Inner Conflict

[jeanne]

For those who need the relief from everyday life, it's no different than taking a vacation.

I'm with Tufty on this - Oz has it right. Only one thing to focus on - his pleasure and satisfaction. It's very freeing and a peaceful (yes, even when it hurts) place to be.

[His_little one]

I'm with Tufty on this - Oz has it right. Only one thing to focus on - his pleasure and satisfaction. It's very freeing and a peaceful (yes, even when it hurts) place to be.

Very well said....

I think the "questioning" of oneself is pretty common for submissives, especially in the beginning stages of a relationship. Part of it is letting go of the control you're so used to having in every day life and I think an even larger part of it is accepting that someone wants to be with you BECAUSE of that submissive side. Society has spent years programming us females to be all strong and independent and accepting that the 2 sides can coexist within you is not an easy feat.

From personal experience I am dominant in my every day life but when it comes to relationships i believe the man should be in control. Like Kote I will try to control him if I can -- not necessarily on purpose but as more of a subconscious test i guess. If he lets me control the relationship I get bored and lose respect. I guess that's where the scorpio in me comes in to play -- we'll control anyone that we see as weak or anyone that will let us. Ultimately, it’s that place of peace where his pleasure, will, and satisfaction are all that matter to me that I desire to get.

[jeanne]

...I think an even larger part of it is accepting that someone wants to be with you BECAUSE of that submissive side.

Exactly!! And that he doesn't have to be a sick, twisted individual in order to appreciate it. Actually, sick, twisted individuals wouldn't appreciate it, they'd just use it. In a bad way.

Ultimately, it’s that place of peace where his pleasure, will, and satisfaction are all that matter to me that I desire to get.

It's worth the work to get there. Oh yes it is.

[Ozme52]

Only one thing to focus on - his pleasure and satisfaction. It's very freeing and a peaceful (yes, even when it hurts) place to be.

Now THAT is what I call a great attitude.

[jeanne]

Now THAT is what I call a great attitude.

Why, thank you. Thank you very much! I have an awesome teacher.

[Playfulsub]

From personal experience I am dominant in my every day life but when it comes to relationships i believe the man should be in control. Like Kote I will try to control him if I can -- not necessarily on purpose but as more of a subconscious test i guess. If he lets me control the relationship I get bored and lose respect.

This is exactly true for me. The right Dom for me would have to be able to see through this and know what I'm doing. I can't tell you the number of times I've been manipulative and played little games to see if I would be caught. I want to be caught! A Dom who could see what I'm doing will be my intellectual equal, and it would have to be that way, for me to be able to submit.

[Ozme52]

This is exactly true for me. The right Dom for me would have to be able to see through this and know what I'm doing. I can't tell you the number of times I've been manipulative and played little games to see if I would be caught. I want to be caught! A Dom who could see what I'm doing will be my intellectual equal, and it would have to be that way, for me to be able to submit.

Maybe..... but only maybe.

Wouldn't you prefer someone whose attention to you obliviated the need to test him, who made you feel so content and cared for in your submission that the thought, the need to test him... was entirely sublimated, subsumed, subdued.

Then you could contentedly devote all your efforts to pleasing him.

[Ozme52]

I guess that's where the scorpio in me comes in to play -- we'll control anyone that we see as weak or anyone that will let us.

So the key is to determine that up front... and not after you've made the commitment to serve.

Ultimately, it’s that place of peace where his pleasure, will, and satisfaction are all that matter to me that I desire to get.

Which is also my point of view... or is that already obvious?

[Playfulsub]

Maybe..... but only maybe.

Wouldn't you prefer someone whose attention to you obliviated the need to test him, who made you feel so content and cared for in your submission that the thought, the need to test him... was entirely sublimated, subsumed, subdued.

Then you could contentedly devote all your efforts to pleasing him.

Yes, I would love that. So far, I've never found someone like that.

[jeanne]

Maybe..... but only maybe.

Wouldn't you prefer someone whose attention to you obliviated the need to test him, who made you feel so content and cared for in your submission that the thought, the need to test him... was entirely sublimated, subsumed, subdued.

Then you could contentedly devote all your efforts to pleasing him.

Only a few are lucky enough to find one who pays that kind of attention. I'm one of the lucky few.

[Sir_Russell]

Why is it that so many subs want to give up control but also want the Dom to be a mind reader. It shows that you don't respect the one you want and that is sad. I just left a relationship where she wanted me as her Dom but she could not stop testing me to see if she could get her way. Instead a Dom, a real one, will rebel against that type of behavior and become either physically forceful or withdraw. Now if what you want is to trigger rage then test often, never be satisfied with what you have, let him know in those subtle ways that you don't trust or believe in him.

Life is way to short for me to want to play childish games or games that I can't win, ie mind reading. Be honest first with yourself about the reasons you test, we all have faults and short comings, if you expect a perfect Dom I just don't know of one.

[Playfulsub]

Life is way to short for me to want to play childish games or games that I can't win, ie mind reading. Be honest first with yourself about the reasons you test, we all have faults and short comings, if you expect a perfect Dom I just don't know of one.

You are absolutely right, Sir Russell. My experience with Doms has been 90% online. As I'm sure you know, there are many, many "wannabes" out there who call themselves Doms but are far from it. I can't tell you how many times I've been approached in a chat room by a "Dom" demanding that I call him Sir immediately, and throwing orders my way expecting me to follow them when I've just met him! I guess my guard is up a bit and I test to see if a Dom is really a Dom and not just some horny top who wants to call me nasty names while he cyber fucks me. Apparently, I've been looking in all the wrong places.

[Sir_Russell]

LOL, Playfulsub,
Sorry I know that you have to test a Dom probably even more in on-line settings. I am just bitter I guess having to walk away from the woman, slave, I wanted to spend the rest of my life with due to that kind of behavior.

As a Master I become totally engrossed with the woman that I select and once I have proven myself as both a man and as a Dom/Master I want that testing to stop. When it doesn't and goes on and on just to trigger a reaction then I will release for both of our goods, even when that is beyond painful to me.

I am searching for my one and willing to talk to you about anything to do with the Life or who you want to be.

[Sir_Russell]

delia,
I understand the need to test a Dom/Master and I think you agreed with me that once control and respect has been established then testing is no longer needed.

If not, if you are one of those that have to be all ways testing to see if you can cause your Dom to react then you are topping from the bottom. I just don't respond to that type of testing once I have proven myself. I am the one who is in charge or in control but I also believe that her submission is a gift that she has the right to withdraw. Constant testing tells me she needs someone that offer other then I offer.

[Tufty]

So my advice? If you are a sub that likes to push... try what I almost failed to try in time: use your words. They explain things that your body never can, that your Dominant can't "sense".

Communication, like all things in lifestyle, is a two way street.

Absolutely right! I had a wonderful relationship with a lady a few years ago - and if I hadn't talked to her about my 'sub' side, I would never have realiesd that she had a Domme side...and she had never found a male sub to play with.

There's always a 50/50 chance in life (better than most odds) and it will either be a 'yes' or a 'no'...but you won't know until you talk about it.

[Wedjat]

I've read this entire thread in one sitting, and I feel like I should say something, but not sure where to start.

I was talking yesterday with my friend and mentor on this site (you know who you are, Sir : ) and made the comment that you really can't judge anyone except as an individual - something I believe very deeply. That's the real problem with any stereotype - they're always wrong on an individual level even if they fit some general classification. I think that works here too. While we may even see ourselves as various labels, we are all still individuals struggling to figure out who we are and how we might fit in, when it all really comes down to how two people can best mesh their lives. That's true of any relationship, bdsm or not. There are just different labels here to work through.

Feminist is one label, submissive another one, and I don't see why they can't co-exist. I've struggled with the concept of combining the two as well, and there have been some very good comments on this thread that have helped me too. Each person has to work it out for him or herself. In the so-called idealized relationship of 1950's 60's TV women were basically subservient, but weren't really getting much out of it to my mind. I think being submissive in an equal relationship, where both parties respect and care about the other is something to shoot for and shouldn't make the woman less than she is. Feminism shouldn't be about one gender being better than the other, but respecting each other - I think a lot of feminists have wanted respect without returning it or earning it. I like what my friend has said about submission being a gift and the comments that a good submissive should be strong. For me,that type of submission would be very freeing to be myself, and if that isn't femininism I don't know what is.

More personally, I have never,ever understood women who see the need to test someone else's affection - it really just doesn't make sense to me. I hope that doesn't sound judgemental, I just want to say that even the label of 'female' shouldn't include an assumption that ALL women are like that. Do some women act that way because they think they're supposed to? or have been socialized to it? or saw their mothers do that sort of thing? The answers are as individual as each person.

Geez, I'm really rambling here, I'll shut up now : )

[Sir_Russell]

Wedjat
Well said and well thought out. I only have one question who is this handsome, intelligent, all knowing mentor you speak of.

Very proud of your writing.

[jeanne]

...and if that isn't femininism I don't know what is.

Very well said!

[Wedjat]

Thank you Jeanne, and thank you too Sir, that means a lot to me. Did I mention that he's humble too? : )

[Ozme52]

Well... pushing and testing is all well and good... and probably necessary in most cases, perhaps all online cases. But sometimes, you find the perfect round peg to fit in the perfect round hole.

And all that 'conflict' proves to be unnecessary. I haven't felt pushed or tested and she doesn't seem to have the need to try. We learn what each the other needs and desires as we take the journey together.

Yet our time together has been exquisitely intense... yet immensely comfortable.

[Playfulsub]

I can understand why that would make one bitter. I guess we all come with our 'baggage' - so to speak.

I would love to trust a Dom to the point where the testing will stop. And I believe it will happen eventually. My 'baggage' is trusting someone with my emotional well-being.

LOL, Playfulsub,
Sorry I know that you have to test a Dom probably even more in on-line settings. I am just bitter I guess having to walk away from the woman, slave, I wanted to spend the rest of my life with due to that kind of behavior.

As a Master I become totally engrossed with the woman that I select and once I have proven myself as both a man and as a Dom/Master I want that testing to stop. When it doesn't and goes on and on just to trigger a reaction then I will release for both of our goods, even when that is beyond painful to me.

I am searching for my one and willing to talk to you about anything to do with the Life or who you want to be.

[His_little one]

I don’t think testing is necessarily something subs set out to do. We don’t try to be sneaky and manipulative – I think “testing” is just a way of our insecurities coming out and more often than not the act of testing is unconscious—I used to do it as a way to get my Dom to show me he was dedicated to me and the relationship or if I sensed some sort of weakness. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending what I was doing or even saying that I concocted some scheme or formula for doing so. And honestly, no matter what the outcome was, I always felt guilt ridden for having disrespected my Dom by testing him but at that point I didn’t understand there was a way to communicate my feelings and thoughts, I always had this notion of well I show him my dedication and love through my submission and it’s obvious so why isn’t his love and dedication to me so obvious? At that point I was far from understanding how Doms feel about being dedicated to someone that they dominate – I’ll be honest, I still don’t understand it but when it comes to my current relationship I’ve thrown caution to the wind and I trust what it is, I don’t question it.

I’ll be honest, I always thought I’d be a sub that tested but I guess like everything else the key, as Oz put it, is “finding the perfect round peg.” I am in a relatively new relationship with my Dom but he’s completely brought out another side of my submission that I didn’t know existed. It’s natural – I don’t fight it and I don’t question it. Without even realizing it I dropped any baggage I had and gave him a clean slate. I’ve freely given him trust and he’s more than earned to keep it and instead of giving him some shitty pass/fail test in which to show me his love and dedication I’ve given him the time and space to show it on his own – I feel it when he touches me and holds me and I see it in the way he looks at me. It feels far better than the result of any test could and honestly, nothing has ever felt so amazing.

[Flaming_Redhead]

Are there others who seem to have this inner conflict? How do you reconcile the two vastly different sides of yourself? Is it possible to retain that side of yourself, and still be completely His (when you find your Dom)?

Another question. I am currently in a relationship that is developing, we have not yet been intimate beyond what can be accomplished over the internet. He seems willing to test the waters of this with me, but I have concerns. I'm worried that, because He is not Dom by nature that He will never truly be able to fulfill that role the way I so need him to.

I had a great deal of inner conflict when I began exploring this lifestyle. On the one hand, I craved more than anything to find someone who would take control, but on the other hand, I was terrified to let anyone take control. I have reconciled the 2 vastly different sides of myself because one of them is merely a facade for the benefit of the outside world. The other side is my true self which the world has tried to destroy over and over and over. I had been "pretending" to be a bitch, i.e. strong, independent woman, for years because if you're not, people will run all over you. I learned early in life that people will use you and abuse you if you let them, and there's not very many people you can trust or depend on to help you. I have no problem anymore standing up for myself or others when I feel a serious wrong has been committed. I've become comfortable being a bitch because it's safe. However, I'm not really comfortable being in charge of others. It's not me. It's not what I want, but people perceive me a certain way and then put me in a position to make decisions. If I feel you can't make good decisions or just won't make a decision, then I have no choice but to take control. Even though it might be empowering, I hate it! I'm really a subbie at heart, but I keep it hidden. I've been slowly revealing it to my dom because he's passed all the "testing." My testing him comes from my inability to trust that he has my best interest at heart. I don't need to test him anymore. I'm satified that he's the real deal. So, yes, I can be completely his, but the rest of the world can kiss my ass! They don't have my best interest at heart.

As far as this budding relationship with a vanilla goes, I wouldn't recommend it. Why waste your time and his? Guys will say anything to get with you, but if he's not really dominant, then you'll only end up frustrated and unhappy. Sure, he may want to "try" it....how many times have I heard that? Hm...2-3 times last year...but their hearts weren't in it. Don't settle for anything less than what you want and need in a partner!

[caligirl{Rob}]

i look at it as my strength, ability and willingness to handle my everyday life makes my submission to Him a more precious gift

hugs,
cali

[Playfulsub]

I had a great deal of inner conflict when I began exploring this lifestyle. On the one hand, I craved more than anything to find someone who would take control, but on the other hand, I was terrified to let anyone take control. I have reconciled the 2 vastly different sides of myself because one of them is merely a facade for the benefit of the outside world. The other side is my true self which the world has tried to destroy over and over and over. I had been "pretending" to be a bitch, i.e. strong, independent woman, for years because if you're not, people will run all over you. I learned early in life that people will use you and abuse you if you let them, and there's not very many people you can trust or depend on to help you. I have no problem anymore standing up for myself or others when I feel a serious wrong has been committed. I've become comfortable being a bitch because it's safe. However, I'm not really comfortable being in charge of others. It's not me. It's not what I want, but people perceive me a certain way and then put me in a position to make decisions. If I feel you can't make good decisions or just won't make a decision, then I have no choice but to take control. Even though it might be empowering, I hate it! I'm really a subbie at heart, but I keep it hidden. I've been slowly revealing it to my dom because he's passed all the "testing." My testing him comes from my inability to trust that he has my best interest at heart. I don't need to test him anymore. I'm satified that he's the real deal. So, yes, I can be completely his, but the rest of the world can kiss my ass! They don't have my best interest at heart.

Wow, thank you for putting this into words. This is also me, to a T.

[Wedjat]

His little one, I'm so happy for you . It's nice to see the support all of the subs on here are giving to each other too.

[His_little one]

Thanks Wedjat. I agree --I think it's great how supportive everyone is on this site. I've been on other forum sites that are no where near as sincere as it is here -- It's great to be able to share your thoughts and feelings and have them be respected and appreciated even if everyone doesn't necessarily agree.

[jeanne]

...but he’s completely brought out another side of my submission that I didn’t know existed. It’s natural – I don’t fight it and I don’t question it.

...nothing has ever felt so amazing.

You put that into words so perfectly.

[deigja]

I have looked over this thread now several times as i´m currently stuck in another conflict myself which I still have to sort out.
I´m kind of a controll freak, always trying to be on the safe side, backing away from everything risky and by this even blockig myself.
I´m torn between my longing to give up control, to feel, to quit thinking and give myself to a man, and my urge to protect myself.
I do this by controlling everything, planning everything.
To the outside this gives me the air of cool selfconfidence that i only wear for others to see. On the inside its more a denial of my feelings to keep myself from beeing hurt.
So my conflict is not between beeing dominant and beeing submissive at the same time on different levels, but between my selfprotection and my wish to totally open up towards someone...giving control to him, showing him my whole self and thus making myself vulnerable

bye
deigja

[deigja]

I have looked over this thread now several times as i´m currently stuck in another conflict myself which I still have to sort out.
I´m kind of a controll freak, always trying to be on the safe side, backing away from everything risky and by this even blockig myself.
I´m torn between my longing to give up control, to feel, to quit thinking and give myself to a man, and my urge to protect myself.
I do this by controlling everything, planning everything.
To the outside this gives me the air of cool selfconfidence that i only wear for others to see. On the inside its more a denial of my feelings to keep myself from beeing hurt.
So my conflict is not between beeing dominant and beeing submissive at the same time on different levels, but between my selfprotection and my wish to totally open up towards someone...giving control to him, showing him my whole self and thus making myself vulnerable

bye
deigja