Polyamorous or just not sure?

[jeanne]

Perhaps because I don't have children, I can't understand it... the difference.

I don't think that's the case at all. It is, of course, tempting to fall back on that easy response, but it's facile. I'm going to think a moment - will attempt an explanation. Perhaps it will make sense, perhaps not.

Perhaps because I don't have children, I treat all my adult loves as most treat their children. Does that make me, as a poly personality, shallower or deeper?

Only you know the answer to that. Each of us finds what works for us, and makes our own peace with it.

[jeanne]

Love for children vs. love for lovers.

When I try to come up with what the difference is, it's hard to think rationally about it. It's just one of those things that I accept as true without questioning why. So here's my attempt at 'why'.

Love is made up of a lot of different elements. There's need, desire, protectiveness, generosity, selfishness and selflessness. I know there's more - and I'm sure ya'll will tell me - those are just the ones that occur to me now.

Feeling love for a child is accepting the eventual change in the relationship, the eventual loss of the intensity of the bond that is formed at birth (or when that child becomes a member of your family). That is a component of that kind of love. It is fraught with responsibility and fear, accompanied by myriad intangible rewards. The big reward is raising them and seeing them become happy, functioning adults, who loosen their bond with you voluntarily.

Love for a lover though...rather than accepting the eventual loss of the bond as part of the process, as part of how you love, we want that bond to last and grow stronger. And we expect, when we say "I love you" to another, for the bond to strengthen. Often this does translate into monogamy. It depends on the person. And when we say those words to another, it is often a way to feel special. And when we hear them, we believe that we are. "Hey", we think, "this person, who I love, also loves me! I trust that they will care for my heart, as I will try to care for theirs, and treasure my love." It doesn't mean that we can't also love others, though.

Love for our children is strong, almost indestructible. Romantic love, when wholehearted, can be fragile. I personally hate that it is, at least for me, but it is.

I fear I didn't do a good job answering the question...oh well.

[J-Go]

OK look this whole line of loving your kids or both mom and dad or sister Sue and cousin Mike is about to make be heave. As human beings, unless we have some serious wiring flaws, we are all capable of loving more than one person. But give me a break here, the poly life style is about having sex with more that one person…guilt free. Now PLASE don’t get me wrong, if that’s your thing and you can make it work with all the people you are being intimate with MORE POWER TO YOU. But to compare a lifestyle choice to loving friendships or familial relationships is missing the point of the thread, and in all likelihood justifying your choices cast onto another person who at some level doesn't feel the same way.

[denuseri]

It all depends on the individuals and thier preceptions involved.

When one goes "poly" say for a fling like a play party or gangbang situation, or an owner is shareing his girl with another, its certianly different from the other type of "poly" relationship............. where a two way street turns into an busy intersection.

[jeanne]

I just reread this entire thread with an eye towards the fact that I'm genuinely working on finding a comfortable 'level' of poly for me. Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences and feelings here...I know how difficult it can be, particularly when your own ideas are contrary to the 'accepted norm'.

[icey]

it does work for some people, firstly because all of this in love stuff...well i have to ask, what is it really? most people will say they have been ''in love'' and ''have loved'' more than once and with each new partner will say they have never before loved anyone like they love them etc etc , that to me is because everyone cares about and likes admires etc each individual they become close to in totally different ways ..so why cant you love more than one person at a time?
what causes the problems with poly r/ships is nothing to do with love or lack of it but just plain jealousy imo
at a fetish fair we went to last year we met a family.
in all there were 7 members each with their own place in the household and they'd had been together for some 20+yrs they were all extremely happy and each were equally of value, however i think thats fairly unique.

i said 7 members but you might want to (yet strangely they didnt) include the married ''cat'' who came to visit once every week or so for a little 10 minute petting on someones lap lol

[shyslut]

Me and my husband have talked about this alot as well.

"Each wife/woman/partner was in charge of a specific duty. Today a wife has to be a good mother, a good spouse, good at her job, social, take care of herself and be pretty, have food ready for the family and so on and so forth and all that with a smile on her face."

Not to mention that in a monogamous relationship you have to be their lover, mother, nurse, friend, team mate, therapist, coach. In short when your only two you do lean VERY hard on the other person. Me and my husband after many years of marriage have agreed that our love has indeed grown for each other and is stronger but still cannot be the end all be all fulfillment of everything we need. Its not possible.

Now I have a husband and a Dom. I love them both. However because of the commitment if hubby said no dom I would. Earlier in my life I could have never imagined getting to this point. But Im glad I did. The 3 of us are much happier!!

That being said. Being honest and transparent. Doing alot of planning and negotiating is very important. Communicating and sticking to our agreements is VERY important. I hope the situation lasts a long time. This is my first time. Im ok if it doesn't though because right now were all happy and getting our needs met.

[Hime]

If there is something seriously lacking in your primary relationship that you just can't live without, then it is time to find a new primary. Adding a slutty little slave on the side isn't going to make you any happier with your wife.

This doesn't really apply to everyone. Like many (although definitely not all) bisexual people, I really need to be with both men and women. By that definition, my relationship with my husband is "seriously lacking in something that I just can't live without," because he doesn't have a vagina *and* a penis. I don't think that means it's time to choose a new primary.

[Silus]

You must have a strong relationship and go very slow...my wife and I have messed with it...mostly just going to adult clubs and watching others so far.

[MollysMaster]

This doesn't really apply to everyone. Like many (although definitely not all) bisexual people, I really need to be with both men and women. By that definition, my relationship with my husband is "seriously lacking in something that I just can't live without," because he doesn't have a vagina *and* a penis. I don't think that means it's time to choose a new primary.

As long as everyone involved is 100% honest, it can work very well. You are correct that your H doesn't have a females' body, so by finding a female partner that he is not threatened by would be your best choice. It can be done, but again I must stress that there can be no lies or deceptions...otherwise you are just cheating/sleeping around.

Poly also works for those whose primary partner is vanilla and you are looking for someone to explore your kink side. It doesn't mean you love your primary any less, you are just looking to add another piece that is not there.

I have found that I have grown closer to my spouse throughout these experiences. I have learned more about her in ways I could not bring out. However, by allowing her to explore certain desires with another partner, I have been able to modify how I treat her.

Our sessions are more passionate and her submission is deeper then it has ever been.

This does not work for everyone, but for those that it does...

[jeanne]

I've reread this whole thread...again...

Just because they agree to it (thinking all the while, he'll pick me in the end) doesn't mean they like it either.

This struck a chord with me. To go into a relationship with one who is a self-proclaimed poly person with an eye towards "he'll pick me in the end" is just setting oneself up for failure. You turn a relationship into a test. It is a really icky way to go about conducting a relationship - having a hidden agenda.

I think whether you feel positively towards the idea of Polyamory in your own life, or not, is just fine. It's unfortunate that some people feel the need to criticize others' lifestyles, though, and apply their personal morality to others.

It's precisely that type of thinking, that disapproving of others' mutually-consenting sexuality, that leads bdsm people to need to be anonymous on forums like this. And yet even some of us are doing it! Makes me very sad.

Yes. This is definitely something that makes me sad too. We are all, by the nature of our BDSM needs, considered abnormal by 'society'. And supporting each other in our own personal choices is something I think we owe each other. And no, that does not mean that if Joe Blow states his desire to 'do' 12-year-old girls that we must support it. There is a line between personal choice and doing harm to others, particularly those who do not have the ability to consent, whether because of age or mental maturity and intelligence. But for consenting, thinking adults...yes. It truly is their business to decide how they want to live and also their business to determine how to get their needs met without harming others.

I had a lot typed out on this, but nah. I'll just say this-

If polyamory is the thing for you, then do it. Know yourself well enough to understand what it is you desire in a relationship, find a like-minded soul (or souls in this case) and do it all over the place. Live your life and be happy in it.

Just don't expect and/or demand that others be happy with you in the living of it. "Live and let live", while a grand idea, just isn't realistic. And unless you live totally isolated from public view and opinion, what you should expect are judgements, differing opinions and disapproval. That's what people do when they don't understand something. And forget trying to "make them understand" any of it. They don't want to.

That's life. Have fun with it.

That's very true. Understanding is a bit much to ask, when we choose such different paths. It would be nice though if there were a little more acceptance.

As for me, my pre-existing Relationship(s) take precedence, and do set the standard for what I may or may not have to offer the next person. But that is me.

Yes. I do find that this is a truth for me.

I need and want to be special to my Dominant,

Yes. I think we all have a very human need to feel special, in a 'romantic' way, to someone. And that need almost seems, from my own experience anyway, to be magnified for submissives. I'm working my way around to separating that need from emotions like jealousy and envy and insecurity and fear.

Today a wife has to be a good mother, a good spouse, good at her job, social, take care of herself and be pretty, have food ready for the family and so on and so forth and all that with a smile on her face.

Not to mention that in a monogamous relationship you have to be their lover, mother, nurse, friend, team mate, therapist, coach. In short when your only two you do lean VERY hard on the other person.

God, yes. I did it for almost 24 years...and I'm worn out. I don't WANT to be anyone's 'everything' ever again. And I have no intention of putting another person in that position for me. For two reasons: a) because of what I just said - it wears them out and b) because I don't think any one person can meet all my needs anyway. Why set them and myself up for failure like that? Especially if I claim to love them?

This does not work for everyone, but for those that it does...

Exactly. My hope is that it will work for me, because I think it is the happiest way for me to live.

-----------------------------------

A good friend has loaned me a book - "Opening Up" by Tristan Taormino. It has a lot of information and definitions of terms and first-person narratives and hands-on advice for how to talk about poly and work out agreements and deal with emotions. I'm finding it very useful and recommend it highly for any who are interested in exploring this lifestyle in an emotionally honest way.

[hopperboo]

I believe you can love many people.

I also believe it takes very special and rare people to be in love with more than one person - and have that work with all in the relationship.

But I certainly believe you can love more than one and have a relationship, a long and lasting one at that. There are societies that do it everyday, and even in the beginnings of the USA we had the Native American's that would marry with multiple wives or take a wife (and children) of a brother that had fallen in battle or died.

If that isn't the most selfless love on Earth I don't know what is.

[DowntownAmber]

Since this thread has been bumped, I too have gone back and reread a good portion of it. Three pages worth of discussion, many useful points and points of view. It seems to me, however, that it still boils down to figuring out what works for you and expressing that honestly. Be with a partner or partners that you trust as honest when they tell you what works for them, as well.

Not to sound old and cranky here, but nothing gives me a bigger headache than people that tell their partner a lie about how they feel because they think it's what the partner wants to hear and then they get all upset because the partner acts on what s/he has been told. "Oh, you're poly? Yeah, I'm totally okay with that. Not jealous in the least little bit. What?? You Dommed another sub! Now I'm pissed!"

Alternately, when told something by a significant other, it's helpful to believe it as opposed to translating it into what you think they "really mean" and being mad at them when you realize that what they said was what they meant all along.

Now, I'm not talking about when people change their minds, that happens and it can't be helped. I just prefer that all parties are kept abreast of the evolutionary thought process.

Poly or monogamous, nothing can be healthy without honest communication.

[blythe spirit]

Poly relationships seem to work well in a great many cultures. Could this be that there is a shortage of men? Was it because it took a single woman much longer to give birth, then it did for man to plant the seed? Meaning, it was a way to populate the world, which there is definitely not a need for any longer. lol

When I love, there is no room in my heart for anyone else. And when someone claims to love me, I expect their heart will be full as well. I want 100% devotion. If I can't have it, I won't give it. So, if someone tells me they're Poly, that's fine with me, but don't expect me to get involved with you.

Whilst I'm resorting to the tried and true, (a bit old-fashioned, I know) the wedding vows state, "forsaking all others." All others!

My brain is muttled after reading all the posts relative to this subject so, I might be repeating what someone already stated. Love between a "couple" is much different than that of children, mother/father, siblings, friends. Afterall, it is with no other that you share such intimacy.

[Ozme52]

Whilst I'm resorting to the tried and true, (a bit old-fashioned, I know) the wedding vows state, "forsaking all others." All others!

Yes if you mean christian (?judeo-christian?) wedding vows... but we wrote ours and excluded this and similarly aligned monogamous concepts. Do you also hold 100% to the obedience clause? One that only applies to the wife?

My brain is muttled after reading all the posts relative to this subject so, I might be repeating what someone already stated. Love between a "couple" is much different than that of children, mother/father, siblings, friends. Afterall, it is with no other that you share such intimacy.

Well, that's the point of the discussion. Can't use it as a dispositive fact.

[blythe spirit]

Yes if you mean christian (?judeo-christian?) wedding vows... but we wrote ours and excluded this and similarly aligned monogamous concepts. Do you also hold 100% to the obedience clause? One that only applies to the wife?



Well, that's the point of the discussion. Can't use it as a dispositive fact.

You're absolutely right, Oz. I am reciting that of the Christian vows. I suppose people can write whatever they want to meet their needs. However, I did hold to the obedience clause. My husband would no doubt, if he were still alive, attest to that. *mournful sighs*

Well, I'm using it because I'm not referring to the love between more than one intimate partner, but as an example of those we love with whom we do not have such intimacy. As I see it, that's a very different kind of love.

[MollysMaster]

Exactly. My hope is that it will work for me, because I think it is the happiest way for me to live.

-----------------------------------

A good friend has loaned me a book - "Opening Up" by Tristan Taormino. It has a lot of information and definitions of terms and first-person narratives and hands-on advice for how to talk about poly and work out agreements and deal with emotions. I'm finding it very useful and recommend it highly for any who are interested in exploring this lifestyle in an emotionally honest way.

- This is a great book! We have read it many times and passed out copies. Went to her book reading here and she was a very down to earth person. She also has a web site: http://www.puckerup.com/

Also another good web site to go to is http://xeromag.com/fvpoly.html
Pretty easy to read.

[sidhewolf]

Love for children vs. love for lovers.

Differences and in commons in these things *to me* are these; The In Commons I believe and experience to be > Long Term Committed Love. Another in common component can be the depth of that Love. And the Responsibility that entails. Love for Lovers has a component most don't have in common with say Love for Mother, Father, Brother, Sister, Children, and that is that capacity for a sexually intimate Relationship, and other factors that such a Relationship may entail. Which is typically not a component of Bio Family Love. And yet still, Loving someone differently does not mean Loving less. It's really hard to compare apples to oranges, even though they are both fruit.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

I believe you can love many people.

I also believe it takes very special and rare people to be in love with more than one person - and have that work with all in the relationship.

But I certainly believe you can love more than one and have a relationship, a long and lasting one at that. There are societies that do it everyday, and even in the beginnings of the USA we had the Native American's that would marry with multiple wives or take a wife (and children) of a brother that had fallen in battle or died.

If that isn't the most selfless love on Earth I don't know what is.

It really just takes the openess to Love and it's potential and possibilities, as far as being able to Love more then one Partner. Actually creating working Multi-Partner Relationship(s) takes work, effort, commitment, excellent Honest open communication skills, and great Time Management skills also.

On the Native American practices re; Family> yes. I am the child of such a child. My GrandFather (on Fathers side) Fathered a child (My Father) for his deceased brother. And then passed unexpectedly himself (from a logging accident). My GrandMother (who was leaving the Reservation after the death of my GrandFather with their children) was asked by my Fathers Mother to take and raise her child as well....which she did.

Ironically years later, my Father and his 1/2 Brother were both in Love with the same woman (my Mother). My Father won her, and I was conceived. They were to be Married when he returned from the navy. Then my Father passed before making it Home when I was 3 weeks old. His half Brother (my Dad) Married my Mother, and raised me as his own

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

A good friend has loaned me a book - "Opening Up" by Tristan Taormino. It has a lot of information and definitions of terms and first-person narratives and hands-on advice for how to talk about poly and work out agreements and deal with emotions. I'm finding it very useful and recommend it highly for any who are interested in exploring this lifestyle in an emotionally honest way.

*The Ethical Slut* is also a very good book for Learning more about Poly Jeanne. It's a sort of Bible in the Poly Community, and has been around a lotta years It's also available on E-Bay quite inexpensively.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

Since this thread has been bumped, I too have gone back and reread a good portion of it. Three pages worth of discussion, many useful points and points of view. It seems to me, however, that it still boils down to figuring out what works for you and expressing that honestly. Be with a partner or partners that you trust as honest when they tell you what works for them, as well.

Not to sound old and cranky here, but nothing gives me a bigger headache than people that tell their partner a lie about how they feel because they think it's what the partner wants to hear and then they get all upset because the partner acts on what s/he has been told. "Oh, you're poly? Yeah, I'm totally okay with that. Not jealous in the least little bit. What?? You Dommed another sub! Now I'm pissed!"

Alternately, when told something by a significant other, it's helpful to believe it as opposed to translating it into what you think they "really mean" and being mad at them when you realize that what they said was what they meant all along.

Now, I'm not talking about when people change their minds, that happens and it can't be helped. I just prefer that all parties are kept abreast of the evolutionary thought process.

Poly or monogamous, nothing can be healthy without honest communication.

Very True Amber! Without Honest Open Communication, no Relationship of any Style really works does it?

On paragraph 2 of your post; And just clarifying meaning here; Telling someone one is Poly is not open field to simply do whatever with whomever whenever....unless that is a part of the Relationship Agreement. IE Declaring oneself as Poly does no more explain what that is to someone else, than declaring oneself as a candy addict. Poly means different things to different people. If I declare myself a candy addict, does that tell someone else that when I am going to the candy store that I mean to buy and eat All the candy in the store? Many times in the scenerio you mention here the problem is not about the Poly person relating to another person, its a lack of Communication and Openess about that. Too many people think declaring themselves Poly is a good excuse to lie and cheat the Relationship(s) they have. And when there is problems about that, they want to fall back on "Well I told you I am Poly". Of course a large part of that problem is about Communication too. When someone tells you they are Poly, it is Real Important to ask "What is Poly to you?". There are so many configurations that this is vital information to have.

Here's another good link;

http://www.xeromag.com/making_relationships_suck.pdf

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[jeanne]

*The Ethical Slut* is also a very good book for Learning more about Poly Jeanne. It's a sort of Bible in the Poly Community, and has been around a lotta years It's also available on E-Bay quite inexpensively.

This is a good one. I don't know why I didn't mention it too...perhaps becausen the other book is brand new to me and is the primary one I'm reading right now.

When someone tells you they are Poly, it is Real Important to ask "What is Poly to you?". There are so many configurations that this is vital information to have.

Absolutely. I agree completely. Assuming you know what another person means when they say they are poly is a prime way to get hurt.

[sidhewolf]

This is a good one. I don't know why I didn't mention it too...perhaps becausen the other book is brand new to me and is the primary one I'm reading right now.



Absolutely. I agree completely. Assuming you know what another person means when they say they are poly is a prime way to get hurt.

Just makin' sure you know about that one

Very True, though in Poly Relating, generally Everyone gets hurt in some capacity when this happens. Of course Assumptions generally do mess up something in anything they are applied to eh?

Deciding what Poly is to you, and asking what Poly is to a prospective Partner, then Choosing Partner(s) that have needs of eachother that mesh, really goes a loooooong ways towards the success of that PartnerShip. Without this exchange of information, a Poly Sexual person and a Poly Fi person (for example) can become enmeshed, when they are Truly no match at all. In Poly Choosing Partner(s) that want the same things from the Relationship works best

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[DowntownAmber]

Very True Amber! Without Honest Open Communication, no Relationship of any Style really works does it?

On paragraph 2 of your post; And just clarifying meaning here; Telling someone one is Poly is not open field to simply do whatever with whomever whenever....unless that is a part of the Relationship Agreement. IE Declaring oneself as Poly does no more explain what that is to someone else, than declaring oneself as a candy addict. Poly means different things to different people. If I declare myself a candy addict, does that tell someone else that when I am going to the candy store that I mean to buy and eat All the candy in the store? Many times in the scenerio you mention here the problem is not about the Poly person relating to another person, its a lack of Communication and Openess about that. Too many people think declaring themselves Poly is a good excuse to lie and cheat the Relationship(s) they have. And when there is problems about that, they want to fall back on "Well I told you I am Poly". Of course a large part of that problem is about Communication too. When someone tells you they are Poly, it is Real Important to ask "What is Poly to you?". There are so many configurations that this is vital information to have.

Here's another good link;

http://www.xeromag.com/making_relationships_suck.pdf

Respectfully~SidheWolf

Indeed - I simplified for the sake of saving myself having to type more, but you're right that it is important to understand what poly means when you are either telling someone you are poly or hearing it from a partner. Definitions are key.

And now since we're back on the subject of communication, I'm going to switch gears just slightly and throw out another one of my pet communication peeves: "don't ask don't tell." I've played with that one before and it's always something that seems like a good idea at the time but always ends up biting someone in the proverbial ass.

Thoughts?

[Ozme52]

If BOTH partners agree to that policy... it can work.

I will admit, if I had the information 30 years ago I have now... I wouldn't choose it. But it seemed a good policy for two people who didn't want to swing and didn't see other options for being open.

The internet would have been a great boon to us back then.

[blythe spirit]

another one of my pet communication peeves: "don't ask don't tell." I've played with that one before and it's always something that seems like a good idea at the time but always ends up biting someone in the proverbial ass.

Thoughts?

Ha! Too many times in the "vanilla" world and I suppose this can apply to this lifestyle as well, women/men close their eyes for fear of losing their SOs. They have their reasoning, of course. "What I don't know don't hurt." However, when you care about someone, don't you know in your heart whats happening?

Guess, I just like to ask too many questions to live by the "don't ask, don't tell" creed. lol And I'll be damned if I'd close my eyes to anything. *thinks* I'm a wee bit possessive, huh? *giggles

[MollysMaster]

And now since we're back on the subject of communication, I'm going to switch gears just slightly and throw out another one of my pet communication peeves: "don't ask don't tell." I've played with that one before and it's always something that seems like a good idea at the time but always ends up biting someone in the proverbial ass.

Thoughts?

I believe it is always a bad idea to go don't ask don't tell. How could that work if you are open in communication. Communication is super key. You can actually learn some new things by talking about your experiences.

Maybe you thought you knew your SO but then learned that someone else did something and they liked it. Now you have just added more to your primary relationship then you had before. It also opens the door to being more compassionate and really opens the door to learning more about yourself and your SO.

More people actually could fall under poly then they think. Ploy isn't about just having sex, it's about relationships. Think about when you have had a friend in your life where whenever they needed something you helped them. Could that have turned into something more if you would have allowed yourself to share those feelings? But maybe you didn't because you were with someone else and so you kept doing things to be near them.

I am not saying you are having relationships with everyone who is your friend. However, some friends share different parts of your life then others. If you can juggle many friends, maybe you can have multiple lovers.

[sidhewolf]

Indeed - I simplified for the sake of saving myself having to type more, but you're right that it is important to understand what poly means when you are either telling someone you are poly or hearing it from a partner. Definitions are key.

And now since we're back on the subject of communication, I'm going to switch gears just slightly and throw out another one of my pet communication peeves: "don't ask don't tell." I've played with that one before and it's always something that seems like a good idea at the time but always ends up biting someone in the proverbial ass.

Thoughts?

<nods> Amber, I can definantly hear that and yet I do like to be as clear as I am able in Communication for everones sake. When walking the Journey of Poly, it's just so important to be Very Clear and Honest, just like in every other Style of Relating. Lies (even lies of omission) don't build anything positive. They in fact steal the often irreplacible building supplies. The Truth can be hard to tell sometimes, Especially when one wants something so badly, and what one must tell is not a warm fuzzy, or something one knows the other person may not, or won't like. But Only the Truth will ever Truly succeed in Getting what one wishes for.

I am reminded of something someone said here once on another topic, and I may not be able to quote ver batem. But it was something like > "The more Time one spends with someone who is not right for eachother, is more Time away from one or those who are". This is one of the Truest things I have seen written here.

A good example might be> Trying to hook up with someone one is attracted to who only has like 1 day a month to spend with someone other then the Partner or Partner(s) they have, and you need someone to spend nearly every day with. Telling the person who needs nearly every day with you that you don't have that much Time to give, given your current obligations, can lose you that opportunity to have a Relationship with them. But so will not telling them....eventually. Likewise Telling someone "Oh Poly is fine with me" when what you Really mean is "I am gonna compete for you and do my dead level best to take you away from your Life to suite what I want from you", most times won't work either. My own little saying that has proven itself True over and over for many years is > *Time Will Tell~It ALWAYS Does!*. Another thing I am is a Very Good Listener, and Very Observant! Red Flags to me are bright neon lights that scream "DON'T GO THERE!". And I won't. I don't do drama well or long. And if thats all it's gonna end up being, I'll end it now Thank you! Telling the Truth will always cut to the chase, or the Heart of the matter, which Everyone can decide for themselves Honestly and Openly what they can and cannot do.

I Agree for the most part on the DADT thingy Amber. Though it does work for some, or at least for a Time. I tried it only once in my Life, and it just didn't fit. *To Me* DADT translates as "We're kinda together, you can do what you want with no regard to me and Our Relationship, and I can do the same, and we'll just see if WE survive that". DADT also translates to me as a lack of True Intimacy (which I need with those I Love), and instability (which I won't be able to Happily thrive in). I am a very solid, stable, deliberate, kind of person. I need Goals, planning, adherence to Agreements and Bounderies (by Everyone involved), Re-Negotiation (if possible), an Ending if not. DADT is too risky to invest my Heart in ever again. I guess it breaks down to me that if I do not wish to be Known and Loved for Who I Am, and I do not wish to Know and Love my Partner(s) for Who They Are > Why bother?

I think also DADT is too much like driving a VW Bug Blindfolded in rush hour 100 mph traffic with Mac Trucks

Respectfully~SidheWolf