Why is it cool to be a bi girl

[pervertedpages]

Your sexuality is about whom you feel romantic love for.
....
I really dislike it when people reduce sexuality to fucking.

Hopefully I figured out how to use the quoting system right.

Let me start off by saying perhaps your sexuality is about whom you feel romantic love for. My sexuality is about who and how and when and why I want to fuck, thank you. Wrapped in with this is who I love, if I love, because often when I love someone I want to fuck them. But perhaps not, love and sex are strange things. I really dislike it when people tell me things, anything, about my sexuality, so we're even. As for the gay comment: if you really feel that all my posts (which I have been sheepish about, until now) are just here to make more reductionary statements then I can't help you. I brought up the question of gay men in the context of every other sexuality and why we don't question them; it was to make a point about why we think this is okay to do for bisexuals and not anyone else, not to reduce gay men to buttfucking. But, as an extension to that, I also really feel that the LGBT community has to self-sanitize a lot of things for wider consumption -- bear with me here, it's a tangent, of course -- because when people think of "homosexuals" what they see and what they hear is often reduced to just that, sex. To try and get some respectability we try not to talk about it, use safe rhetoric like "we're just normal people too, why are you so fascinated about what's happening in the bedroom?" This is true, but that doesn't mean buttsex doesn't happen, lol. The queer rights movement has moved into a trend of this sort of "we're just like you please don't hate us" defense, but I'd like more than tolerance on the basis that we live and love just as other humans do; it presupposes that I have to justify my humanity in the first place. And I'm just tired of having to act like sex doesn't happen in order to have my sexuality valued (this is talking about sexuality in terms of gaining acceptance in the greater world, but also apparently me and you). So that's the reason why I specifically talk about sex if I want to talk about sex, because I can and should. I didn't say anything against love, just for sex, so that's a distinction I make about whether my sexuality being about sex somehow demeans love (it doesn't, but if you choose to respect my sexuality only if I love someone, whaddaya gonna do).

All I wanted out of my original post was to put this discussion of sexuality in perspective with a broader one that is not as accepting as this online community, because the parallels made me uncomfortable, even though I knew no one was doing it on purpose. I would argue that the parallels of mistrust for "bisexuals"-in-quotation-marks is echoing and helping the kind of dubiousness and disingenuousness-filled rhetoric that surrounds the queer community in general (at least in America). And I think it is rooted in that same counter-productive and oppressive place, whether we realize it or not. That is no one's fault -- we're fed seemingly-innocent things like this all the time, like how referring to it as "gay marriage" instead of "equal human rights" makes Middle America think of two dudes fucking instead of people people uniting through love, and consequently they vote for a marriage amendment. It sounds so simple and infuriating because it is. Not thinking about when or why or if our thoughts or terms of usage become framed/loaded/game schema'd can only hurt us, as melodramatic as that sounds. It's important, at least to me, to think about who and why we question, especially about their sexuality, because when we think it's okay to do something it's probably because we've been told that it's okay, and probably for a specific purpose. I literally just wanted to bring that up because it made me crazy that no one was saying it. I don't know what you got out of it, but it certainly wasn't that, and for that I apologize. I can't help but be apologetic every time I post here because all I'm doing is hijacking this post and then defending what I said because I wasn't articulate enough to pull it off the first go 'round. I regret that I am not as succinct as you are, Shwenn.

I understand that perhaps you are talking down to people who call themselves bisexual out of respect for actual bisexual people. This is not a viewpoint that I had thought of beforehand, and I actually appreciate it (as well as DowntownAmber for bringing it up last night). In response I can only say: as an actual bisexual person, I don't find this any more or less respectful than any other action, nor of any particular use, so I just don't get it. Saying someone might "have the audacity" to call themselves bisexual when they are not (and feeling the need to be angry/put them in their place by calling them "so-called") makes it seem like bisexuality is some pure, high state of being that gets sullied somehow by too many people misusing it. My qualm is not with the fact that people have different criteria for whether or not someone is bisexual and can rule people in or out of this category in their brains. It's that questioning or belittling or mistrusting any actual person who claims they are bisexual, even if they are not truly bisexual, does not do anything positive for the world. Even if it seems like we need to be defenders of the true faith, perhaps keeping out the not-truly-bi riffraff, I still say that someone else acting on their own sexuality, whether or not I think it is valid, does nothing to devalue my own. I don't know why it would devalue anyone else's or otherwise be a perceivable detriment besides proprietary annoyance (which is totally allowed, btw). This argument is not the intention of my post, but apparently the intention of the thread that I missed the first time, and this is the best way that I can process and respond to it. What are we, worried about street cred, here?

In closing, I'm sorry again to everyone who had to see these huge blocks of very unfun text in an otherwise fun place, or felt as though I was attacking them. I don't even usually post on forums because they make me nervous, lol, so I'm going to run away now and stop saying the same shit over and over :P Until, of course, I can pithy my life back up. I hope I made some sense, Shwenn, and I'll stop wasting the internet now.

[Shwenn]

Hopefully I figured out how to use the quoting system right.

Let me start off by saying perhaps your sexuality is about whom you feel romantic love for. My sexuality is about who and how and when and why I want to fuck, thank you. Wrapped in with this is who I love, if I love, because often when I love someone I want to fuck them. But perhaps not, love and sex are strange things. I really dislike it when people tell me things, anything, about my sexuality, so we're even.

We disagree about that and that is fine. We can disagree. I'm glad people disagree with me. That's what makes life interesting. I'm not happy about how personally you've taken this. I certainly hope you don't feel you shouldn't disagree with me ever again.

My point was only to explain that I don't feel that bisexuality is inherently dubious. Some expressions of it are.

As for the gay comment: if you really feel that all my posts (which I have been sheepish about, until now) are just here to make more reductionary statements then I can't help you. I brought up the question of gay men in the context of every other sexuality and why we don't question them; it was to make a point about why we think this is okay to do for bisexuals and not anyone else, not to reduce gay men to buttfucking.

That wasn't directed at you. I don't think you reduced it to butt fucking. There are people who reduce male homosexuality to butt fucking and I take issue with that. Period.

This is true, but that doesn't mean buttsex doesn't happen, lol. The queer rights movement has moved into a trend of this sort of "we're just like you please don't hate us" defense, but I'd like more than tolerance on the basis that we live and love just as other humans do; it presupposes that I have to justify my humanity in the first place. And I'm just tired of having to act like sex doesn't happen in order to have my sexuality valued (this is talking about sexuality in terms of gaining acceptance in the greater world, but also apparently me and you). So that's the reason why I specifically talk about sex if I want to talk about sex, because I can and should. I didn't say anything against love, just for sex, so that's a distinction I make about whether my sexuality being about sex somehow demeans love (it doesn't, but if you choose to respect my sexuality only if I love someone, whaddaya gonna do).

Look, if you are not capable of romantic love with a woman and are only capable of romantic love with a man, I call that straight. If such a person were also capable of fucking a woman she but could never love a woman romantically, I would call that homophilia or something like that. Like, there is no such thing as necrosexuality since nobody will be able to love a corpse. All you would want to do it fuck it.

I can't help but be apologetic every time I post here because all I'm doing is hijacking this post and then defending what I said because I wasn't articulate enough to pull it off the first go 'round. I regret that I am not as succinct as you are, Shwenn.

Stop apologising. If we are open and honest with each other about what we think, if we try to stop ourselves getting defensive (and we're all subject to feeling that way) or needing agreement, only then can we come to any sort of understanding.

I understand that perhaps you are talking down to people who call themselves bisexual out of respect for actual bisexual people. This is not a viewpoint that I had thought of beforehand, and I actually appreciate it (as well as DowntownAmber for bringing it up last night). In response I can only say: as an actual bisexual person, I don't find this any more or less respectful than any other action, nor of any particular use, so I just don't get it. Saying someone might "have the audacity" to call themselves bisexual when they are not (and feeling the need to be angry/put them in their place by calling them "so-called") makes it seem like bisexuality is some pure, high state of being that gets sullied somehow by too many people misusing it. My qualm is not with the fact that people have different criteria for whether or not someone is bisexual and can rule people in or out of this category in their brains. It's that questioning or belittling or mistrusting any actual person who claims they are bisexual, even if they are not truly bisexual, does not do anything positive for the world. Even if it seems like we need to be defenders of the true faith, perhaps keeping out the not-truly-bi riffraff, I still say that someone else acting on their own sexuality, whether or not I think it is valid, does nothing to devalue my own. I don't know why it would devalue anyone else's or otherwise be a perceivable detriment besides proprietary annoyance (which is totally allowed, btw). This argument is not the intention of my post, but apparently the intention of the thread that I missed the first time, and this is the best way that I can process and respond to it. What are we, worried about street cred, here?

In closing, I'm sorry again to everyone who had to see these huge blocks of very unfun text in an otherwise fun place, or felt as though I was attacking them. I don't even usually post on forums because they make me nervous, lol, so I'm going to run away now and stop saying the same shit over and over :P Until, of course, I can pithy my life back up. I hope I made some sense, Shwenn, and I'll stop wasting the internet now.

I can't even make a point anymore. I am really sorry that I made you feel so attacked. That was so completely not my intention. I recognize that I make my points like a runaway freight train. It really does bother me when I see that my posting style has caused somebody real distress. I owe you an apology.

I really felt no ill will or anger or distaste for you at all when I made my post. I was just throwing ideas into the ether. I did it carelessly and thoughtlessly and I truly do feel bad that it made you feel the way it did.

I can only hope that it doesn't deter you from sharing your thoughts and ideas here in the future. I would hate myself if I had that effect on anybody.

[pervertedpages]

Yeah, I felt pretty attacked, but only because each line seemed to have something to do with something I had said. Especially the gay sex line, since was precisely the opposite of what I was trying to get across, and you making it seemed as though it was in reference to my post. Glad to know it wasn't.

I'll go ahead and say that I'm pretty much the most apologetic person in the world, so it's not even as though I was apologizing to you specifically, I just.. do that when I throw out opinions I feel strongly about. Thing about being Catholic and Asian is, you get guilty. And I honestly wasn't that affected by you, it's just that the nature about my feelings on these issues is pretty strong and so is going to sound kind of defensive. Actually, feeling like your post was meant towards me gave me an extra opportunity to get back up on my soapbox about terminology framing and clarify my thoughts for myself, so only good came of it from my end. It doesn't seem like anything that I actually had to say was communicated past your own need for me to stop apologizing, but that's fine. I'll keep sharing my thoughts and then keep making jokes about "wasting the internet" because that's what I do when I get self-conscious about talking too much. It happens, it'll keep happening.

I once saw a documentary about a man who was in a serious, loving online relationship, and then he realized that he was actually just in love with his iBook. So then the iBook and he dated for a while. Ultimately, it didn't work out but they're still friends. Wacky, mostly joking example of times when people feel real emotion for shit you and I wouldn't classify as in the realm of possibility for love. He didn't fuck his iBook, but he cried when they broke up... lol. Love? Sex? What?

[Shwenn]

I did understand what you were trying to say and I do appreciate where you are coming from. I just didn't care. All I could really care about was how attacked I had made you feel. Until that was cleared up, the label discussion was irrelevant to me.

How you treat people is very important. I feel strongly about that. That is truly the basis of my problem with the whole bisexuality thing. People's hearts and emotions do get very wrapped up in sex. I think you should be very careful about other people's hearts.

I see, regularly, that 'so-called' bisexuals are quite careless with 'actual' bisexuals and lesbians.

I do think it is possible to have sex without love where nobody gets hurt. But, just because you aren't interested in love doesn't mean that's how the situation is going to play out. If somebody thinks there is a possibility you might love them and that is not true, they are in a very precarious situation.

I see a lot of callousness. I also see it in a lot of purely straight women who have male friends. They know he loves her but pretend it's just a friendship. They pretend to be unaware of all the possibilities he thinks exist but truly don't.

It just seems to me that, if you had compassion for others, you wouldn't call yourself a bisexual if the possibility of love didn't exist. You wouldn't talk about labels, you would only care about making sure the other person didn't harbor secret, impossible hopes.

That's what really bothers me about it. I don't put bisexuals on a pedestal. I don't put anybody on a pedestal. I think we're all retards. Different groups tend to be retarded in different ways but we're all retarded.

Dan Savage has something called the 'campsite rule'. Whatever sexual relationship you get into, the golen rule is the campsite rule. Do everything in your power to make sure the person is as good or better off than when you found them.

It is possible that my experiences have not been representative of how these people really are. But, my experiences do cause me to think that these women who call themselves bisexual but could never love a woman are the kinds of people who leave trash and smoldering fire.