the whole. If he isn't a selfish lover then you should be able to get him to understand the whole give and take thing when it comes to sex and fun and games - including elements in the scene that both of you enjoy. If he is a selfish lover... oysh. Then you've got to start from square one.

Agreed. How do I know when he is going to be angry with me and therefore not safe to scene with if he doesn't tell me?

Again, that all goes back to communication. I know it can be difficult and even embarrassing, but it's very important to be specific when talking about bdsm. One of the things you can try is making it a special talk with some ground rules suitable to your personalities and relationship. i.e. no yelling, if feelings get hurt take a few moments time out... whatever works for you guys.

But more to the point, the danger is that he gets carried away with the feelings of anger and grows to like it. That's a situation you can't allow.

[Rosie]

Remember, the only power a dom should have is the power that his submissive gives to him.

Sounds simple on paper - or cyber-paper - but its harder to negotiate when emotions come into play. But I understand what you're getting at - thank you.

A good scene includes elements that both of you enjoy. And that comes with communication and learning each other. I've had these discussions before a scene and even had to communicate during a scene so things could be adjusted. Communication is literally the end all be all for bdsm.

I don't know how selfish of a lover your husband is on the whole. If he isn't a selfish lover then you should be able to get him to understand the whole give and take thing when it comes to sex and fun and games - including elements in the scene that both of you enjoy. If he is a selfish lover... oysh. Then you've got to start from square one.
Again, that all goes back to communication. I know it can be difficult and even embarrassing, but it's very important to be specific when talking about bdsm. One of the things you can try is making it a special talk with some ground rules suitable to your personalities and relationship. i.e. no yelling, if feelings get hurt take a few moments time out... whatever works for you guys.

Hmm. Somewhere along the line communication has taken a back seat - not just in bdsm, but in our whole relationship. But we're trying… at least I think we are. After that incident, I'm not certain anymore that he has my best interests at heart.

But more to the point, the danger is that he gets carried away with the feelings of anger and grows to like it. That's a situation you can't allow.

Now that's a frightening thought. ..

[Pandora's Box]

Hmm. Somewhere along the line communication has taken a back seat - not just in bdsm, but in our whole relationship. But we're trying… at least I think we are. After that incident, I'm not certain anymore that he has my best interests at heart.

If you are not sure then you need to cease all bdsm activity until you and your husband have a chance to work on your relationship. You both need to be absolutely sure that you're communicating with each other. Active expression and listening going back and forth.

I don't know if your husband has your best interests at heart. But then I can't say I know if you have your husband's best interests at heart either. Not that you mean him ill, but it's a fine line to walk - balancing our own interests with those of our partner.

The important thing right now is re-establishing the lines of communication. All else comes after that.

[Rosie]

If you are not sure then you need to cease all bdsm activity until you and your husband have a chance to work on your relationship. You both need to be absolutely sure that you're communicating with each other. Active expression and listening going back and forth.

I don't know if your husband has your best interests at heart. But then I can't say I know if you have your husband's best interests at heart either. Not that you mean him ill, but it's a fine line to walk - balancing our own interests with those of our partner.

The important thing right now is re-establishing the lines of communication. All else comes after that.

Agreed.