A few questions concerning punishment

[DowntownAmber]

Personally the most horrible thing that I have read here in the Library is someone suggesting using "ignoring treatment and silence" as punishment for a sub. Accepting that we are all different I still find that psychologically abusive, mean and immature; if I had wanted to deal with a pouting man child I would have married a vanilla.

Heh heh heh, I seem to think you have a picture in your head of a pouting Dom with his arms crossed looking away while his subbie tries unsuccessfully to gain his attention. Pouting and petty mean acts of immaturity actually have so very little to do with it, I find this a very calm and rational response to a punishment worthy offense. For example, I was running horribly behind and neglected to call J and let him know. He was worried for me, as we had made very specific plans that evening and the last he had heard from me I was on my way. He was angry, of course, and could have directed that towards me but instead he simply informed me that he was cancelling our date for the next evening and that he expected I would remain home during the duration of the time we would have been together. He would not contact me via phone or internet during that time. Sitting home alone that night, knowing he was a few miles across town drove home the point that when you're expecting someone and wanting to be with them, it is important that your time be considered and valued. Minus the element of fear regarding another's safety, I sat there feeling just as he felt when I disregarded his schedule. Although I had apologized already, when I saw him next I offered another apology based on much more heartfelt experience.

The "silent treatment" also is slightly more than the childhood connotation I think is being applied to it. To me, it means that there is a period of silence where one is left to meditate and consider the issue at hand. I don't find it abusive any more than being "ignored." Quite to the contrary, I find it meditative and centering, and I often use it on myself to concentrate on my Dom or on the nature of my own submission, in fact. The infamous Position One is a great way to physically set the stage for this activity.

Any punishment acted on in anger I think has the potential to cross the line to abuse, I simply don't agree that what I've mentioned even comes close to it.

[AdrianaAurora]

Heh heh heh, I seem to think you have a picture in your head of a pouting Dom with his arms crossed looking away while his subbie tries unsuccessfully to gain his attention. Pouting and petty mean acts of immaturity actually have so very little to do with it, I find this a very calm and rational response to a punishment worthy offense. For example, I was running horribly behind and neglected to call J and let him know. He was worried for me, as we had made very specific plans that evening and the last he had heard from me I was on my way. He was angry, of course, and could have directed that towards me but instead he simply informed me that he was cancelling our date for the next evening and that he expected I would remain home during the duration of the time we would have been together. He would not contact me via phone or internet during that time. Sitting home alone that night, knowing he was a few miles across town drove home the point that when you're expecting someone and wanting to be with them, it is important that your time be considered and valued. Minus the element of fear regarding another's safety, I sat there feeling just as he felt when I disregarded his schedule. Although I had apologized already, when I saw him next I offered another apology based on much more heartfelt experience.

The "silent treatment" also is slightly more than the childhood connotation I think is being applied to it. To me, it means that there is a period of silence where one is left to meditate and consider the issue at hand. I don't find it abusive any more than being "ignored." Quite to the contrary, I find it meditative and centering, and I often use it on myself to concentrate on my Dom or on the nature of my own submission, in fact. The infamous Position One is a great way to physically set the stage for this activity.

Any punishment acted on in anger I think has the potential to cross the line to abuse, I simply don't agree that what I've mentioned even comes close to it.

What I meant was when silence and ignoring is used not to teach a lesson but simply to get back and be mean to another person. I don't have a problem with quietness or time outs. The image I have in my head, is instead of resolving a problem "Dom" doesn't talk to a sub for days, pouts, sends immature looks her way, turns his head away, sleeps in another room, classic emotional blackmail. (And often that results in wife becoming even more shrewish and loud, *shudder*). I have seen too many couples like that and I just cant understand how they simply go through the motions, day after day. If they are staying committed, why not make an effort to make the relationship a happy one or at least be nice to each other? Life is bad enough without making each other miserable.

[DowntownAmber]

What I meant was when silence and ignoring is used not to teach a lesson but simply to get back and be mean to another person.

Yes, I would say that goeas for ANY type of punishment, whether it be something physical or a mental lesson learned. Every Dom worth his salt I have ever spoken with on this topic has agreed that enacting a punishment while angry is a VERY BAD IDEA. Anger and vindictiveness are what turn a safe, sane, and consensual Lifestyle into abuse. Again, this can be applied to both physical and to headspace discipline.

Hope I cleared things up!

[AdrianaAurora]

Yes, I would say that goeas for ANY type of punishment, whether it be something physical or a mental lesson learned. Every Dom worth his salt I have ever spoken with on this topic has agreed that enacting a punishment while angry is a VERY BAD IDEA. Anger and vindictiveness are what turn a safe, sane, and consensual Lifestyle into abuse. Again, this can be applied to both physical and to headspace discipline.

Hope I cleared things up!

When bdsm punishment becomes an excuse for a dom to express his anger it becomes abuse. If he is truly angry he waits until he has calmed down to deal with an issue.

So basically we agree that we agree, lol. We all perceive things differently and I was just saying that for me that particular form of vindictiveness is especially intolerable.