Polyamorous or just not sure?

[gemmy]

The whole board is about judgements, thoughts and personal opinions, it's why we're here.

We don't all have to agree, all we can do is give our own perspective on a given topic. Just because I believe and think one way doesn't make it written in stone, just makes it mine personally.

We all try not to judge, but personally we all know what we could or couldn't live with and as far as I can tell that's all that any of us have expressed here - our own personal views of something. Getting pissed off and defensive at not everyone agreeing one way or the other is a waste of time. If it's going to upset you, then don't participate

Also, as these opinions and thoughts are expressed we sometimes get to learn more about things that we may have closed our minds to or we may still keep our current thought and learn nothing but that doesn't devalue the exchange.

[TomOfSweden]

There is one little thing I've noticed among younger poly's I know. And that's quite a few. Love is the key. What is love, and how is it expressed? We can't really say can we? We can only say indirectly. So we have to nail that one down first... which means skills in expressing one self.... and empathy ... understanding each other... and so on. It needs extremely mature and intelligent people. I'm not saying it can't work anyway just out of dumb luck. I suspect that I really only notice the poly relationships that don't work since those who do just seem like people being very good friends. But the jealousy and drama is super easy to pick up on at a party. ...and that's pretty much my perception of poly for young people. It's like an endless episode of your favourite soap opera. Drama, drama, drama. ....but maybe that is what they want

I have an example of a very well functioning poly situation close to home so I know very well how well it can work when it does. It's also fascinating to see when any of them date somebody who say they understand and are down with it... when they aren't. How they try so extremely hard to push on all the jealousy buttons and nothing works.

Some people do define love in terms how far others would go for them. The jealousy factor. People like that are obviously not poly material.

[J-Go]

My grandmother used to say "Don't be so open minded your empty headed" It took me a long time to really understand what that meant. As I got older I understood that the meaning was “know your boundaries.” This has been a fascinating discussion on boundaries, some people have the ability to extend to multiple simultaneous relationships some don’t. From these posts it’s obvious that not every one sees poly the same way, I guess it would be a damn short boring thread if we did.
So here is an opinion to ponder. Polyamorous is indeed a life style however there is also polyamorous action that has nothing to do with being in a poly lifestyle.
It’s very common to be in a committed singular relationship and engage in polyamorous activity. For example, I meet a friend…an old girlfriend for sake of argument, we have a few beers and kiss passionately before saying good night…”great to see you again, bye” no sex. I have just engaged in an amorous activity with another i.e. I have given amour to another, I have engaged in an activity that shows affection beyond a hand shake shall we say. OK all, morally where am I? Did I violate my committed relationship with a kiss? Or is it only a violation if it’s kept a secret? Or is it a violation if the action hurts the one I’m committed to?
Alright all, bring on the opinions!

[tessa]

I had a lot typed out on this, but nah. I'll just say this-

If polyamory is the thing for you, then do it. Know yourself well enough to understand what it is you desire in a relationship, find a like-minded soul (or souls in this case) and do it all over the place. Live your life and be happy in it.

Just don't expect and/or demand that others be happy with you in the living of it. "Live and let live", while a grand idea, just isn't realistic. And unless you live totally isolated from public view and opinion, what you should expect are judgements, differing opinions and disapproval. That's what people do when they don't understand something. And forget trying to "make them understand" any of it. They don't want to.

That's life. Have fun with it.

[claire]

J-Go, Sir, as I was telling Amber yesterday, with that AV, I am not going to object to anything you do! I am just going to answer yes Sir, no Sir and do my best never to displease you.

[gemmy]

My grandmother used to say "Don't be so open minded your empty headed" It took me a long time to really understand what that meant. As I got older I understood that the meaning was “know your boundaries.” This has been a fascinating discussion on boundaries, some people have the ability to extend to multiple simultaneous relationships some don’t. From these posts it’s obvious that not every one sees poly the same way, I guess it would be a damn short boring thread if we did.
So here is an opinion to ponder. Polyamorous is indeed a life style however there is also polyamorous action that has nothing to do with being in a poly lifestyle.
It’s very common to be in a committed singular relationship and engage in polyamorous activity. For example, I meet a friend…an old girlfriend for sake of argument, we have a few beers and kiss passionately before saying good night…”great to see you again, bye” no sex. I have just engaged in an amorous activity with another i.e. I have given amour to another, I have engaged in an activity that shows affection beyond a hand shake shall we say. OK all, morally where am I? Did I violate my committed relationship with a kiss? Or is it only a violation if it’s kept a secret? Or is it a violation if the action hurts the one I’m committed to?
Alright all, bring on the opinions!

That's Brilliant!!! I love it

My opinion is you violated your relationship simply on loyalty. You commit to a monogamous relationship, that's it - you don't get to evaluate single cases after the fact. You either are 100% committed or you aren't. As you didn't have prior consent, you are being disloyal. If she agrees after the fact when you tell her that it's ok, then you got lucky - if she doesn't, then you've hurt her simply by being unfaithful and dishonest with the loyalty you have previously setup (assuming your committed relationship requires loyalty, which most do).

Personally, if agreed on a committed relationship I always stipulate that if my significant other feels the need to stray (yes, that includes a kiss that isn't a friendly 'cheek' kind of kiss), they have two choices; discuss it with me Before you act on it or leave me. Very cut and dried, no grey areas.

I've found myself in the situation to have my head turned by another while still married and although my marriage had been in the toilet for over three years, I still wouldn't hurt him by cheating. I chose to finally leave seeing that as the final sign that I had nothing left invested in my marriage.

[gemmy]

p.s. passionate kissing is sex - even a look can be sex imo

[gemmy]

J-Go, Sir, as I was telling Amber yesterday, with that AV, I am not going to object to anything you do! I am just going to answer yes Sir, no Sir and do my best never to displease you.

lol claire - Hot is it not? *drools* - He's actually quite Hot and very Domly in person also hehe

[J-Go]

J-Go, Sir, as I was telling Amber yesterday, with that AV, I am not going to object to anything you do! I am just going to answer yes Sir, no Sir and do my best never to displease you.

Awww shucks!

[claire]

Awww shucks!

Damn! That "Awww shucks", just burst my fantasy bubble. How can I be afraid of someone who says that! The fantasy response was more on the order of "and well you should". You know, something to keep me in my place and maintain the aura of power and authority.

[J-Go]

yes but awww shucks is quite non-amorous don't you agree? Now back to your knees ! And get that head down!

[DowntownAmber]

Damn! That "Awww shucks", just burst my fantasy bubble. How can I be afraid of someone who says that! The fantasy response was more on the order of "and well you should". You know, something to keep me in my place and maintain the aura of power and authority.

I have heard that very same, "awww, shucks," in a particular tone or coupled with a subtle raise of an eyebrow... Methinks it's sometimes less the words you use and moreso how you use them... Mmmmm.

Wait, is this turning into a poly exchange??

[gemmy]

I have heard that very same, "awww, shucks," in a particular tone or coupled with a subtle raise of an eyebrow... Methinks it's sometimes less the words you use and moreso how you use them... Mmmmm.

Wait, is this turning into a poly exchange??

LMAO - too funny

*puts on her best Domme voice (stifling giggles)*

Now bloody get back on topic and get serious already!!

And yes, Amber, I do believe sometimes words matter not but tone speaks volumes.

[claire]

I have heard that very same, "awww, shucks," in a particular tone or coupled with a subtle raise of an eyebrow... Methinks it's sometimes less the words you use and moreso how you use them... Mmmmm.

Wait, is this turning into a poly exchange??

yes but awww shucks is quite non-amorous don't you agree? Now back to your knees ! And get that head down!

Ah! Thank you, Sir! Of course, Sir, I should have known I was misinterpreting it.

Well, maybe I should stop this hijack and answer your question.

As previously noted, I am the jealous type. This is because I am insecure. I would be hurt by that kiss, but I would want to know about it. Is it cheating? Technically yes, but I have never been one to see anything as black and white. Those shades of gray would make me consider motivation and intent and the trust I have in my partner.

[sidhewolf]

I think it comes down to the fact that people define love differently, no? The term, polyamorous, whose roots are pretty clear, has been used to describe something far different then its simplisticly complex definition.

Poly folks don't necessarily have the same relationship with each member of the poly family. For instance, it might be a couple who has a "third" for play only, or a Dominant with no primary submissive, but 2 submissives who have different purposes & functions in the household.

The way that Poly WORKS is to make sure of the following:
1.) COMMUNICATION is working. What kills Poly is the same thing that kills everything else: a lack of open & honest communication
2.) Clear definitions of roles. What kind of poly relationship are you having? Are you a couple who is looking for some sexual spice? Are you a Dom who enjoys having mulitiple submissives for multiple functions? Are you two couples who enjoy eachother's different strengths? Everyone in the relationship has to be on the same sheet of paper. Poly only works if everyone feels safe & secure in their purpose & role.

Beyond that...

Love is relative, as I said, to different people. Have I loved more then one person in my life? Sure, but not necessarily the same sort of love. My love for T is very different then my love of a Poly play partner (third), or a former lover. Does that mean that a third doesn't feel a part of the poly dynamic? No, of course not... but the TYPE & KIND of love of the third is just different.

I am sure there are people who would say "you can have but one true love." Ok, but how should I know exactly what that is? How can I know that there is ONLY one? Or that I HAVE the right one (I do, but hey, I am super lucky & special)? Is there some instructional guide? A DVD? A course? I certainly haven't ever seen one. So until I do, I am going with the statement of, "you can love more then one, differently."

Again, each to their own... but for poly, you can DEFINITELY have a situation where there is mutual love--just at a different level & a different variety--between all the partners.

Ok, think I babbled enough...

Your response to this topic makes the most sense to me, and my overall experience with Poly. Thank you!

Honest Open Communication is Truly the key to helping Poly work. At the same time isn't that true of any Style of Relationship?

Making and Keeping Agreements and setting Relationship Bounderies also faciltates the success of Poly. Like you mention Delia "Clear definition of Roles".

Though some of the concerns expressed by some other(s) here are certainly valid ones as well ime.

Time Management for instance is a bigger issue in Poly Relating, because there are more PPL involved. And every one wants and needs quality Time with their Partner(s). One can even become what is termed in the Poly Community as > Poly Saturated, IE have Too Many Partner(s) to fullfill the Relationship needs of. Which is not a good thing.

Taking on a Partner none of one's other Partner(s) likes or Trusts is also a pretty destructive thing to do.

Also Poly is a generic Term for Multi-Partner Relating. PPL in the Poly Community have as many definitions of What Poly is to them, as there are PPL nearly. One will have the best success in Poly, Choosing other(s) who have the same or similar definitions for themselves. Choosing a Relationship with someone who is seeking a 2ndry Partner, when you yourself are seeking a Primary Partnership, likely won't work out well in the longrun for anyone. Nor vice versa. And again like you mention Delia "Clear Definiton of Roles*.

Like any other Style of Relating, do PPL Choose Relationship(s) with other(s) that don't want the same or similar things from that Relationship? If they do How Smart is that? ummmm

I also note that many PPL in the Monogamous Mainstream of Society tend to think in the direction that Poly PPL simply have not found their "Right One" yet. How Many times in my Life have I heard this statement? I can't count them. The Truth of the matter is that they have found the *Right One*, just that they've found more than one of them, and each on different Levels. Each and every Relationship is different, like each and every person is.

Another key to making Poly work well is the ability to first of all Choose Partner(s) that will mesh well Together, and Trust and Respect eachother, as well as the Relationship Agreements and Bounderies of each Relationship. This facilitates Love and Trust with everyone involved.

As for me, my pre-existing Relationship(s) take precedence, and do set the standard for what I may or may not have to offer the next person. But that is me.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[Kuskovian]

Very well said Sidhewolf. Well said indeed.

[sidhewolf]

Very well said Sidhewolf. Well said indeed.

Thank You Denuseri's Master

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

My grandmother used to say "Don't be so open minded your empty headed" It took me a long time to really understand what that meant. As I got older I understood that the meaning was “know your boundaries.” This has been a fascinating discussion on boundaries, some people have the ability to extend to multiple simultaneous relationships some don’t. From these posts it’s obvious that not every one sees poly the same way, I guess it would be a damn short boring thread if we did.
So here is an opinion to ponder. Polyamorous is indeed a life style however there is also polyamorous action that has nothing to do with being in a poly lifestyle.
It’s very common to be in a committed singular relationship and engage in polyamorous activity. For example, I meet a friend…an old girlfriend for sake of argument, we have a few beers and kiss passionately before saying good night…”great to see you again, bye” no sex. I have just engaged in an amorous activity with another i.e. I have given amour to another, I have engaged in an activity that shows affection beyond a hand shake shall we say. OK all, morally where am I? Did I violate my committed relationship with a kiss? Or is it only a violation if it’s kept a secret? Or is it a violation if the action hurts the one I’m committed to?
Alright all, bring on the opinions!

First to say > I like Your GrandMothers saying. It rings so True to me. And it makes Honest and Good sense <soft smiles>.

Nextly on the questions; I would have to say this> You and Your Partner(s) Know eachother, and what Your Agreements in, and expectations of, that relationship are. So You likely Know where Your Morality is, whether or not You violated anything (likely before You did so if You are Real Honest about this), whether or not a secret is a violation, or whether what You do will hurt Your Partner. If You make Agreements and set Bounderies with someone and then break them You Know that.

A Real Kicker to me in these things is PPL who make Agreements and set Bounderies for their Relationship(s) with their Partner(s), and then just break the Spirit of those Agreements and Bounderies. IE tell lies of ommission, look for loopholes (like attorney's do). Seemingly keeping the Agreements and Bounderies, when they Really Aren't, ya know?

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[sidhewolf]

MastersGem I Agree with some of what you write here. It's Very True we are All People First. With feelings, thoughts, and Needs, no matter what Role we have or place we take in this Community. And I Loved your <gag and bleck> about unrealistic certain conditions that do currently exsist in many BDSM/Poly Style Relationship's <G>. True that a persons Dominant is at the forefront of a Submissive or Slaves mind and Heart, but that doesn't remove who a person IS.

Dominants everywhere are Learning more and more every day about this, and how to build Happy successfull Poly Households. There are success stories out there, and successfull BDSM/Poly Intentional Families I know. The ones who have been successfull for a loooong time already Learned and Grew through what most of the BDSM Communities Dominants are just beginning to *get* over the last several years. Which is in part, that this Style of Loving is Consensual. If Your Submissives or Slaves are unhappy and unfullfilled in their purpose of their Relationship with You, You will not be happy either. The Consent can become withdrawn. The happy Poly Home You plan will not happen, because You did not consider and support in action the ones in Your charge.

BDSM is a Power Exchange. One cannot Give Power they don't have. Just something to think about I think, and consider well.....

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[jeanne]

The number is not the point, the point is that we simply need to realize how much we all can comfortably bite off and chew.

That makes sense. Each of us is different - what works well for one person may be completely unacceptable or unmanageable for another, for an infinite variety of reasons.

[lily27]

I do think there are people out there who are legitimately polyamorous, have the best of intentions, and work hard to make their relationships work.

I also think there are many more people who slap the label "poly" on themselves as an excuse to cheat on their spouse, or become a slave collector.

You can't fix your first relationship by adding a second. If there is something seriously lacking in your primary relationship that you just can't live without, then it is time to find a new primary. Adding a slutty little slave on the side isn't going to make you any happier with your wife.

[Daes]

Poly relationships can work when you have the right individuals.

I've attempted a poly relationship, I flew up to meet them back in march. He was a sensual dominant named David and Tracy was a 'mommy' domina who loved to be pampered/

I was very happy and loved by both of them, in fact, things were going so well that we were planning a live in situation and they were going to get a larger house to accomodate me. They were awesome people. though it did fall out for reasons I dont really feel like getting into. We're still on good terms, and if a similar situation were to arise and I was single, I would love to do it again.

Its all very situational. My friend Mike wanted me to be a sister sub to his current submissive and it drove me up the wall. I said no. She drives me insane. He's one of my really good friends, and I can handle either her OR him, I Like her when hes not around, but when theyre together it makes me want to puke. So when we all tried playing together I get bored, annoyed, then irritated. It just would not have worked in the least. So I stopped playing with the two of them. He somehow thinks this is because I'm straight. Ha. I've decided to let this go rather than create an argument that could risk our friendship, its that much of an issue with me.

You have to learn what works for you. With a couple, you Have to take the pair, no one or the other. I'm a jealous girl that craves attention and affection - I know this and can foresee a situation where my jealousy would become an issue.

I'm not attracted to submissive females, but I loved having a Domme while it lasted. I miss her very much. Ive also realized that serving With other subs leaves me disinterested, which is why having a Dominant couple over a Dom/sub one works very well with me, I can spend my time serving one or the other, and as the 'pet' of the two, I become a very happy girl =)

Its certainly not for everyone, you have to know yourself, be Honest with yourself, have an idea of what youre getting into.

[sidhewolf]

I do think there are people out there who are legitimately polyamorous, have the best of intentions, and work hard to make their relationships work.

I also think there are many more people who slap the label "poly" on themselves as an excuse to cheat on their spouse, or become a slave collector.

You can't fix your first relationship by adding a second. If there is something seriously lacking in your primary relationship that you just can't live without, then it is time to find a new primary. Adding a slutty little slave on the side isn't going to make you any happier with your wife.

I think this is a Great Assessment Lily. And it rings very true to my experience in both the Poly and BDSM Communities.

The Point of Polyamory IS to have more than 1 Loving Intimate Relationship in ones Life, on an Open, Honest, level. Too many People either don't get, or ignore this factor. If there are secrets, lies, deceit, involved, it's Cheating. If it's Cheating, it's Not Polyamory!

Many who come into these Communities labeling themselves Poly, are seeking Sex Only Only Type connections. Which is also Not what Poly is about. And Which are desires that can be met in the Swinging Community. I think part of the problem, or mis-take in this, is that those labeling themselves Poly, are perhaps confused, or are a form of Community predator. And the label of Poly confuses the people they come into contact with.

If the pre-existing Relationship(s) are not Healthy, other Relationship(s) cannot be added with any reasonable expectation of success. One cannot (as you say) add another to fix what is broken or not working. Poly doesn't work that way, at all.

True Poly is an extension of Healthy, Happy, Loving, Open, Honest, Relationship(s). Not people looking for a bandaid so to speak.

One can put their thumb in a leaking hole in the dam, but how long will that last? Eventually it becomes a destructive flood that'll wipe out everything in it's path. My advice is > Don't be there!

There are (as you say) People who are Truly Polyamorus, who operate in their Relationship(s) with Honest, Open, Loving, intentions. One of the easiest ways to assess if this is what you have found (if you are seeking a Poly Style Relationship) is to be in direct Communication with all of the People involved in the pre-existing Relationship(s) Openly. And take your time getting to know them. As well as giving them all time to get to know you. If there are secrets and lies Anywhere, or vast differences in their communications to you, you haven't found what you are seeking.

In the BDSM Community there are many so called Poly Dominants seeking to add more Submissives, or Slaves. Assuming this is Their Right, and irregardless of the feelings, fears, thoughts, needs, or Agreements they have, with the ones they have. And without correcting that situation First. These do not make for a positive situation for those seeking a Loving Poly Home, or Relationship(s).

People in this Community are Learning and Growing more every day across the board in regards to what Poly is and what it isn't.

My experience in Poly is that people (like any other Style of Relationship) #1) need to Choose other(s) with the same or similar definitions of what they are each seeking for and in a Partner. Not just settle for whomever may be willing to connect with them. Keeping in mind people are Who and What they are. You cannot just take any person who becomes available, and hope to Change them later. #2) Work within the negotiated Bounderies and Agreements they already have to attain what they wish for in order to extend what they have built to someone else.

The Wise and Experienced Poly Dominants I know Never Choose other(s) that don't mesh with Their wishes to begin with. And They never add, or try to add, Anyone that won't mesh with what they have already established. These want and Will Have a Happy, Peacefull, continueum in Their HouseHolds, and in Their Lives. Something that cannot be attained without having done the work and being Responsible. This is easily seen in Their Homes, and Their other Relationship(s).

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[J-Go]

Poly is wounderful for those who choose it, when it's dumped upon you it just isn't that much fun! I don't care what lifestyle you choose accountability to the hearts of those you claim to love and care about is the true measure of character.

[bip0lar]

i was actually discussing something similar with my mother a while ago, and i liked the way she put it:
In other cultures, what we choose to call primitive [which is so not true necessarily], men had different wives/women/partners not only for their own pleasure but also for the comfort of the women. Each wife/woman/partner was in charge of a specific duty. Today a wife has to be a good mother, a good spouse, good at her job, social, take care of herself and be pretty, have food ready for the family and so on and so forth and all that with a smile on her face.
I've met a Family in poly, they love each other, they care for each other and they respect each other, which i find acceptable in every way. I am not saying i could deal with it--i don't know, but i doubt that i could. I need and want to be special to my Dominant, if i feel that i cannot satisfy his needs i'll just break down--but in no way would i be judgemental of a poly relationship. After all, i'm pretty sure we know of many people cheating on their partners--at least in this case, it's consensual and all needs are met.
but that's just me :x

[Ozme52]

i was actually discussing something similar with my mother a while ago, and i liked the way she put it:
In other cultures, what we choose to call primitive [which is so not true necessarily], men had different wives/women/partners not only for their own pleasure but also for the comfort of the women. Each wife/woman/partner was in charge of a specific duty. Today a wife has to be a good mother, a good spouse, good at her job, social, take care of herself and be pretty, have food ready for the family and so on and so forth and all that with a smile on her face.
I've met a Family in poly, they love each other, they care for each other and they respect each other, which i find acceptable in every way. I am not saying i could deal with it--i don't know, but i doubt that i could. I need and want to be special to my Dominant, if i feel that i cannot satisfy his needs i'll just break down--but in no way would i be judgemental of a poly relationship. After all, i'm pretty sure we know of many people cheating on their partners--at least in this case, it's consensual and all needs are met.
but that's just me :x

I understand the sentiment, but why do you set the standard that 'special' to him means you and you alone? Should children feel less special if they have siblings?

And please, not the standard "that's different" argument. Unless you can explain how it's different. Because I don't see it.

[DowntownAmber]

I understand the sentiment, but why do you set the standard that 'special' to him means you and you alone? Should children feel less special if they have siblings?

And please, not the standard "that's different" argument. Unless you can explain how it's different. Because I don't see it.

Sorry Oz, you know I adore you but I'm gonna' fling the bullshit flag out onto the field on this one. I'm groovy with poly when it does indeed work for all parties involved, I've said as much prior in the thread. It's all about what you can handle and not biting off more than you can chew. However, a parent to child relationship and a sibling to sibling relationship is not the same dynamic as romantic and sexual love between adults. A parent raising a child is mentoring a growing person with a developing intellect into a young adult who will one day be outed from the nest and expected to exist on their own. As parents, part of the job description is to make the little snot nosed DNA copies function apart from us. As romantic partners (key word there being "partner") the goal is the opposite: we're trying to figure out how to function with each other.

A parent, I would hope, would indeed love their child/ren for life. I would hope a parent would not choose obvious favorites. My parents had three of us, loved us all and cared for us all and their pride and love is clear in their eyes when they look at each one of us. However, it is nothing compared to the depth that exists when they look at each other and, in their case, only each other. After nearly 33 years of marriage they are still so enthralled with each other that there is simply no more room for anyone else.

[jeanne]

Perhaps poly is a workable life choice, but it does require a particular degree of openness. And a finely tuned consideration by and for all parties involved.

And yes - love for children is different from love for lovers. It's not easily explainable, it just is.

[Ozme52]

Amber, at least you are trying to meet my 'explain it' request.

I'll have to absorb it and think on it a bit. But in the meantime... I still see the capacity in us, humanity, to infinite love within us.

[Ozme52]

Perhaps poly is a workable life choice, but it does require a particular degree of openness. And a finely tuned consideration by and for all parties involved.

And yes - love for children is different from love for lovers. It's not easily explainable, it just is.

Perhaps because I don't have children, I can't understand it... the difference.

Perhaps because I don't have children, I treat all my adult loves as most treat their children. Does that make me, as a poly personality, shallower or deeper?