Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
That assumes that there is some kind of spiritual, or supernatural, aspect to our lives. I don't see that.

I see the same things you see, but I don't see them as miracles. I have this urge, this need, to look BEHIND the curtain, and see what's really going on. Assuming something is a miracle just because it feels good doesn't work. How can you then determine whether or not something which feels bad is or is not a miracle? When a plane crashes and one person survives, people are quick to claim a miracle. But what about the 100 or more people who died? Where was their miracle? If one of those who died were from your family, would you still see it as a miracle that one person survived? No, miracles are only ordinary occurrences which haven't yet been explained. Nothing supernatural about them.


its not about for me trying to ease suffering. Tragedy is tragedy and its not something i look to God to make sense of. Death is part of existence for all and there is usually something about it that makes it difficult regardless of how or what the death is about. I wake up and see the sunrise and to me I am grateful that I see it and feel gifted to have experienced that. I see people who had tried everything to stay sober and failed try AA and the program of action and recover. That is the miracles I see. As of yet science has not been able to help us. There is not treatment for us that has been successful for most of us outside of AA and that is a simple, spiritual program and those are the miracles i see. I have 3 kids and the miracle of this astounds me constantly. there is nothing behind the curtain in these. they just are the most incredible things i get to see everyday.

Well, that puts you miles ahead of the Pope, at least. He recently equated atheists with Nazis. And most fundamentalists believe that we atheists are inherently evil, since we don't have the same moral center as they do.


wasn't he a nazi?
No one says you're crazy! I just believe that you would be far better off if you could recognize your own self-worth without resorting to the supernatural. As I said, you've come a long way, and I give you full credit for every painful step.
why?