How has abuse affected your life in BDSM?

[ashtonDs]

Recently, a thread I participated in talked about abuse shaping the lives of submissives. It really rattled me since I am a switch who leans more to the submissive side and am a past victim of abuse. But, since I am a switch, I see that this episode in my life really affects both my Dom side and my subbie side. Also, I'm a guy.

So, since I'm asking the question it's only fair I go first.

I've liked the feeling of being tied up since I was five. It's really hard to find a Dom/me at that age so I tied myself. In playing as a kid I enjoyed tying other up other kids too. This could have been a story where the announcer says, "And the rest is History!" but then I got into the fourth grade.

I suppose I wasn't quite the fourth grader all the other kids in my class were, and for good reason, I skipped kindergarten and went right into first grade. So, I was really a year behind all my classmates emotionally. My teacher, a woman, took it upon herself to poke fun and humiliate me, sometimes in front of the class.

My life about that time was really hell. I felt beaten down and retreated into myself. It was eigth grade before I had any real friends in school. (I did at home only because the guys on my street went to a different school and knew nothing about my teacher from you know where.)

My whole outlook on BDSM is still affected by that experience. Even though I can be quite the submissive at times, I love making people happy and like to serve, I am terribly afraid of totally letting go. It's a lonely sub life when you are hetrosexual and afraid of submitting to a woman.

As someone with a Dom side, I'm afraid that I'll go overboard and hurt someone. And I have a very hard time with humiliation, after having gone through so much of it. I can't see myself just settling comfortably into either role. Sometimes I kind of feel like damaged goods, a feeling that even on the Island of Misfit Toys, I won't fit in.

Well, there it is then. Please don't feel like you have to go into all your gory details. But the question is: How does past abuse affect your life in BDSM? And I know that it's not just subs, there are some Dom/mes out there with this problem too.

[fetishdj]

I can't say that abuse has affected me in anyway because I was never abused at all. I am not sure there is such a simple cause and effect relationship between childhood stimuli and adult psychology. Certainly not as simple as some may make out. The old bugbear of the the 'nature/nurture' debate rears its ugly head once more and makes anyone who has studied psychology groan as it seems to be a debate that can never be resolved. Well, not so long as many of those who insist on arguing it insist that there is an answer which satisfies one of the polar opposites.

We are all genetically predisposed to certain behaviours but we sometimes need an external, environmental stimulus to make us realise that fact. Nature and nurture conspire to create an individual who is complex and intricate and which really should not be so readily defined.

On the subject of abuse: this is a delicate subject and one which needs to be approached with sensitivity. However, I think what it does to your psychology is not so much the fact that it happened at all but rather a combination of intrinsic tendencies and how you react to it having happened.

[Polaris]

I believe that letting go is a difficult thing to do for everyone, abusive past or not. Having lived through a situation where you were betrayed possibly makes it harder to do it again, and the more often it happens the harder it gets (does that make sense?).

Firstly, I do not think that it is my past that has led me to be what I am now. It's two different things that overlap occasionally (which, I admit, stresses me out at times), but I am absolutely certain that I am not a submissive simply because of some trauma. It's hard to explain so possibly this doesn't make much sense -- it's the best I can put it. That said, past experiences influence all of us. I know the 'damaged goods' feeling all too intimately myself. Of course something that profoundly influences my life also influences everything BDSM.

I think the biggest problem -- and topic, at that -- is trust. I have some major trust issues, and although he knows about my past pretty minutely (I honestly think it's important -- I react irrationally at times) I believe it hurts him at times (although I know he understands, but it's difficult nonetheless). It's not that I don't trust him. I trust him to stay within my physical limits. I trust him to untie me before my hands fall off. I trust him to not inflict more pain than I can take. I trust him to do what's right when I don't really know what's right myself. I don't trust him emotionally, though. Not because I believe he would betray my trust. I simply can't trust anyone with my emotional safety. Letting go? Happens. Rarely. After he has been patient with me for hours and took one mini step after the other. I hope that at some point it will get better -- reconditioning myself, so to speak.

It is a bugger. I feel at times that I carry the past around with me with every step I take. I hate the fact that I won't allow myself to be as close to anyone because the last person (and only person at that) I allowed to get close to me simply...hurt me. Broke me. Damaged me beyond repair. But then I think healing is not an impossible thing to do. It's issues you can work through. I'm smarter now than I was a year ago. If this process continues, I'll maybe make it by the year 3000 But seriously, what I'm trying to say is that I believe that it is possible to re-learn to let go, to trust, to be vulnerable -- with time, and with a partner who knows and understands. Well, I hope so at least

[fetishdj]

I find it surprising that you can let go physically but not emotionally. Not that I think this is a particular problem, I merely find it interesting from an academic viewpoint.

Just to let you know (as I am sure you do know anyway): Trust will come with the right person and at the right time. You both just have to have patience. The scars will always be there but they get less painful with time and care.

BTW, I really like you avatar!

[Ownedfyre (mm1)]

I was sexually abused by my own father when I was four years old. I also watched him beat my mother. I told someone what he had done to me and I never saw him again. He was out of our lives. I remembered it though. In the sixth grade I had a kind of meltdown over it and dealt with it. I have dealt with it many times, the last time in my early twenties, and I can honestly say that when I talk about it now it is like I am talking about a book I read or something inconsequential in my life. Since then I have been fine. I don't let it effect my life anymore. My predilection for submission is something special to me. I cherish it, I hold onto it and I revel in it. I would never in a million Sundays associate it with the horrible things that happened to me as a child. That abuse made me feel inadequate and ugly. Shameful and dirty. When I am submissive to Him, I feel joy, happiness, self worth and it makes me complete! Maybe the abuse made me stronger as a person and more able to deal with some of the really horrible things I have been through in my life, but it is not something I would ever allow to permeate my happiness at being a submissive.

[Pertez]

I Promised to post this for a Friend
so here it goes

Talking about abuse not from a Submissive view but from a Dom's View
i met a nice guy about 1 Year ago,On Another Dutch site, he's been a Member for a while
(i promised not to mention his name)
you can understand why
its nothing to share so easy among People

He's a been a Dominant male for more than 30 years
But the Abuse in his yought at the age of 3 until his 9th year
has left him with a really big scar that wont go away so easy
he struggles with it for years now
Until he met this wonderfull couple on the Board
a Master and His Sub a Few months back
"she"helped him with dealing with the past and Learned him that it is nothing to be ashamed

of "He"(the master) has become a really good Friend of him
like i said he is a Dominant male and Never laid one finger on a Submissive
in his entire live
neither had Sex with a person after his abuse
The fear that he has of hurting people is so abnormal big
That he lives a Soletary live From the day of his abuse
to afraid to "Hurt" a Submissive woman
until the last time i spoke with him
he's become a really good Friend on mine in the last Year
After telling about some posts made here
Hes Member here too and he read every single post there is about "The Lifestyle"
But Never posts in it

he agreed that i told his story too (he speaks English worse than me )
Cant inmagine that

So Friend as Promised here it is
Respect to you !!

[bellelapine]

I think I have always been naturally submissive. I enjoy making people laugh, smile, just bringing a little bit of joy to them. As a kid I always had the ready jokes or bad puns, the funny (and often completely bullshit) stories to tell, or the physical humor like pretending to fall down.
I was what my godfather called an old soul in a new body, the way I would take to things. However, unfortunately as a child, I made a decision in the way of submission that has caused a great amount of pain for me. My elder brother began abusing me when I was four, and continued it off and on. The price of me telling would have been my little brother's life. I had no doubt in my mind that he would have hurt my baby brother (the little brother whose birth nearly killed him and my mom so I was super protective). At that time, my submission was a trade off. My pain for my brother's safety...my family remaining together.
As a result I actually ignored my submissive nature (after I finally confided in my family and my brother had moved out) and became more aggressive. I developed personality disorders,and became suicidal-trying hurting myself with food, knives, sex...I couldn't trust a man but I could have sex with them. I saw my mother, who is a submissive in many ways, as weak...I honestly think I partially blamed her for not seeing not knowing...but I honestly don't think now, she could have. But admittedly at the time seeing her submissive I thought it was that shy coy nature she had that didn't allow her to intervene. (as an aside she blames herself for not noticing but I was amazing at faking happiness).
It wasn't until my Sir that those walls actually started falling in on themselves. I trust Him as I haven't been able to trust anyone outside of my family (those of my family I trust) perhaps moreso. I still do an amazing amount of self abuse but Sir picks up on that easily (He can read me like a book) and W/we talk it out. I think my past and my innate nature has made me a stronger person, a better pet for Him and probably one of the most hyper protective savage mothers in existance (god help the man/woman that hurts my daughter).

[bellelapine]

...sorry computer was being silly

[sisterhoney61 {RW}]

I was never abused as a child. I'm natually submissive. Ever since puberty my sexual fantasies have always evolved around BDSM. All the erotica and porn that I read and wrote evolved around BDSM. That's just the way I am.

I didn't experience abuse until I was in my late 20s and into my late 30s when I was married to my first husband. It was a vanilla marriage (even though I was kinky, I kept those thoughts to myself). I experienced verbal, mental, emotional and physical abuse at his hands. At the end I was literally running for my life because he tried to murder me.

Those experiences badly affected my relationships with me afterwards. I had gone back to college at the age of 35. I went to a huge university, so I was surrounded by thousands of men on campus every day. However, I wanted nothing to do with any of them. I had built a wall around myself, my heart and my emotions. And I certainly didn't want a BDSM relationship with anyone. It took a couple of years but I was able to meet my Master online and He very gradually began to break down that wall around me. W/we have now been physically together for 8 1/2 years. It's been 12 years since my divorce, but I still suffer from PTSD from my earlier abuse. I still have nightmares about my ex. I still wake up in the middle of the night and make sure that it's Master and not my ex beside me in the bed.

I don't believe the abuse I suffered made me more submissive to Master. In a way it made me stronger. And it made me more appreciative of the really good men who are out there. Because of the abuse I refuse to let another man other than Master touch me. In my fantasies I love being shared with others. I love being used by several other men at once. In reality, I know that will never happen. But Master and I are both fine with that, because He would never share me anyway.

[gemmy]

Abuse is defined differently for many and we all react differently to it as well. Some common threads are there but I don't think it is ever something that goes away completely, at least not for myself.

I've always been the little sub that wanted to make people happy and went about my days quite happily doing so for my family. Then my family fell apart.

I was put, with my two sisters and one brother, with foster parents at the age of five and that's when my nightmare began and continued until I was 13 - 14 and left home to find more nightmares, running from one evil to another in a horrid catch 22 for years.

I was physically beaten almost daily by my step-monster mother and by as many implements as she could find at hand - wooden spoons, sticks, logs, toy race tracks (damn, those hurt and welt up quite badly), even canoe oars. She vented rage on me like I still have never seen from another human being, she hated me so so much. Along with that, was the verbal, mental, degrading emotional abuse. (that's the reader's digest lol there is much worse)

To further that, I was raped of my virginity at 13 by a stranger, again at 14 by my step-brother and yet again at 15 by my biological father - I didn't have consentual sex until I was 17.

So then I headlonged into a series of horribly abusive, both physical and mental, relationships until my daughter was born.

A lot of the early stuff is still a blank as I blacked certain horrors out. I have nightmares and things come back to me slowly but they are fairly far apart, thankfully.

All of that said, I've often wondered what part that plays in my likes within BDSM - I am a masochist (the daily beatings?), I do like humiliation (the emotional??), I have rape fantasies and of force (the rapes?) - there are similarities for sure. I still have no idea what they have to do with each other but they must cross lines for sure.

I have learned to recognize unhealthy, demeaning submission vs. healthy exploration and willing submission and I think it's through this 'healthy' submission that I can release a lot of what's bad still inside me. I've done a lot of work on my own for the sake of being sane enough to raise a sane daughter: for her to matter, I had to matter first and things changed from there and have been steadily changing since she was born.

All in all, coming out the other side, I do know one thing:

I'm a very strong person but don't trust easily or often on any deep level - it would be nice to learn to one day though - all things to look forward to

*sorry if this is tmi* :P

[butterflySlave4u]

All of that said, I've often wondered what part that plays in my likes within BDSM - I am a masochist (the daily beatings?), I do like humiliation (the emotional??), I have rape fantasies and of force (the rapes?) - there are similarities for sure. I still have no idea what they have to do with each other but they must cross lines for sure.


*sorry if this is tmi* :P

these things are true for me as well, all within a fantasy setting....and i think that's a clue...when fantasizing about those things, WE are in ultimate control...you're raped, yes, but the knife he holds to your throat to threaten you does not cut....

you are beaten, but under your own conditions...not on your back, over and over...but everywhere, and the strikes used, hit the places that feed your masochistic soul...

i've always considered it a form of mental healing, to fantasize this way...i've even been able to bend my own reality a bit, my memories of "how it really was" with my ex-husband...and it helps me to heal...

he was a egomanical sadist, in the truest sense, and the damage he caused will be with me until (and even beyond) death. But i survived, many that i knew didn't...and i know i'm stronger for it...

some damage remains...one of my strongest urges is "fight or flight"...and i won't fight, not even to defend myself...i've logged out of Yahoo on my poor Master more than once, thinking that something i've done isn't worthy of His attention, or just because i get scared and confused...but He has the patience of a saint, and sits there calmly until i calm down and log back in...smiles...and He's always there...makes me talk about it, face it, and stare it down....

do i think my abuse affects my BDSM life? absolutely...my desire to please stems from my fear of being abused more, for the most part...give him what he wants, and more, and maybe the belt stays in his beltloops tonight...it's a survival tool...

and Hugggggggggs to you gem, it was NOT tmi...

[stripedangel]

The abuses that i endured as a young adult were mostly brought on by me.....married the wrong guy, who beat me senseless and left my body broken in many ways. i left him for an even worse example, who talked to me so badly that my self esteem is blown to the point that Master has tried for 10 years to convince me that i'm beautiful, and i still have a hard time believing Him when he says it.

i was molested by a cousin when i was 12...this realization came back to me about 2 years ago when i was eating breakfast with the offending cousin.

i was raped when i was 13, and again a week later. i was a runaway, so i just shrugged it off both times and took it all inside.

As to how this applies in my submission......

i do have fantasies like gem mentioned. i had developed some personality disorders and have a hard time trusting anyone, for a minute...then i trust too much. Master is the only one i trust at all, with all of me. However, at times, it's even hard to trust Him. Sometimes the trust takes a bit of coaxing.

i have also discovered that BDSM helps me with many of the issues that i've been dealing with. i keep a cleaner house, for instance. Master helps me keep my tasks and priorities in order, because i'm not an organized person. Some things i'm more able to deal with now, than i was a year ago. i had to realise that i have worth, value, which i had never placed on myself prior to our change to this lifestyle. As a slave, i feel stronger than the abuses that plagued me, they cannot hurt me now, because i'm worth more than what i got in my other life. i stand up for myself now, and do it with the ability to be calm and mostly rational...for the most part lol. If i can take a serious asswhoopin like Master can dole out, then i can also handle the prick at the grocery store who asked me if i'd paid for my hat in front of everyone...oh, yeah, i was calm enough to let Master do the yelling and cussing!

For me, it isn't about the past-even though that's what has made us all what we are today. i can't change the fact that i was raped, but i can appreciate the stripey that the rapists left behind. i can't change the fact that i was beaten, but i know that i can withstand much more than that sonofabitch could ever do to me, the coward! i am who i am because of my life experiences.

And i like me (stewart smalley lol). i just have a hard time thanking Master for His sweet complements.

i will use gem as an example, since i've loved her way of advising folks around here--she is a product of her life experiences too. We all are, actually. Her abuses have molded her into someone who is very open-minded and understanding. This lady's resiliance shines through! gem is also quick to bring up logic and safety in her posts, where applicable. Would gem (or any of us, for that matter) be on this site today if she had not gone through all of that? who knows?

Would i? Would i have met Master if i'd not found the strength to leave those awful situations?

Would any of us be able to appreciate the safety and consentual play as we do now? Would we be here to show support to those who need it in the way that only a victim can be supportive?

These are burdens that we all carry. i believe that we carry them for a reason...maybe to speak a word of guidance to someone who needs it, thereby saving a life...who knows how we all effect the ones that we meet momentarily? a smile made my whole day better last week....just a smile. it affected everything that i did for the rest of the day.

Having said all of that.......here's to you all...victims and nonvictims...

May the best of your past be the worst of your future!

[denuseri]

well outside of being sorta sexually molested by my best girl friends dad in high school a few times, and some close calls over the years, when the word abuse is spoken i can only really think of the time i went to meet an online dom a few yrs ago before i hooked up with my now owner and husband,, it turned into 3 months of pure living hell:to say the least without going into gory details, it took six months of different surguries and another six months of agoraphobia before i was able to even think about sex again let alone bdsm,, obviously ive managed to cope and adjust, heck some would even say thrive, but it took lots of hard work and dedication, heck this site is even part of my therapy, a very big part at that, i would say abuse in general effects on many levels some we may not even be consious of, and as overwhelming as an abussive past may seem, it can (and i am proof of it) be overcome

[stripedangel]

well outside of being sorta sexually molested by my best girl friends dad in high school a few times, and some close calls over the years, when the word abuse is spoken i can only really think of the time i went to meet an online dom a few yrs ago before i hooked up with my now owner and husband,, it turned into 3 months of pure living hell:to say the least without going into gory details, it took six months of different surguries and another six months of agoraphobia before i was able to even think about sex again let alone bdsm,, obviously ive managed to cope and adjust, heck some would even say thrive, but it took lots of hard work and dedication, heck this site is even part of my therapy, a very big part at that, i would say abuse in general effects on many levels some we may not even be consious of, and as overwhelming as an abussive past may seem, it can (and i am proof of it) be overcome

Good post, denuseri! And good on you for getting past it all! We play the hand that's dealt us. We use each other to lean on when we're tired. Some of our burdens are heavy and we need help to carry them sometimes. Being able to connect with others on the same level means a lot.

[gemmy]

Having said all of that.......here's to you all...victims and nonvictims...

May the best of your past be the worst of your future!

stripey, there is so much in what you've said I completely relate to but this, I had to say....we aren't victims unless we choose to be - to be a victim pays homage to the abusers in our lives, gives them validation and credibility to continue their abuse by berating ourselves as they did, to move on, past, and be strong leaves them defenseless

We are survivors of the hardest made but the sweetest born

[ashtonDs]

It's quite an emotional ride for me, reading all these stories. I feel like I should maybe complete mine as I left out "the gory details" and many of you have not avoided sharing your own gory details.

The reason I had so much trouble with the beast in the fourth grade was her insatible appetite for extreme control. You couldn't even get permission to go to the bathroom without having to do an "extra page of spelling" for homework. At that time we didn't change classes and had the same teacher all day. So, if you do the math you can see homework can increase real quick, and I suppose you can see where all this is going. I had enough trouble getting everything done without adding extra homework, so I tried to wait for recess or lunch or dismissal to go. Most days I couldn't hold it. My folks went to the principal but were told there was nothing that they could do (about the teacher) and suggested they take me to the doctor to get me checked out for maybe a health problem. The beast hated me for it and went out of her way to humiliate me constantly. Of course, by then I had a reputation among my classmates that lasted for years.

On top of everything that woman was a nun. Since that time I've held a paticularly black hatred for nuns. Also, I can't stand people who enjoy humiliating others. Sometimes when I read of a Dom/me humiliating a sub or slave I feel like removing their face with a sledgehammer. The feelings are still that strong. (Apologies to those of you who engage in humiliation play. As long as it is play.)

Originally posted by fetishdj:
I find it surprising that you can let go physically but not emotionally.

fetishdj, The emotional scars are the toughest to heal, and sometimes they never do. They fade, but don't heal. And it's worse when it happens when you are a child. You are taught that adults are suppose to help you, to keep you safe. When they don't it makes everything worse. And worse again when an adult does the abusing. And in my case the adult was religious. This happened forty years ago. It is still painful.

When my oldest daughter was in second grade her teacher wrote the names of students who forgot their homework on the blackboard. My little one was very embarrassed because she had never been in trouble before and had never forgotten and assignment. My wife went to talk to the teacher alone (while I was at work) because she was afraid I was going to hurt her if I went. I wasn't planning on it but I was planning on great bodily harm if she humiliated my daughter again. Thank God for a loving wife.

Sometimes I wonder how different my life could have been. Even though I like ropework from both sides, I have a problem submitting. At least if I'm the Dom I know that the top won't hurt anyone.

Well...wow...whew. I've only told this story to my therapist and my wife. And I'll tell you it is really hard to type when the world is all blurry and wet from tears. (A couple of times the dog looked up at me with a look of concern on her face. She's a little sweetie.)

All in all, my experience didn't cause my submissive tendencies or cause my Dom tendencies either. But it definitely does affect how I act on them.

[gemmy]

*Hmmmm thinking a couch in here wouldn't be inappropriate* *whistles* hehe

Many burdens we all carry
The weight varies
It's how we carry the weight, no?

[sipgirl]

Been away for awhile, but I will add my 2 cents...it may not be worth even that LOL!!!I guess I am the exception to the rule. I am totally submissive behind closed doors...totally!!!I had an awesome childhood, have a family who I love dearly, parents who are still married after over 30 years. No stepsisters, no stepbrothers, we all have the same mom and dad. All but one boyfriend treated me like gold and now have a Master/husband who for 17 years has worshipped the ground I walked on (not literally of course its more the other way around, but you get the point).
I honestly dont know where my submission comes from. I have asked myself that question hundreds of times. Those on the outside would NEVER guess I have an ounce of submission in me. To the outside world I look very, very dominant. The girls and I walk into a bar, walk down the street in a city when we take our weekend trips or through the mall and we own it...head up, chest out, looking around smiling and confident.I am in charge of so many aspects of my life, my previous jobs always in managment, the lead in the school plays, the soloist in chorus,the team Mom, the charity president,one everyone counts and depends on. A flirt, some may even say downright sassy!!!However, close the door to the outside world and you will find a person who lies at the complete opposite side of the spectrum.
Maybe the above mentioned reasons are the cause of my submissiveness, maybe the fact that I am so dominant in every other aspect of my life, so depended upon by everyone else that at the end of the day all I want is to be tied up, whipped, all I want is to be at his feet, to be dependent on someone else for a change...to finally be the weak one.
I dont pretend to have all the answers and I can only speakfor myself, but abuse was never an issue in my life and yet here I am...

[Alex Bragi]

Yours is an interesting but certainly most heartbreaking story, ashtonD. I sincerely hope that by reading about other people's experiences, and airing your own, you may find some closure.

... Also, I can't stand people who enjoy humiliating others. Sometimes when I read of a Dom/me humiliating a sub or slave I feel like removing their face with a sledgehammer. The feelings are still that strong. (Apologies to those of you who engage in humiliation play. As long as it is play.)

I particularly noted this portion of your thread. I think perhaps it would help if you could understand the difference between humiliation and degradation within the world of BDSM. You may find this thread Humiliation verses Degradation interesting and helpful.

[sisterhoney61 {RW}]

Thanks for your post, Alex. There is absolutely a very big difference between humiliation and degradation within BDSM. I love humiliation. It is a major turn on for me and Master knows exactly which buttons to push to make me melt. After being in an abusive marriage, I for one, know the difference between humilitation and degradation. Master has never once tried to destroy my self-esteem or made me feel worthless or powerless.

[ashtonDs]

Originally Posted by Alex Bragi
I think perhaps it would help if you could understand the difference between humiliation and degradation

Originally Posted by sisterhoney61
I love humiliation. It is a major turn on for me

I know what you mean, and know the difference too. It's just that that is still a sore spot with me and I have to be careful. Sometimes want to blow up first and ask questions later. (Like my daughters teacher. She wrote the student's names on the blackboard to remind them to finish the assignment and bring it in. I didn't know that, but just blew up without asking questions.)

When it gets down to it, the ones I worry about most are predatory wannabes looking to take advantage of someone to soothe their own inadequacies. I'm not worried about people who play, just the ones who don't know when to stop. I guess it's like so many things in life, in the wrong hands it can be destructive. I'm worring alot about the kooks but paint everyone with the same brush.

Even after the problem is dealt with there are little side issues that pop up. One way to explain it is through the old proverb about cutting open a feather pillow and letting the feathers blow away. You can recover even sew up and refill the pillow case alot easier than you can recover all the feathers. This problem is one of the feathers for me.

Alex, thanks for all you've done, especially behind the scenes. I get a little uncomfortable with this subject, one because it was a horror to live through but also because so many people who participated in this thread have suffered so much. At least I never lived in fear of great bodily harm or was in fear for my life. I hope everyone who went through their own personal hell gets some benefit from the support of others and from relating their story here.

[ashtonDs]

I started a new post because this is a different subject.

Some people on this thread are wondering why, if they suffered abuse that they end up in a relationship where they let someone tie them up, spank them etc. A while back I was doing some reading (which I love to do) and ran across an article on the question of why some women have rape fantasies etc. It took me a while to digest the answer, because at first I rejected it outright.

It's not really about wanting to be beaten and raped. It is about wanting sex with no responsibilities, sex with no expectation of having to reciprocate, being able to scream and let your emotions run away. And it can also be a counter to the old "good girls don't do things like that (oral sex?).

Maybe here it is the same thing. Maybe we're looking for someone to "force" us to have a good time. So when someones asks, "Why did you let him/her do that to you?" You can answer, "Well I didn't have much choice now did I? I was all tied up with my butt in the air and a gag in my mouth!"

And make no mistake guys sometimes deal with the "good boy" stuff from childhood too. When we find someone we are comfortable with we can let them "force" us to do lots of nasty(fun) things that only bad(good) little sluts(girls and boys) do. It's just a thought. (OMG a subject for a new thread)

And abuse doesn't cause submissive or dominant feelings. It does affect how you react to the tendencies. I remember having some of these feelings before my abuse. Now, I find it really hard to completely submit to someone. And at the same time makes me very aware that in a Dom position I could hurt someone. Ultimately when I do submit it has to be with someone I totally trust (wifee ). And if I top I have to be very sensitive to what my sub feels and how I am acting. I hope just it makes me a better player in either situation.

[stripedangel]

stripey, there is so much in what you've said I completely relate to but this, I had to say....we aren't victims unless we choose to be - to be a victim pays homage to the abusers in our lives, gives them validation and credibility to continue their abuse by berating ourselves as they did, to move on, past, and be strong leaves them defenseless

We are survivors of the hardest made but the sweetest born

Another gem from the gem!

my apologies, i had intended to make the survivor point, and completely forgot about it....sat here for 5 minutes with what i already had there, and could not for the life of me remember what else i was gonna say!

[Euryleia]

snip
And abuse doesn't cause submissive or dominant feelings. It does affect how you react to the tendencies. I remember having some of these feelings before my abuse. Now, I find it really hard to completely submit to someone. And at the same time makes me very aware that in a Dom position I could hurt someone. Ultimately when I do submit it has to be with someone I totally trust (wifee ). And if I top I have to be very sensitive to what my sub feels and how I am acting. I hope just it makes me a better player in either situation.

I read your post and was definitely nodding at your final paragraph--I think part of my switch sides comes from both wanting to be in control and wanting to have it taken from me.

I agree that the issue of trust becomes a larger one after any type of abuse. In high school I was sexually assaulted by several older boys. For a long time, I didn't trust men at all (heck, I still think guys are icky).

When coming to bdsm, my first partner was much more experienced than I. She pushed my limits hard. I resisted and found, to my surprise, that being taken could be enjoyable. I soon wanted to be the one in charge. Being sexually aggressive was difficult, at first. It was scary to be the one in charge of securing someone down and being responsible for their pleasure much less being the one inflicting pain.

I find that my best experiences are with partners I trust. I need to know that they will safeword out if things get to be too much. Once that level of honesty is reached, only then will I be able to trust them to take charge and take care of me, too.

[Polaris]

I started a new post because this is a different subject.

Some people on this thread are wondering why, if they suffered abuse that they end up in a relationship where they let someone tie them up, spank them etc. A while back I was doing some reading (which I love to do) and ran across an article on the question of why some women have rape fantasies etc. It took me a while to digest the answer, because at first I rejected it outright.

It's not really about wanting to be beaten and raped. It is about wanting sex with no responsibilities, sex with no expectation of having to reciprocate, being able to scream and let your emotions run away. And it can also be a counter to the old "good girls don't do things like that (oral sex?).

I thought about this for quite a while, and I don't think I agree. To me, it's not about wanting no responsibilities or not having to reciprocate -- it's something that I can't really explain, but which goes far deeper than that. Yes, being 'forced' helps at times, particularly if you are on to something you haven't done before and that makes you feel embarassed...so there might be a bit of the old "good girls don't do things like that" thing in it.

To not stray too much from the original subject, I think that other than having been programmed to view abuse as the norm, my submissive nature contributed to picking out the wrong men. I didn't always have a name for it -- but I was always searching for somebody to dominate me. And hell, if you're not careful you get a control freak, and the fun is over faster than it has begun. I always liked to please, and I would always go the extra mile. The thing is, if you are in a BDSM relationship (a healthy, functioning one) this is something that is appreciated. Abusive relationships -- well, you go the extra mile, than another one, another one, get some crap to deal with but walk another extra mile -- all to hear that you're okay, loved, appreciated at some point. Good news is that usually once you noticed the pattern you don't fall for it again. Once you learn that it's not perfectly normal to be treated like crap, things get better. I'm not sure if that is something I carried over, or if it was there already before and made me walk so many extra miles -- but I do have an appreciation void that needs to be fed. Constantly. I need tons of hugs, and a whole lot of assurance that I'm okay, loved, appreciated. It's possibly just another memento.

@fetishdj: The physical aspects of it were not too extreme to start with. I could take being beaten. Actually, from a co-dependent point of view it made perfect sense to me: if my dad beat me, he would be sorry afterwards. I ran away with a black eye for a while, but at least I got hugs and kisses and apologies. The emotional aspects of it were much worse -- and always justified. And it was the pattern that was repeated in mostly all my relationships, too. A guy hit me -- I walked. A guy made me feel like a worthless, little nothing -- I was in for some more. To me it's the emotional scars that run deep...so this may be the reason why I don't have that much of a problem with trusting 'physically' so to speak.

And thanks! I like it too -- saw it somewhere and knew I had to have it!

[sisterhoney61 {RW}]

I agree with you, Polaris. I love rape fantasies and being forced and all of that, but like you, I can't explain it in words as to why I love them. And like you, I don't think that it is about not wanting responsibilites or not having to reciprocate. I also believe that it goes way deeper than that. But I am one of those people who don't try to analyze my sexual feelings too much. I accept them and enjoy them. So when people ask me why I enjoy rape fantasies and being forceably held down by Master my answer is, "Because I enjoy it."

[stripedangel]

i dunno, y'all are making me see some more of the patterns in my life....

Not sure what i was longing for as a child. Mom was dying when i was 12. She was sick all the time. That's when i started my runaway pattern. i was known by all police, as they had a permanent photo of me that circulated, and if they saw me out, they took me in. Running from my realty. i still want to run from whatever seems threatening to me, it's like instinct.

When i was with my first husband, he beat the daylights out of me....among other things, and sometimes, when the coast was clear, i left. i'd be gone for a day or so, and he would beg forgiveness, even on his knees. i'd go back. the final beating was just two days before my mom went into the hospital for the last time. my husband had beaten me all over the motel room, and had even ripped the door from the exterior wall. Just a gaping hole and the door (frame and all) leaned against the opening. i had my old baby bed (it had been my mother's when she was a baby) in there, using it for the baby...it was broken to bits when i was thrown into it a few times that day. She had to drive up and see me there, tears,bruises and all. i saw how much it broke her heart....wow, it still bothers me. When she was on her death bed, she came out of one of her semi-comas to tell me that she loved me and wanted me to hear her final wish........can you guess?

i left the asshole the day that Mom died and hid out in the same motel right across the courtyard from him.......but he never knew where i was (we lived in motels, since he only worked 2 days to a week at any job, and we were impoverished). This was mainly because i was staying with (gawd, this is embarrassing) his uncle! i stayed with this uncle for 3 years...he was the one who was emotionally abusive, and made me do a lot of things that i'm not at all proud of...nice one, stripey!! This one wanted to Dom...he wanted a slave...i just didn't realize that's what he was working toward, and i'm not sure that he knew it either. He would have been a really bad Dom, i can tell you that much. my self-worth was nil. i'd lost a lot of weight with this one, which is the only bright side, but the weight loss came because i was always too fat for him, or too ugly. "Look at the jeans on that one," he'd say, "i'd sure like to get into those...too bad you can't...when you gonna lose some of that shitty fat? Fuck, ya look like a pig." Sometimes, he would even drive up next to them and offer rides, saying that "the fatass can be dropped off somewhere for a while," if she wanted to have any fun.

Now, with FixIt, i have a home. i belong, and my son and daughter (who lives with my ex-husband's parents because he broke her arm when she was six weeks old) also belong. Master doesn't run from His problems. my pattern of running, i think, has been broken.

i told those stories to tell you this:
When i weighed 209 lbs 4 years ago (which is a lot for someone who's 4ft 9in tall), and felt that my eating was out of control, i wanted to stop with the food so badly that i had entertained the notion of getting Master (remember-prior to BDSM for us) to abuse me in that manner. i wanted Him to tell me that i was fat and ugly, and show me skinny girls and make comparisons, like uncle asshole had done. Instead, He told me how beautiful i am. i got angry and impatient about it all. i think i wanted to be dommed into weightloss, but didn't realize at the time that there was a way to do this without losing my flatlining self-esteem. Then i ran across a site while doing some research for a "dirty book" i wanted to write......it was a BDSM related site! i watched and lurked, went into the chats and watched some more. i knew then that i wanted (needed) to be submissive.

Now, i'm 25 pounds away from goal weight. Master still tells me i'm beautiful, and makes cracks about my skinny ass. i no longer think i'm ugly, though the lil demon that was left still makes it difficult to believe that i'm beautiful, and accept a complement.

i guess BDSM has made me realize that i can be dommed in a good way. i had always thought, prior to this experience, that a controlling man was NOT what i wanted. i never would let Master control anything (more patterns?). Now, all i want is for Him to take care of me...let me be His honored slave and place me on that slave pedistal. i've always been on a pedistal with Him, but this one feels much better. Master is new at this..........but He's doing a damn fine job!

I hope this wasn't off topic too much...sorry if it was.

[stripedangel]

NOw, where would i be if i had never been through any of that? With Master? With my son? Stuck in a motel somewhere? Here on these forums? i doubt it.

[ashtonDs]

Originally posted by stripedangel:
He told me how beautiful i am. i got angry and impatient about it all

Why is so difficult for a woman to believe she is beautiful? When my wife was pregnant she told me she was fat and ugly. I thought she never looked better and couldn't keep my eyes (or hands) off of her.

You have to realize that you probably aren't in the best position to make that call. From where He is, your Master can see what you cannot. He sees beauty in the whole package that is you. Next time you hear those words, "you are beautiful," believe it.

And don't worry about being too far off topic. After the abuse is over we all have to deal with the aftermath. The emotional takes a lot longer to heal than the physical. Good luck.

[Tojo]

From what I've seen & heard, many women don't believe they're beautiful because they've been abused in some way, put down in the early years of their lives, or just compare themselves to an impossible ideal. (Check out the women's magazines)

It's great to read these stories & know how important it is to tell them in a safe place. My wife had a horrific childhood, & her adult life has had it's moments. She used to crave rough sex, rape fantasies etc- I guess for similar reasons.

After being with her 20 years, she still asks if I still like her, & if I'm attracted to her. I sure don't need to lie there, she's bloody beautiful.

She's a beautiful person as well, still given to fits of rage that take some coping with, I can tell you!

Great thread Ashton, keep telling your stories guys- I for one am reading them with sadness, & admiration for your courage.

BTW- when I was learning about domestic abuse, the statistics were that a woman generally leaves an abusive partner 7 times, before making the final break. Those guys are very good with the flowers & promises- they have to be.