Where have the good Doms gone?

[Master Godfather]

Looking for a good Dom? Have not been able to find one yet and keep seeing others get collared? Let's take a look at why that may be. So let's get started. (Thanks to Gloria Brame in part for this)

Stand in front of a mirror and take a look at yourself. Can you look yourself straight in the eye and say that you are happy with who you are? If the person in the mirror was someone else, would they be someone you would be proud to call your friend, or someone you would avoid? If you were dominant, is the person in the mirror someone who has the maturity, self assurance, willingness and ability to provide you with the type of service and submission you desire, or are they so needy that they require constant reassurance, direction and correction?

Now step back, strip off anything you have on and take another look at yourself. Take a good look.

Are you pleased, or at least satisfied, with your appearance? Are you comfortable enough with the controllable features of your appearance that you could present yourself, naked, unembarrassed, to a Dom? There is no reason to be a Bo Derek or Charles Atlas. Most experienced Doms are more interested in the mental than the physical. But, you owe it to yourself if to no one else, to maintain your physical condition at a level where you are comfortable with yourself.

Let's look a little closer. Do you present a neat, well- groomed appearance or do you look disheveled or sloppy? How about your pubes and body hair? Is your body hair the type that adds interest, dimension or form to your body? Are you shaved or trimmed, present a better appearance? Are your pubics hiding or obstructing your assets from full view or do they help show them off?

All right. You've admired yourself in that mirror long enough. Everything good so far?--or did you find a few areas that may need a little work? Part of a submissive's job is to make their Dominant look good. Making sure you present yourself in the best fashion by looking your best is just as important as efficiently performing the duties of your service. If you look a mess, how does that reflect on your Dom? Not very well.

If you're not in service but are looking to be, what image of your service are you projecting to any potential Dominant if your personal appearance is sloppy? If you can't take care of yourself, how are you going to take care of Them?

That's the outer you. Now let's talk about the inner you.

Being a submissive in a BDSM relationship is not the way to resolve self esteem issues, and more importantly, it is not a way to avoid facing them. Knowledgeable Dominants do not want submissives who are doormats or who consider themselves worthless. They want someone who can stay three steps ahead of Them, knowing what They need and having it ready for Them before They even realize They need it. In other words, someone with intelligence, and the ability to use that intelligence, requiring only minimal direction. A caring, loving, devoted partner, who takes pleasure and pride in knowing Their needs and how to fulfill them.

You can't do that if you have issues concerning your own self-worth. Your Dominant may be able to provide valuable assistance in your efforts to overcome a low self-image, but you have to be the one who wants to make it happen. No one else, including the most skilled Dominant known to man, can do it for you or give you the incentive to start doing it for yourself. You need to feel good about yourself, confident in your abilities and comfortable with the person you are before you try giving yourself in service to another.

Once you're at a point where you feel good about both your inner and outer self, ready to renew your search for that for that special person to serve, it's time to take a look at how you are presenting yourself in public.
How do you act while in the chat room? Are you courteous and well mannered? Do you know the proper protocols and rules for the chat room?
If you don't know, find out.

There are a variety of posts available that discuss expected submissive behavior, and there are a number of members here who know traditionally
what is expected or appropriate, try asking them.

But here are some basic guidelines.

Demeanor? Did you act in a way that would cause you to be viewed unfavorably or that caused embarrassment? If you had been with a Dominant would it have caused embarrassment for Him? Were you loud and obnoxious in the chat room? Did you try to be the center of attention? Do you obviously cruise anyone you perceive may possibly be a Dominant, Dom wannabee, and try to seduce them or get yourself involved in some private chat for a quickie?

If someone was to observe you over the course of an evening, would they get the impression that your main interest is just getting your want of play or sex filled? Would they get that impression because you're the kind that behaves appropriately, respectfully approaches a perceived Dominant and waiting to be recognized? Are you pouring out a flood of "yes Sirs" and "no Sirs" while laying on sugary thick, a childish little girl or boy act complete with the cutest, shy little smile you can muster, until you think you have Him appropriately impressed to the point where you can inquire about the possibility of play or just sex? If that one refuses, do you immediately run off to the next Dom, continuing that pattern until you finally get one to say yes?

Have you answered yes to most of these questions but are still wondering why you can't find a good Dominant?

Being a submissive for play or sex is one thing. They are a dime a dozen. Since getting their needs satisfied is their main objective, anyone who can provide any portion of that need, however minute or superficial, will do, if that's all that is available. Whether or not they play with a knowledgeable, respected Dominant, whose involvement in the BDSM community is a lifestyle choice which influences every aspect of His life, is not their most important consideration when choosing a play partner. He's a top, has a dick, is available, he'll do.

Since those kind always seem to find someone to play with, it can give the impression that they must be some sort of great submissive in high demand. It can be frustrating, seeing them time after time, hooking up with what looks like a multitude of Doms, while time after time, you log off after only being approached by the obnoxious Dom who kept making unwelcome attempts all night.

What you didn't notice is that a couple Doms did find some interesting subs that night. They were the ones you may not have noticed. Not necessarily the best, but they didn't try to pretend they were something they were not. They were not interested in merely settling for whatever play they could get, especially if it meant just having sex with someone who calls themselves a Dominant they politely declined the advances of the wannabees.

They would have been the ones standing off to the side of the room, posture erect, hands behind their back. Their stance indicated the confidence and pride attained from the level of service they knew they were able to provide. They would have waited patiently, carefully watching, hoping a Dom might indicate interest and permission given to be approached. By their appearance and behavior, they showed themselves to be experienced, knowledgeable submissives. That's what got them noticed. That's what attracts experienced, knowledgeable Dominants.

Where are all the good Dominants? They're off with the good submissives. Don't rush right in feeling if you don't have a Dom you are not a good sub. It could be you if you take the time to learn just exactly what it means, and how to present yourself you will fins yourself getting noticed by a good Dom.


GF

[denuseri]

Yet another well wrought work of wisdom.

[ukMC]

I totally agree with you Master Godfather I think quite a lot of Dominants and submissives ought to read your post and learn from it.

[shayna{L_D}]

i agree.

[naomi57 {ukMC}]

i totally agree in what you say Sir in i am a sub but i do have a loving Master who is ukMasterc and who is my partner also

[bip0lar]

What scared me was this underlying hint of wanting perfection. I'm not perfect, my body's not perfect, my self-esteem is not perfect, hell; my life isn't perfect [but then again, nobody's life is perfect]. If all my dominant wants is for me to make him look good then i'm afraid i can't do that. I can make him feel good because of who i am and how much i feel the need to please, but that's about it--i can't be shown off--at least not because of my body. I can be shown off because of being special little me, and if i'm not special to my dominant then i'm still special to myself.
i never wondered why i have not yet been collared by a dominant. long story short, this is not why i'm in the library--or the chat for that matter. i enjoy the information i get from this marvellous place and all the good people willing to share it; i've made virtual friends in the chat room with whom i discuss serious things and have chit-chats.
i don't follow protocol in the sense that i capitalise every 'sir' and 'dominant' and 'you', practically because i find it doesn't show more respect than usual- it ends up being mechanical; one uses it for everybody. I let my respect for the people i feel it show through what i say, not how i say it.
lastly, after reading the post, i went through the 'oh my god i'm a terrible sub' phase and got over it. i know i'm not a terrible submissive because it's who i am--and i'm not a terrible person. i'm a good person, thus a good submissive--and even though i am not perfect i'm sure that when the One comes, he'll help me become as perfect as he wants me to be.

by all means, please don't take this as an attack to what you said Master Godfather, i agree in the sense that of course the 'good' dominants have gone [and are going] for 'good' submissives, but the fact that one may clash with what you highlighted in your post does not necessarily make them less good.

[MacGuffin]

I will be devils advocate again and say I dont agree. Here's why.........

Looking for a good Dom? Have not been able to find one yet and keep seeing others get collared? Let's take a look at why that may be.
Yes and it may be a lot of other things as well like it takes time or there are more subs than (good) doms here.

Stand in front of a mirror and take a look at yourself. Can you look yourself straight in the eye and say that you are happy with who you are?
Is there anybody in the world who can. Only those with a narcissus complex or living in denial perhaps. I'm not saying one shouldn't be aware of one's own flaws but no need to blame yourself. You are who you are and for sure there is somebody out there who likes who you are,

Now step back, strip off anything you have on and take another look at yourself. Take a good look.
You lost me on the need to strip given it is a net world. Surely thats the beauty of the net, a big untidy slob like me has hope of finding love, happiness and even sex. Please don't tell me I have to lay off the beer and lose the gut to get laid?

How about your pubes and body hair? Is your body hair the type that adds interest, dimension or form to your body?
What has a girls pubes got to do with finding an online Dom. (I like a forest down there anyway and if anybody is going to cut the trees it will be me)

If you're not in service but are looking to be, what image of your service are you projecting to any potential Dominant if your personal appearance is sloppy?
Readers may be interested to contrast this view with those on this thread
http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=17101

Part of a submissive's job is to make their Dominant look good.
Personally I don't like to look good I like to be good. And I want to be good for my qualities not those of my sub. Have you noticed how aging movie stars always have stunning young model girlfriends. I know what I think of those movie stars wanting their woman to make them look good. I'll take the overweight hairy sub and then people know it must be true love.

Knowledgeable Dominants do not want submissives who are doormats or who consider themselves worthless.
Some do, why else the obedience training and use of humiliation as a training tool. Again you are telling subs what Doms want and I am saying it ain't always so. Different doms look for different characteristics. The key point again is compatibity, finding the dom whose interests match the subs.

They want someone who can stay three steps ahead of Them, knowing what They need and having it ready for Them before They even realize
Not me. I like to be three steps ahead of the sub. Thats how I can control and dominate. Always being ahead of the game.

Do you know the proper protocols and rules for the chat room?
If you are suggesting here protocols like calling Doms "Sir" I am one of the Doms who doesn't like being called sir. I may be unusual in this respect and will probably explain my reasoning (Sir maintains distance and I do not want to be distant in an informal chat) in a new thread.

Have you answered yes to most of these questions but are still wondering why you can't find a good Dominant?
I would say don't change who you are. Be your natural self and you will find your natural partner. To misrepresent yourself to attact a dom will only result in getting a dom who you are not truly compatible with and you can guess how long that will last.

Being a submissive for play or sex is one thing. They are a dime a dozen.
Really? Where where where, tell me tell me tell me please. (hey what's life without a little humour)

They would have been the ones standing off to the side of the room, posture erect, hands behind their back.
Maybe, maybe not. In an online chat situation the quiet Dom in the cormer who does not contribute to chat could very well be the lurker. I sometimes wonder how dominant a dom is if, either through shyness or lack of social skills, is silent and does not contribute to chat in a chat room.

It could be you if you take the time to learn just exactly what it means, and how to present yourself you will fins yourself getting noticed by a good Dom
This is saying a sub has to (misre)present herself to attract the dom. I say just be your normal self and if that's the type the dom likes he will notice and come to you. Dont make a cosmetic change just to attract guys. Many guys, including me, preferal naturals to plastic


Clearly I am coming from the other end of the spectrum from Godfather. I respect his views but posted because I think subs should hear both opposing views and then come to their own conclusions.

[AdrianaAurora]

Where have the good Doms gone?

I married the last one, .

[denuseri]

I would also like to thank MacGuffin and Bipolar for thier wisdom.

There are many different ways to look at it.

Sometimes appearences are decieving.

I would like to say this:

The girl that is in the middle of the room, sometimes the center of attention, who apears overly flirtasious or forward, who apears to be "working the crowd", may be preforming multiple purposes by design, more so than just trying to be a self serving slut in the pursuit of cybersex.

It is dificult not to brand that which we misunderstand becuase our perspective is of course limited by our own experiences.

[Master Godfather]

bip0lar,

It seems that in writing this I did indeed make it sound such. As well that if as a sub you have not found a Dom after a while that the problem may be with the you. That was not my intention at all and any that take offense as such I deeply regret that. For those that have read my other posts know I am here and vocal strictly to help the subs. I am not looking for one my self and posing as the Knight in shining armour to attract one.
At this point I don't feel the need to edit or alter my post, just know that my intention was not to make the subs feel worse about their position or that they need to look inward to find fault in themselves. It was simply a post to open eyes once again, to shed some light on the subject of subs. This post if it does nothing else proves Doms are quite fallible themselves.

Regards,
GF

[sadiej]

i appreciate the open, honest and passionate discussion of this important topic. seeing other perspectives and being able to share and hear from others, is where the best wisdom can be found.

i think for me as a sub, it is all about balance. knowing myself inside and out. feeling comfortable inside my own skin. not seeing my external relationships as something that makes me whole... but rather compliments the person that i am. what i bring to the relationship is just as vital as what i take from the relationship. much like the mutual power exchange between my Master and me.

looking myself over, physically, emotionally, spiritually... re-assesing and challenging myself to greater personal growth, is not a bad thing. i think a Dom appreciates a sub that is a vibrant, curious, and growing individual.

my sexuality is not merely in my outward appearance, or demeanor... it resides within me.. my heart, passion and spirit. but those "inner fires" are also reflected in how i present myself to others too. the pride i take in my appearance, my behavior and my character exude that inner self.

the yearning to please my Master and bring him honor, not being a "perfect" sub *as there is not such think*. but striving to find my best submission. knowin that this process is not about the destination... it is about the journey. striving to continue to grow, challenge and value the person that i am... myself. my Masterps posession.

[denuseri]

Who was it that said that a life without self examination is not worth living?

It does come down to know thyself. If one does know themselfves first, then knowing another can really begin?

[craven]

that old Greek fella Socrates Den, and i could not agree with him or you more.

Knowing onself is the key, and this means often taking some very hard and long looks at oneself, i know that i have learned much about me as a person, since finding the library and i feel that i have grown and become more comfortable within my own skin.

Honesty is the key, with your other half, but more importantly with yourself, good old Socrates.

[MacGuffin]

Godfather

I think my difficulty with your views may stem from your Introduction post.

If you are a sub and are looking for a Dom's collar I can offer you one. Yet know it will be for the sole purpose of letting others know you are no looking for their attention while you grow and learn what you it is you seek.
Whilst your intention is almost certainly honorable this sounds too much like a "collaring of convenience" for me. One may argue 'what's love got to do with it' but, call me old fashioned if you will, I prefer love and compatibility to be criteria for a collar. If not then doms may as well presign blocks ownership certificates, hand them out at the entrance door and say sign on the dotted line.

It is that first Dom the new sub meets that will mold her and shape her into who she is to become.
This is more than collaring for protection this moulding newbies into your vision of what a submissive should be. I have no doubt there is nothing wrong with your vision but this is a Svengali approach where everyone off the production line may end up as a Stepford wife. I'm sure you see the drawbacks to this approach of protecting subs.

I express my views with the utmost of respect, I am merely highlighting a possible cause for concern with your solution to a commonly accepted problem.

[DIXIE LASS]

sadiej{KW}
i appreciate the open, honest and passionate discussion of this important topic. seeing other perspectives and being able to share and hear from others, is where the best wisdom can be found.

There are many different ways to look at it.

Sometimes appearences are decieving.

I would like to say this:

The girl that is in the middle of the room, sometimes the center of attention, who apears overly flirtasious or forward, who apears to be "working the crowd", may be preforming multiple purposes by design, more so than just trying to be a self serving slut in the pursuit of cybersex.

It is dificult not to brand that which we misunderstand becuase our perspective is of course limited by our own experiences.

SadieKW and Denuseri: Dittos, Dittos, Dittos


I don't feel like a mental moron when I state that BOTH Godfather and MacGuffin have valid arguments. The "right" choices in any given situation are going to depend on the strengths and frailties of the human individuals involved. The point is that this is a discussion about issues that need to be aired. The perceptive reader will see much of him/her self in the writings of both men. So what? I think most people are on this site because they are trying to learn and explore. The point/counterpoint method is a valid teaching tool and seems to be working well here.

While I'm aware that Godfather's first stated intention was to offer help and advice to subs, particularly new subs, these on-going threads have the added benefit of offering us insight into the workings of a Dominant's mind.

I for one appreciate the time and effort expended by both Godfather and MacGuffin. I am not a natural writer and know quite well how difficult it can be to write in a clear and concise manner that both covers the territory but also does not become so verbose as to put the reader to sleep. Both men have done an admirable job here as well as other threads. Let's just hope we can continue to have these threads that tackle the hopes, fears, and doubts of many of us. I'd be proud to thank all ya'll.

Dixie

[Master Godfather]

godfather

i think my difficulty with your views may stem from your introduction post.

if you are a sub and are looking for a dom's collar i can offer you one. Yet know it will be for the sole purpose of letting others know you are no looking for their attention while you grow and learn what you it is you seek.
whilst your intention is almost certainly honorable this sounds too much like a "collaring of convenience" for me. One may argue 'what's love got to do with it' but, call me old fashioned if you will, i prefer love and compatibility to be criteria for a collar. If not then Doms may as well presign blocks ownership certificates, hand them out at the entrance door and say sign on the dotted line. i can see where you would get that impression, and to be honest you understood my intentions completely. It is a collar for convince. For the new sub who gets hounded in the chat room because she is uncollared it can be a safe haven of sorts until she or he decides what it is they want. You as a Dom surely respect a sub who has {xxx} after their name. I doubt you would stoop so low as to try and private chat a sub or start something with one whom you knew to be owned. The on line collaring is a stop sign for most doms, they know that sub is off limits for the most part.

it is that first dom the new sub meets that will mold her and shape her into who she is to become.
this is more than collaring for protection this moulding newbies into your vision of what a submissive should be. I have no doubt there is nothing wrong with your vision but this is a svengali approach where everyone off the production line may end up as a stepford wife. I'm sure you see the drawbacks to this approach of protecting subs. this time you misunderstood my intentions. I am not teaching these subs, nor would i. It would go against what i want, that is for them to be able to log in, read the forums, participate in the chat room without having to worry about being hounded with unwanted solicitations or offers.

i express my views with the utmost of respect, i am merely highlighting a possible cause for concern with your solution to a commonly accepted problem.

Your views are welcomed, I have no problem backing what I feel is correct or an issue that needs to be brought to light. It is your right to disagree. I sincerely hope by having these debates others will be educated.


GF

[Un-Touched]

Personally I know my Pet wants to be a better sub, she wants to please me and desires to make me look good by the way she carries herself and represents me. Is that bad? If it is what she enjoys and likes to do who can find fault in that. It is a process we work on all the time, to help her grow as a sub and me certainly as a Dom. Who ever thinks it is just the subs who are here to learn is mistaken in my book. I know as a Dom I simply cherish my Pet Alexia, through teaching her it has made me a better Dom.

[Whippedbayou]

Personally as a sub I had to look at your intentions Master GF. I can see how some might not appreciate your demeanor or how you word your posts yet I do. You state it in a way I can understand. In a manner that I don't take offense to. Yes I want to be a better sub, I don't mind looking at myself and seeing if I need to improve myself before looking for a Master or Dom. I thank you for looking after us subs.

This may very well ruffle feathers, if so maybe it hits to close to home.
Some here act as if they are concerned and take offense yet I know them to have been an offender of what Master GF has spoken out against in some of his posts. It amazes me when I see a Dom post he is against such behavior yet acts that way when in the chat room or with Pm's.

Thank you Master Godfather for your posts and concerns for the subs. Many Dom/mes, Master and Mistress do act in a manner which you stand for and I thank them for that. *bows*

Whipped

[Alexia_30 {UT}]

*bites the bullet and opens her mouth* I must say I do not tend to post on the forums, but I must agree with both the Godfather and my Master on this issue.

I do not look in the mirror and see Angelina Jolie, but I look in the mirror and am happy, pleased and confident enough with myself that I can forget myself and give myself, my pleasure and mind over to my Master. After all, how fulfilling would a session be with my Master if I was tied up and yet all I could think of was "I hope he doesn't think my thighs look fat in this hogtie - or I hope my belly is firm enough" - it is not a point of asking someone to "look" like a super model, just that they can look in the mirror and "feel" like one. If I was overly concerned with myself, then I could never let that go and truly, purely and blissfully enjoy, find sub-space and the pure unbridled ecstasy I am searching for in my Master’s touch. For as Godfather so eloquently stated, a wonderful Dom can nurture and boost my self esteem, but he cannot create it from thin air.

Perfection should NEVER be asked for in another…not from a Dom, or from a regular Vanilla lover – but confidence, poise, intelligence and grace is a trait any lover should expect the other to possess. I believe that is what Godfather was pointing to. At least, that is how I took it. However, it is nice to know that the no matter how vile, idiotic, moronic, fat or hairy a sub may be – she has hope with some of the Dom’s here who swear they only care about her true, hidden nature. It’s sweet, really. And I’m not being catty, honestly – I am just turning that mirror back on those who have stated such here at the forum. For I find myself wondering If these Dom’s were given a choice between two such subs, which one would they really, truly chose?

Happy thinking all – I know this post has really got my mind working. You know what they say – thinking = learning which breeds tolerance and acceptance. So bravo, Godfather. I think you are doing more good here than you even realize.

[Dea Menrfa]

MG -

Wonderful post. Your reminders are appreciated. Hopefully more people will read it in the spirit with which it was intended.

[MacGuffin]

Godfather

I thank you for the clarification but still have reservations about the collar-of-convenience concept. Even assuming romance is no longer to be a basis for a collar it is a form of vigilanteism where an individual seeks to offer an alternative outside of the system and can result in a situation like in Godfather movie where the undertaker turns to the Don Corleone instead of the police for justice. If the subbie is being "hounded" what should she do, turn to a moderator or turn to the Godfather? And if collars-of-convenience are a solution then perhaps Torq should offer collars or the sub can use a fictional collar like subbie{xyz}.

This solution could also, in my opinion, work against the sub finding a dom. What's the point in subs standing naked in front of the mirror examing their body hair when, as you say, no Dom is going to stoop so low as to start anything with one of your collared subs. Certainly not me or any good dom but I'm not so sure the bad doms have qualms about stooping.

For your information I have never initiated a whisper or even chatted in private for fear of being seen as a troll. And I avoid chatting with unattached subs because I know that any second a Dom will enter and within seconds request a pm with the sub I am talking to. The subbie will accept and immediately disappear leaving me mid sentence. It baffles me how subs consider it impolite to refuse a pm request from somebody who just come in but not impolite to abruptly walk away mid-stream from sombody they've are chatting with.

I apologise to everybody for going off topic and will drop the subject. Looks like when I go in the lobby and see a room full of subbies with {Godfather}in their nick I'll have to ask "Is that a collar of convenience you're wearing or a real collar? "

[Master Godfather]

I apologise to everybody for going off topic and will drop the subject. Looks like when I go in the lobby and see a room full of subbies with {Godfather}in their nick I'll have to ask "Is that a collar of convenience you're wearing or a real collar? "

I think the real question is, why would you care? If they are collared it shouldn't matter. As you yourself have said you would not stoop to that level knowing a sub is collared. So I would ask, why is it a problem if the sub requests it? Certainly it is their choice, their right. Knowing they would do so of their own free will it strikes me as odd that you would oppose it. Then again I offer nothing but shelter, allowing them a safe haven as they watch, listen, read and learn. Perhaps you have a better idea? If so please share it with us. For now, I will make my posts, rattle a few bars and cages and make some aware of a problem as I see it.

We both seem to want the same thing. The ability of new subs to be able to enjoy the site without having to deal with all that can go on. I have offered a few posts, a suggestion and yet at each turn you seem to enjoy playing devils advocate looking for bad intentions where none were meant. Comparing me to a ganster whom did bad or evil things simply because I took on the name Godfather. I heard a saying once. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Which one are you?

GF

[Whippedbayou]

Although this should never get personal I kind of want to jump to Master Godfathers defense and ask MacGuffin why you would care if I as a sub asked for a collar simply to keep others at bay? Thank God I am male, I have seen first hand how my female counterparts are treated and let me tell you it's not good. Yes there are some who want to be told what to do, like to be treated like a whore and wish to be called a cunt. Yet when it is their first time in the chat room and a whisper comes in asking what they are wearing and telling them what they will do for a Dom is unacceptable.

I will be unsub for a minute and say this, if a Dom whispered me and pulled that crap I would in the public channel make a comment that I assure you would not go unnoticed. My first couple nights here I knew the rules I read them, but I was unaware of what to expect, I would not have thought to report someone for breaking the rules. I quite frankly was scared my first time logging into the chat room. I applaud people like DixieLass, Alexia_30 and Sadiej who speak there minds. Just because we are submissive doesn't mean we can't be hurt. Yes there are two sides to every coin, but some here seem to think they know the minds of a sub and what is best for them. While Master godfather has a damn good idea of what I am thinking or feeling.

Ok, end of rant. *Get back into his humbled routine and acts submissive once again*.

[DowntownAmber]

*sets two pennies on the table*

There are plenty of posts littering this forum where the particulars of "safe, sane, and consensual" are hotly debated. This, frankly, doesn't fall under any of those categories. It is simply a matter of personal preference and whatever floats your proverbial boat.

It's like debating whether you feel better going out dressed conservitively or in a mini-skirt.

If a sub feels better that they have a collar on, even if it's only for the sake of show, then they feel better and all the more power to them. If it makes them more comfortable in chat or posting on the forums, fabulous. We all like to see people participate so whatever it takes to get them out there, I guess.

Personally, I think just putting "not looking" or "here for friendships only" is just as effective in deterring the predators and much less likely to turn away an honorable Dom just looking to be friends or a mentor (many of these decent guys are the ones that won't approach the collared subs).

For all practical purposes, I just doubt that collars of convenience will actually keep a sub immune to unwanted advances - the types of folks that "whisper" without consent and pursue at random are rarely deterred by a collar.

Predatory "Doms" will also likely know the collar is fake just by the reputation of the Master that has handed it out. You can't announce to subs that you'll collar them without being their Master and not expect a few of the Doms to notice too.

And in the case of someone badgering one of these "collared" subs, I have to wonder what will be done to protect them anyway? If there's an issue a mod needs to be involved no matter how you slice it. Even a a couple in a real D/s relationship has to go to a mod if there is online harrassment.

That beig said, there is still no "harm" in doing it. It's not hurting or offending anyone, and it's making someone feel good for awhile. Yay for joy and happiness whatever its source.

*throws down another couple pennies*

That was a least a four cent piece of my mind...

[MacGuffin]

I wanted to drop the subject because we have veered of the original topic of Godfather's suugestions as to how subs can improve themselves in order to find a dom. That said, I will respond to the points address to me:

Whippedbayou - and ask MacGuffin why you would care if I as a sub asked for a collar simply to keep others at bay?
Godfather - I think the real question is, why would you care? If they are collared it shouldn't matter.
I think since Whippedbayou's question is merely a repetition of Godfathers I can kill two birds with one stone here. Clearly my comment was a little tongue in cheek but nonetheless there was an underlying truth. What do I care? I could say given a world of starvation, poverty, war and pestilence I don't really care if a sub wears a collar of convenience. But this was my point:

Firstly - You are taking the romantic relationship out a collar and turning it into something completely different. What do you care if somebody marries an american just to get a green card. What do you care if a university gives away fake degree certificate so somebody can get a job. What do you care if everybody wears a fake rolex watch when you have paid 10,00 bucks for your real one. A collar of convenience devalues the worth and meaning of something which for many people is a cherished symbol of love.

Secondly - I can see that the subbie want to avoid being harassed - no arguement here. But does the subbie want be protected from good doms as well? Probably not. Can you not see the confusion when the subbie with the collar of convenience says to the dom she likes "ah but you can pm me, ignore this collar its just a fake one". In a rl analagy this is almost like women slipping on and off wedding rings according to who asked them to dance. Now assume other doms offer collars of convenience as well and give it a while. You end up with a situation where all subs are collared some real, some fake, some want a dom and some don't. Total confusion and anarchy!

Godfather - I have offered a few posts, a suggestion and yet at each turn you seem to enjoy playing devils advocate looking for bad intentions where none were meant
I am sure your intentions are honorable but is it not wise to scrutinize solutions to spot any possible downsides. Isn't that why laws take a long time to be passed.

Godfather - Comparing me to a ganster whom did bad or evil things simply because I took on the name Godfather.
Come on be fair. Surely you can understand when a Dom with the Godfather for nick (and avatar) makes an offer of protection the comparison is obvious. I was not implying you are a gangster, merely highlighting the drawbacks of working outside the existing policing framework. If it is pure coincidence that your nick is so apt for an offer of protection I apologise, but I am sure you will understand the reason for my error.

Godfather - If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Which one are you?
Yes very good bumper sticker wisdom. Now let's apply the same maxim to important issues like crime. I'm not a policeman so I must be a criminal. That said I will think on some suggestions. I'm sure you will understand I need to think first, thats how it works with problem solving.

PS - I agree completely with DownTownAmber but if collars do not have a special meaning to subs then thats fine by me, frankly I don't care personally and am no great fan of either rl collars or nick collars. I was not thinking of my own interests when I pointed out the potential downfalls. I was thinking of the many subs for whom a collar is a little bit more than a fashion statement or personal security device. This is what its all about, thinking about the other person.

[Ozme52]

I wanted to drop the subject because we have veered of the original topic of Godfather's suugestions as to how subs can improve themselves in order to find a dom. That said, I will respond to the points address to me:

Whippedbayou - and ask MacGuffin why you would care if I as a sub asked for a collar simply to keep others at bay?
Godfather - I think the real question is, why would you care? If they are collared it shouldn't matter.
I think since Whippedbayou's question is merely a repetition of Godfathers I can kill two birds with one stone here. Clearly my comment was a little tongue in cheek but nonetheless there was an underlying truth. What do I care? I could say given a world of starvation, poverty, war and pestilence I don't really care if a sub wears a collar of convenience. But this was my point:

Firstly - You are taking the romantic relationship out a collar and turning it into something completely different. What do you care if somebody marries an american just to get a green card. What do you care if a university gives away fake degree certificate so somebody can get a job. What do you care if everybody wears a fake rolex watch when you have paid 10,00 bucks for your real one. A collar of convenience devalues the worth and meaning of something which for many people is a cherished symbol of love.

Secondly - I can see that the subbie want to avoid being harassed - no arguement here. But does the subbie want be protected from good doms as well? Probably not. Can you not see the confusion when the subbie with the collar of convenience says to the dom she likes "ah but you can pm me, ignore this collar its just a fake one". In a rl analagy this is almost like women slipping on and off wedding rings according to who asked them to dance. Now assume other doms offer collars of convenience as well and give it a while. You end up with a situation where all subs are collared some real, some fake, some want a dom and some don't. Total confusion and anarchy!

I don't hold with the strict definition of collaring you imply, but I fully agree with your points in this context.

Godfather - I have offered a few posts, a suggestion and yet at each turn you seem to enjoy playing devils advocate looking for bad intentions where none were meant
I am sure your intentions are honorable but is it not wise to scrutinize solutions to spot any possible downsides. Isn't that why laws take a long time to be passed.

Right you are MacG.

Godfather - Comparing me to a ganster whom did bad or evil things simply because I took on the name Godfather.
Come on be fair. Surely you can understand when a Dom with the Godfather for nick (and avatar) makes an offer of protection the comparison is obvious. I was not implying you are a gangster, merely highlighting the drawbacks of working outside the existing policing framework. If it is pure coincidence that your nick is so apt for an offer of protection I apologise, but I am sure you will understand the reason for my error.

Nice!! Names and Avatars are indeed picked to indicate intent or project an image or attract attention.

Godfather - If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Which one are you?
Yes very good bumper sticker wisdom. Now let's apply the same maxim to important issues like crime. I'm not a policeman so I must be a criminal. That said I will think on some suggestions. I'm sure you will understand I need to think first, thats how it works with problem solving.

Bumper Sticker Wisdom... LMAO Perfect.