i've been reading this thread and find it very interesting. Both viewpoints are very valid. When i first discovered bdsm, i completely agreed with TG in that the submissive ultimately retained control in that she could always use the safeword or set hard limits. However, i have learned about not having a say in how a scene progresses, and in the right situation, i can agree with Eraser's point of view. Personally, i think it depends upon the two who are involved and what works for them. Neither side is right or wrong, just different. For instance... if i was sceneing with someone in a club, i would NOT give up complete control. However, if it were with someone that i had a relationship with and the trust and love were there...then it would be different. The way i see it, each relationship is different, each with different levels of control.