Quote Originally Posted by denuseri View Post
An atheist: is one who believes that there is no deity or takes a position that a deity (or deities) does not exist.
Note that second part, denuseri. There are two possibilities here, not just one. There are atheists who proclaim the first definition, they believe there are no gods. But I have repeatedly stated that this is NOT my position.

One can say its not a belief all they wish becuase they cant stand the word belief becuase they believe it to be a religious word in and of itself
When speaking of doorbells or puppies or almost anything else, the word belief is relatively innocuous. No one is going to claim you're a "puppiest" because you believe puppies are cute.

However, when you are involved in religious discussions, "belief" automatically assumes a religious connotation. Unfortunately the English language does not have a simple word that implies "belief" based on evidence and trust, especially in religious discussions. Therefore I try to avoid the use of the word, preferring to say that something is my opinion, based on learned trust of the evidence.

To Believe: is to have a firm conviction of somethiing, to hold an opinion on something, to consider something to be true or someone to be honest, to accept the word or evidence of someone or something, to have faith that what one believes is true and right.
And your definition just confirms my statement. The last part of the definition brings the word "faith" into the definition, which is another word fraught with religious overtones in any argument over religion, or atheism.

That they are provable or not has very little to do with the fact that they are still beliefs with varying degrees of faith in said beliefs all the same.
This comment underlines my contentions exactly. Saying "I believe the Earth is flat" does not have the same credence as saying "I believe the Earth is round." There is tremendous evidence for the latter, and none at all for the former. So I am saying that I KNOW the Earth is round, and you are claiming that this is a belief system.

If you Thorne can acept these above facts conserning the english languange then we can perhaps procced to have an actual logical conversation conserning this topic in so far as our respected beliefs and our faith in them may apply.
I can accept the definitions as you have described them, but that does not mean that every part of those definitions applies to everyone who "believes" something. So if you are willing to concede that the words "belief" and "believe" used in these discussions does NOT necessarily imply a religious-like, or faith-like, system then yes, I can go along with that. I "believe" that all religions are fiction, based on the lack of any evidence for the existence of the gods those religions worship. Show me good and proper evidence and I will renounce my belief and admit that yes, there just might be gods after all.

What would it take for you to renounce YOUR beliefs?

Hopefully without resorting to calling one side or the other full of doo hickie, or being purposfully insulting (which btw calling anyone who believes in god an idiot by defualt or associating their belief with that of fairy tales and spagetti monsters is in fact very deliberatly "insulting" I might add.)
I do try not to call anyone an idiot just because of their beliefs. But if someone says something idiotic, I will call them on it.

As for fairy tales, Dictionary.com says:
fairy tale
–noun
1. a story, usually for children, about elves, hobgoblins, dragons, fairies, or other magical creatures.
2. an incredible or misleading statement, account, or belief: His story of being a millionaire is just a fairy tale.
(Emphasis mine)

So if someone has incredible beliefs, they would qualify as a fairy tale. And by MY definition, belief without evidence is not credible! The above mentioned story of being a millionaire is NOT a fairy tale if he can show you his bank statements.