surrogate sub

[voxelectronica]

I didn't know where to put this. So it's going here!

I'm going to preface this with saying that I do not currently plan on doing any of this... not even in the next couple of years. A Dom looking for a Dom/Dom relationship was talking about having kids and it sparked an imaginative little worm in me.

I can conceive, I can carry a child, I can not deliver any natural way. Doing so will lead to a very painful messy death. Would it be nice to risk it all and carry a child to term living right next to a hospital? Sure that's great. I would be much more comfortable with a surrogate.

Now let's say that all my bdsm dreams came true one day. That I was in a Dom/Dom relationship with 24/7 slaves. Now I wouldn't get off on the idea of "forcing" a slave to carry my child. I sure would like it though.

I was going to write out two separate questions based off this scenario but really it's the same question. Is this something you would do? Either as a sub would you carry a Dom's child and as a Dom would you have a sub carry?

and discuss!

[hopperboo]

No. I would never carry a child for someone else, let alone for a BDSM relationship.

I guess I may be taking this the wrong way but it sounds as if the idea of someone carrying your child is more what you prefer and not actually the child itself. *?* Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[voxelectronica]

yes let me clarify.

"Now I wouldn't get off on the idea of "forcing" a slave to carry my child. I sure would like it though."

I would like it as I would avoid death and I could constantly monitor the slave (or subs) condition, food intake, general welfare actions etc.

[angelic.zest]

i would a child is a blessing and sometimes some women arent able to experience that blessing of having children or being able to adopt. With the right person and right paper work in order i would. Since im not a Dominant and dont ever want to experience a Dom/Dom relationship..i cant speak on having a child in that way, but if i were in that type of relationship and it was a Fem/Fem both of us Tops and she didnt want to experience the child bearing experience, then i would it would be our baby and we both would be in that childs life. Its a life changing experience to carry a child to term and having him/her home. I know ive done it and enjoyed myself but i doubt i would be doing that again because i didint like my body changing but giving the right circumstances, i might change myself. If i found the right Dominant and we talked about having children and really were on another level besides just bedroom kink, then yeah that might change my mind but.....

going back to your question on hand, I would if i were in a Fem/Fem-Dominant relationship i would carry the child ..now if we had a female submissive who wanted to the surrogate mother sub, then yeah OK she could but i would not do anything without making sure everyone is covered legally.

[thir]

Now let's say that all my bdsm dreams came true one day. That I was in a Dom/Dom relationship with 24/7 slaves. Now I wouldn't get off on the idea of "forcing" a slave to carry my child. I sure would like it though.

I was going to write out two separate questions based off this scenario but really it's the same question. Is this something you would do? Either as a sub would you carry a Dom's child and as a Dom would you have a sub carry?

and discuss!

I am not quite sure I understand this. How is it different from any other relationship?

[voxelectronica]

I'm not sure I understand. The scenario that I mapped out was being with a Dom as a Dom and having subs for the both of us.

[Pearlgem]

Is the child to be considered some sort of property?

[voxelectronica]

Is the child to be considered some sort of property?

No the child would be, a child. My child (my as in my Dominant partner's and I child). Normal surrogate "exchange".

[Pearlgem]

Hmm, mothering rights are a lot to give up for any woman, much less a recently pregnant sub/slave who's under obedience to you. Strikes me as a potentially messy and sad situation you're describing here.

[voxelectronica]

Well that's the case in almost any surrogate procedure. Though the child would be biologically mine.

[Pearlgem]

Wouldn't you have the birth sub/slave in contact with the child she doesn't mother? Most surrogates don't have this level of contact for very good reason.

[voxelectronica]

Wouldn't you have the birth sub/slave in contact with the child she doesn't mother? Most surrogates don't have this level of contact for very good reason.

Very good point! So if by some grace of god I managed to get everything I wanted what i would be looking for would be a live in surrogates who would allow me to control her as a sub.

I've obviously been thinking of this and I'm starting to think that no matter the practically I'm not as open to a surrogate as I though unless I have control of the mother. The idea that my child would be living in someones home and eating their food while developing doesn't settle well with me. (of course not literally eating their food).

[leah06]

This is a real slavery fantasy - the slave bears the child for the owner's use (in this case to raise as her own; yes I know that you've added the twist that it would be your biological child) and remains as a slave in the household to provide menial services, such as babysitting and nursing. I suppose I could barely imagine someone actually getting into that, as a Dom/me or a sub.

In reality? Can you imagine how totally twisted that child would be? I'm glad that there are probably too many real-world impediments to trying to realize this one.

[voxelectronica]

This is a real slavery fantasy - the slave bears the child for the owner's use (in this case to raise as her own; yes I know that you've added the twist that it would be your biological child) and remains as a slave in the household to provide menial services, such as babysitting and nursing. I suppose I could barely imagine someone actually getting into that, as a Dom/me or a sub.

In reality? Can you imagine how totally twisted that child would be? I'm glad that there are probably too many real-world impediments to trying to realize this one.

I don't actually see the problem. Someone is going to have to at some point let my child develop in their womb. That's a pretty big reality. The majority of my friends would not be qualified for this and the ones who would be don't ever want to have children. So I would have to hire a complete stranger to do this for me. This idea is terrifying to me. I don't know what they're going to do. What if they smoke really quick one day? What if they aren't eating right? I know that normal agencies keep track of things like that but I don't believe in "agencies" keeping track of things.

Assuming you ever told the kid (because there's really no point) what's more weird "Mommy had to pay a stranger who we will never talk to, to have you for her because her insides are broken" or "Mommy had her good sweet friend who is always around have you for her because her insides are broken"?

I don't see the difference between sub and let's say friend or sister. Though I'm sure to others this may sound like their sexual fantasy for me it's not.

(sorry if i sound frustrated... Brain freeze while typing).

[damyanti]

Having a child is not a right.

[Arria]

@ voxelectronica: Having a Caesarean section would not be an option for you?

I did practical studies with midwives for 6 weeks and saw 38 children born, two of them Caesarean sections. One was an emergency, and the other was planned, because it was known she could not survive a normal birth, hence the section was planned and done. It all went well.

As for the question itself: I might be old-fashioned, but having a child should imho not have to do anything with any purely BDSM issue. The idea horrifies me.
What if the couple breaks up? "Sorry, I only gave birth to you because my Dom wanted it, now he´s gone, and I don´t want you anymore, either?"

*shudders*

A child should be born to people who love each other, or to someone who wants it (even if the partnership does not work out in the long run).
The idea of using pregnancy as an instrument of power makes my flesh crawl.

[voxelectronica]

@ voxelectronica: Having a Caesarean section would not be an option for you?

I can have one. I have sever risk of premature labor and delivering naturally would kill me.

As for the question itself: I might be old-fashioned, but having a child should imho not have to do anything with any purely BDSM issue. The idea horrifies me.
What if the couple breaks up? "Sorry, I only gave birth to you because my Dom wanted it, now he´s gone, and I don´t want you anymore, either?"

What if any couple breaks up? I either have poorly represented the idea here or it's not being caught on to. Me as Dominant my partner as Dominant sub as surrogate. To my knowledge surrogate parents play next to NO role in a child's development outside of the womb.

A child should be born to people who love each other, or to someone who wants it (even if the partnership does not work out in the long run).

Well that isn't the case in surrogate pregnancies. The child is born to someone who is contracted to have said child and then given to it's (often) biological parents.

The idea of using pregnancy as an instrument of power makes my flesh crawl.

Which it isn't actually not in this scenario. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear in the statement on not forcing someone to be a surrogate.

I'm actually really puzzled by the responses.

[TwistedTails]

Vox, First my assumptions... Your Dom/Dom relationship is Male/Female, Your relationship is permanent (as much as any other). Then, yes a surrogate mother is appropriate for your situation. Whether the surrogate was sub or not would really be up to you and your "other". I can see where this would be a good thing. For one, as you stated, you could control what they eat and do while they grow your child and you could be there for the entire pregnancy.

But for the reality side of the coin, finding a Submissive surrogate may be difficult. Women in the surrogate program are screened to make sure that neither they, or you will be damaged by the eventual separation from the baby, or when the surrogate leaves your family. That very screening process may make your wish difficult to fulfill.

Loving parents to raise the child are much more important that who actually gave birth.
And before anyone asks "Why a M/F couple?" I used that example A. because it avoids the traps of legal rights. If the child is wholly the product of the couple, then the surrogate has no legal rights to the child while a "birth mother" would retain certain legal rights. And B. Vox made it clear that this would be "Her" child as in Her egg (correct me if I'm wrong).

As for the original question...No. I would not have a sub carry my child just for the sake of having one, but I would use a surrogate if necessary.

[tusayan]

But for the reality side of the coin, finding a Submissive surrogate may be difficult. Women in the surrogate program are screened to make sure that neither they, or you will be damaged by the eventual separation from the baby, or when the surrogate leaves your family. That very screening process may make your wish difficult to fulfill.

I had a similar question regarding what happens once the child is actually here. If they are your sub are they living with you, will they continue living with you?

Let's say, for argument's sake, that the very real obstacles Twisted Tails brings up can be put aside in terms of the screening process; how will you handle the very complex and intense relationship between the surrogate, the two parents and child? How do you manage the emotional issues that, IMO, would inevitably arise? Would you then release the sub? Would that be understood from the beginning? What might be the emotional fall out?

It might be relatively easy to look someone you love in the eyes and tell them introducing the new life into the world won't change anything because the only tangible love is between you and them. However, once that new life is here, there is the potential for new, tangible and intense attachments.

It's an interesting scenario, but real world messiness is the looming issue and I have trouble thinking of any good solutions for the issues. I would think it would actually be more feasible if it were a sub that was not in a relationship with either of the Dominants in question.

[voxelectronica]

Twisted upi are correct. The reason why i would use a sub of any kind is simple. I would want something more hands one. As a switch leaning towards Dom it's hard for me to let go of control. A surrogate i could not control is almost... heart breaking.

[Jayden McZimmer]

well i have read all the posts and it makes me think of the movie baby mama. the surrogate mother is a horrible eater and she doesn't care if she smokes or drinks and parties. i can see why someone would want to control the surrogate mother, it is after all their baby even if its not in their stomach.

i can't see this happening in real life...well maybe if you found a surrogate first, then brought up the bdsm aspect and she was into it.

the only difference is she would be a pregnant sub rather than just a sub.

[claire]

My reaction to this is it would take three very special people. It might work if this were a true polyamorous triangle or quad. You said something about both doms having their own sub. I think the child and the adults would need to have all the adults involved in parenting decisions. Just as a couple who have a child may have different ideas of child rearing and different roles in rearing the child, I think the sub would also need to be involved in rearing the child in a similar identified or agreed upon role. The baby and later child needs love and security, with consistency and stability being part of that security. It does not know that having three or four adults who love and guide it is not "normal" at least not until it gets to school.

I would wonder about bonding though. Is the sub going to nurse the child? Would you try to induce lactation in yourself? Would you bottle feed? How would the sub feel about you nursing the child while she was drying up? Nursing is clearly what is best for the child and the mother who has delivered the child.

If you later broke up, what if any visitation rights would the sub have. That is an awful lot of emotional energy to invest in a child to later have no rights. I think the roles and the ifs would have to be very clearly decided beforehand, with the expectation that after the child arrives emotions may differ from what was predicted. The child is not a possession. It's well being would have to be the basis of all decision making.

Due to personality differences etc. A child will often bond more strongly with one adult than the other. what would happen if the child's strongest bond was with the sub and you later separated. Could you handle only having visitation rights, because that is what is emotionally best for the child? Even though your DNA will be a part of the child, the subs hormones and biochemistry will strongly influence its development while in her womb. One might then argue that biologically the child is equally a part of her.

This is a very complex issue and would have to be well thought out and legally spelled out before hand. If our society was more commonly polygamous, it might not be such a big issue, as such contingencies would have already have become custom, but you would be breaking really new ground here.

[damyanti]

One could say how interesting it is to read everyone here so concerned to find the solution that works for "mommy"..... You forget the most important thing in this whole story, IT SHOULD BE IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD.

I understand that this is something you may not be aware of, because we have all been spoon fed the happy utopia crap by adoption agencies, sperm banks, surrogate agencies and everyone else who stands to profit money.

But here is the reality...I have read dozens of impartial studies and HUNDREDS of testimonials from "children" (DC- donor conceived, surrogacy babies, adoptees), who are now adults and are speaking up against and for the reform of the current system.

Your egg or not, that child would have grow and bonded with another woman, in her body, and for all intense and purposes, as far as that baby is concerned, she is his mother. No matter how soon you do it, that child will suffer from separation anxiety. And one of the worst things you could do, as you have already suggested, is to not tell the child at all.

It is a very complicated situation and one most people take too lightly. I urge you that you start reading blogs from adults born of surrogacy, surrogate mothers and "parents"...and not the "all is peachy" ones, but from those who have been through it and are now arguing against it.

I am not saying it cant work, but your first concern should be how it will affect the child. And this is something that will affect him/her, just because we choose to ignore or guilt them into hiding their loss (and it is a loss), it wont mean that it isn't there and that one day you wont end up with a child who will be labeled "angry" or "you just had a bad experience" (it is not an easy thing to digest that most of these "children" had happy childhoods, are successful adults, and yet they are speaking against it all).

Wanting to have a baby (regardless in what way), and regardless of how selfless we plan to be as parents, is primarily a very selfish want. If this is the choice you make, you owe it to your child to educate yourself on all the additional problems and feelings they will face. Please remember that things should ALWAYS be done in the best interest of the child.

[voxelectronica]

interesting. That is something to look into.

[Kahlann]

Personally I can only thing of trouble that could come from using a sub as a surrogate. An impartial 3rd party is probably the best solution.
Being in complete control of them can also cause problems even if it was a sub, again bad idea in my mind. Regulating everything could cause stress which will harm the baby. Having never researched it I can't know for sure. But knowing the lawsuit happy world we live in, I would think the angency would be very very selective in their choosing surrogates. Obviously there are doctors appointments to monitor and test to make sure they are taking care of themselves properly. I'm fairly certain they would have to follow the diets the doctors give or again lawsuit central possibly from the angency if they went against the contract I assume they would have to sign.

[Veralynne]

I'm sorry if I missed this... but is the sub being compensated in any form?

[satisfied]

Vox: Okay. I understand your question. You are in a committed relationship. You need someone to surrogate for you. Normal surrogate situation except that you want total control over what the surrogate is doing with and to her body while she is carrying your child.

I have always thought the idea of carrying a child for someone else would be a very difficult yet rewarding experience. Given that I have thoroughly checked out the potential parents and get the feeling that they have a stable lasting relationship. Would I sub to them? No. Would I allow them to have a say in what I put into my body while I am carrying their child? Probably. Though I would not be willing to move into their home just so they could monitor me for nine months. I would want to keep my own space and my own life as close to normal as possible.

I can't answer honestly about being in the exact situation you describe because I am not someone who could sub to a Dom in a relationship with someone else. To do this for a friend though? Yes. I would do this for a friend. I would expect her to be involved as much as possible.

[blossom]

i know children are special, and if i wasnt in a relationship i would offer to be a surrogate, to be able to give someone such a special gift, which they couldnt give them selfs would be an honour. some people i see i think dont deserve children, and then others who truly want to love and be a mother/farther find it difficult and face obstcles that they shouldnt have to.

i wouldnt mind being from a surrogate mother, it would make me feel i was wanted so much that my mum would go to any lengths to have me.

but thats my opinion