Advice Would Be Very Appreciated

[Devilkisses]

Okay, I've never started a thread before and have wanted to ask the other members for their advice on this for a LONG time, but didn't have the courage. Now it's gotten to the point where I need some help and suggestions now.

I'm pretty new to the lifestyle, although I've played around with bondage with other boyfriends before, we never put a name to it and I had never read about it. I stumbled on this forum about a year ago and realized what had been missing from my relationship and my life.

I went to my boyfriend who I've been in a vanilla relationship with for three years and live with, telling Him how much it interested me and how turned on I got by it. At first He was very unsure and then expressed a HUGE interest in it. We read everything we could get our hands on, talked it out at length, shared our fantasies (well I shared most of mine, He's a little shy about talking about those things) and decided to try playing.

We've been doing great and are incorporating it into other aspects of our lives as well and it's been working out pretty good. My problem is His attitude most of the time . . . well sucks! And I don't mean that he's not Dom-like (if that's a word lol), but he makes me feel badly about wanting to submit. If I come on to Him and let Him know that I'm in the mood to play He calls me a horny slut and laughs . . then pushes me away. Now I'm not against humiliation nor do I think what He's doing sounds very bad, but it really makes me feel like He's making a joke out of how much I want Him.

Another example: He will tell me to do things while we're playing (non-sexual even) such as eating off of the floor, which I find extremely humiliating (in a good way) and sexy as hell. But when I do it, He laughs and says things like "I just wanted to see if you'd actually do it" or " I can't believe you did that". This makes me feel soo bad about myself, like I'm nothing but an amusement to Him. I don't want Him to tell me to do things He finds funny, I want Him to order me to do things that He finds sexy.

I've told Him time and time again how this makes me feel and He always says He didn't mean it, or He's sorry and won't do it again. Yet the very next day . . . there He is making me feel bad about myself all over again. I've told Him that if He thinks it's degrading in a way that makes Him think less of me, that I want to stop and He says that He doesn't want to stop. I get the same answer when I ask Him if it maybe just isn't His thing. I don't know what's going on or what to do about it.

I don't know what I'm expecting by posting this, maybe some opinions on how to fix the situation or maybe any suggestions as to what's going on in His mind. It felt good just to get it off my chest, thanks for reading

[redEva]

I think you have expressed your problem and your feelings very clearly here, and I, for one, understand how you feel. Still, it is hard to give advice on a relationship to someone you don’t know.

It looks like you did everything right … from researching, exploring to talking about it. You said you are in relationship for 3 years … that is long time, one would expect that you two know each other pretty well by now.

What concerns me is that he is doing things that you specifically said you do not enjoy. Power play is tricky. Is it the embarrassment and humiliation that you go through when he degrades you by laughing at you, what turns him on? Or is he just being cruel to you?

The only thing I can suggest is stop playing until you two manage to really understand each other. Set hard limits and call the play off if they are pushed. You have to protect yourself, because it is so easy to get hurt and emotionally scared with things like this.

Good luck and feel free to talk to us, there is great many ppl around here that have been in your shoes.

[Aesop]

The only thing I can suggest is stop playing until you two manage to really understand each other. Set hard limits and call the play off if they are pushed. You have to protect yourself, because it is so easy to get hurt and emotionally scared with things like this.

I agree. You two should sit down and have a long talk about exactly what you both want from the bdsm portion of your lives.

I've told Him time and time again how this makes me feel and He always says He didn't mean it, or He's sorry and won't do it again. Yet the very next day . . . there He is making me feel bad about myself all over again.

As Redeva says it's hard to give advice to someone when you don't know them, but what you're describing sounds more like the actions of a bully than a dominant to me. Good luck to you.

[Devilkisses]

Thank you for your quick response guys (and girls) - can you tell I've been just chomping at the bit, waiting for a response??

redeva - I think that fact that we've been together for so many years is what the problem is . . . if it were a new relationship with someone I didn't know as intimately, I think I would just note it in my memory bank as an experience and find someone who treats me the way that I want to be treated. But I know this guy and I know, deep in my heart, that what He is doing is not intended to hurt me.The only thing I'm having a problem with is the way He makes light of the things I do for Him, which in my mind are all very special acts I would preform for NOBODY but Him. When He laughs it's like He just threw a very special gift right back in my face. I'm sort of wondering if that's His way of dealing with His feelings of unease about being Dominant (which He seems to have, but insists He loves it).

Aesop - I know exactly what You're talking about, He is acting exactly like a bully, someone who needs to make others feel worse to make Himself feel better. I really don't want to (nor do I) believe that He is like that. After 3 years you'd think I would have figured out that He's not a good guy at heart. To be fair to Him, and I always try to be, He does laugh at almost everything. Perhaps it is a defence mechanism, to fend off uncomfortable feelings - anytime we fight He thinks making a joke will make it better, sometimes it works!!!

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll try to talk to Him again tonight. Maybe He just doesn't want to admit that this really isn't His kink. The advise at least made me feel as though I can share my troubles - I've got small shoulders, it's nice to share the burden

[Pandora's Box]

You should have him research the submissive mindset - especially when elements of d/s pop up specifically. When a person goes into submissive mode, they have certain needs.

One of them is not being made to feel bad about being submissive.

If you have to drop articles on his lap about it with a written note from you and pound them into his head with a mallet, then do it.

[Ranai]

Hi Devilkisses, you might possibly be on the right track with what you say about his unease and uncomfortable feelings. When I first read your text I was wondering whether perhaps your boyfriend reacts like this because he feels embarrassed. It’s not always so easy to accept being turned on by ordering someone about and being obeyed.

The tension D/s creates can be felt very strongly on the top, and for a dominant who is learning it can be positively frightening to be freely given so much authority.

Perhaps your boyfriend tries to release the tension once in a while because he does not want the D/s interaction to give him a big head. Only this particular way of releasing tension is counterproductive, because it hurts you and makes you feel ill at ease – and not in a good way.

I think it is possible to take the responsibility for the submissive’s well-being that comes with dominating someone seriously, while at the same time not viewing D/s interaction as something that needs to be taken seriously all the time. Maybe, instead of laughing at you, he needs to learn to laugh at himself. Or just at the situation.

It could be great for your boyfriend to get in touch with other people who practise BDSM; online or in person. He could find out some more about the many and varied styles of domination; not all of them dead serious all the time. It could help him find his own style, gain self-assuredness while remaining flexible.

[csr]

... But I know this guy and I know, deep in my heart, that what He is doing is not intended to hurt me.The only thing I'm having a problem with is the way He makes light of the things I do for Him, which in my mind are all very special acts I would preform for NOBODY but Him. When He laughs it's like He just threw a very special gift right back in my face. I'm sort of wondering if that's His way of dealing with His feelings of unease about being Dominant (which He seems to have, but insists He loves it).

Defilkisses, there have been some very good points made in this thread; I hope you are able to sort this problem out. If he truly loves you then he really must not know how his actions hurt. Nobody would be intentionally mean to someone they love--and yet so often we do things that hurt without knowing. I hope that you can communicate your feelings to him as clearly as you have here. Good luck.

[phragmites]

dk: It's just like in real life. There's a difference between laughing with and laughing AT someone. There's definitely a place for humor in a D/s relationship, just as with any relationship. But there's no place for making you feel belittled. Humiliated as part of a scene because it turns him on, sure... as others have said... but his first responsibility as a Dom is for your health and welfare. That ABSOLUTELY COMES FIRST, before his own desires... it's that little known secret of submission, that that concern for the other person works both ways.

Maybe he, or both of you, should try to look at the relationship NOT as one of "domination" but one of "mastery." It sounds like the same thing but it isn't. Domination is forcing your will on someone. Mastery is accepting their submission. Domination/submission is really a misnomer: you can't actually submit to domination, by definition. Mastery involves real responsibility for the person who submits to you. Good models for mastery can be found outside the bedroom too: a good teacher, for example. Think Yoda ;-). Not everythign Yoda had Luke do was something Luke wanted to do. Not everything was something Luke even believed was for his own good. And Yoda laughed plenty. But he didn't laugh AT Luke. Yeah, I know, Star Wars as how to live your life is pretty silly but, hey, it's our shared mythology in this modern age . Or, maybe he's had a pet (not that you're a pet in your relationship but again, it's a situation requiring Mastery) -- if you have a pet dog who worships you and wants to please you, you can require it to do any number of things that it might not choose to do normally: roll over, sit and wait while there's food tempting it... whatever. But you don't do things specifically to make the dog feel bad about itself for your own amusement: you don't say "bad dog!" when it hasn't been bad just to laugh at it cowering, do you?

Anyway, I wish you the best in this and I think you probably shouldn't offer your submission to him until he understands his responsibilities in return... M/s is built on a foundation of trust and honesty and responsibility... make sure those are firmly in place first.

Best wishes,
phragmites

[Ruby]

I've told Him time and time again how this makes me feel and He always says He didn't mean it, or He's sorry and won't do it again. Yet the very next day . . . there He is making me feel bad about myself all over again.

Devilkisses,

This is the line that really got to me on so many levels.
Great advice and comments so far.

My two cents:

This has become a habit to him.
Habits are hard to break when they are pleasurable.
He must be getting something out of treating you this way, or he wouldn't do it.

However, if the next time he pulls that crap, you quietly, stand up, not say a word and just leave the room. That would be making a big statement.

If you continue doing so, or whatever you choose to do to let him know that he's crossed a line - a hard limit with you - then you are taking back control.

In many ways, his insecurity about his role, has become a test to see how far he can push you and what he can get away with.

You are submissive to him, because you choose to be.
If he can't be a responsible dom, then its time to end the play and reset your expectations.

To your success,

Ruby

[Devilkisses]

Thank you so much to everyone who replied to this. I apologize for not responding sooner, but we were away for the weekend and have been busy this week.

Pandora - thank you, I am going to research that and give Him some material on that. I've found a few sites for subs only with comments on how submission makes them feel. I think I'll direct Him to some if those as well. This was especially helpful advice as it was something that I never thought of.

Ranie - I appreciate your thoughts on this, perhaps I haven't been as sensitive to the changes this creates in His life and need to focus on His feelings as well. Difficult but necessary, if He would only tell me when He feels pressured so that I may ease it

csr - you're probably right that He doesn't realize that He's doing it, I know that He would never intentionally hurt me, so often in our lives we don't realize how our actions can affect others.

phragmites - That's exactly what I mean, I don't mind Him laughing, I want Him to have a great time, but I don't want to be laughed AT. I don't see it as humiliation (which I like), it's degradation which I don't like and He knows this. I mean, who wants to feel like they are just a joke? I want Him, if this makes sense, to be proud of me for completing tasks that may be things I don't like (although within my stated limits) instead of shocked and amused.

Ruby - As it usually does when I read your posts, your advice has once again, hit home for me. He isn't being very responsible and caring. I don't understand why this would have become a habit, He says He doesn't get anything out of it, but you're probably right. What could He possibley get out of making me feel bad? I appreciate the fact that you offered a suggestion of what to do should the situation arise again. I've been afraid of voicing this opinion during a scene because I was afraid to make Him uncomfortable, I've always brought it up later in a neutral environment. I will try that if it happens again, but I don't think that it will for a while because . . .

I have decided to stop playing with Him like that for a while. He doesn't want to stop and He promises to try harder, but my self-esteem has dropped and I don't feel as comfortable as I did with Him. Since this is my first D/s relationship, I'm extremely hurt and confused as to how I should feel. I want to reevaluate His actions toward me and my feelings about them. I refuse to lose who I am as a person, even for the extreme pleasure I get from submitting to Him. I don't want to lose Him or what we have outside of this, so I will simply wait until we have enough time for a serious talk again.

Thank you so very much for the help, it's great to know that there are people out there who care about the plights of others.

Have a happy holiday everyone!

[sensualist]

what an excellent topic. DK, I am beyond impressed that you have this much sorted out at your age, and how articulate you are at expressing it.

I am proud of you for identifying what works for you and putting a stop to your work in the scene with him.

sounds to me like there are deeper issues at play, and boy-oh-boy, nothing like a little D/s to amplify certain things. it's smart of you to take a step or three back and really look at what you're getting (or not) from him, and the fact that he goes to degredation is not good. the bigger issue, though, is that he does not listen to you and respect your requests and your boundaries. this is something extremely significant to focus upon.

maybe he only has a few years on you, in which case, you're both sorting out your thoughts on things and understanding your limits just in a vanilla way. adding D/s changes things considerably and in my thinking, it is something that is best explored after one has more life under their belt. but that's probably a whole 'nother thread.

I guess my biggest point is that it's REALLY important to clearly see that you are not being respected when you are being clear about your likes and dislikes, and are not being honored. I've done that same thing "but I know how much he cares about me deep down" "I know who he reeeeally is".

I think it would be really difficult to work with an inexperienced dom - to train him, in a sense. your guy needs to mature and to study the scene from both sides in order to understand where he fits in all of this.

good luck and kudos for walking away from this for a bit and protecting yourself. you really get it, sister!!

[Katmandu]

WOW! Reading your plight, sounds like reading my own journal, devilkisses!

That is exactly what I have been through with Barton, for 2 years, since we started D/s. Apparently, what I wanted out of our relationship, ultimately, was not what He wanted. Nor was anything that He was capable of changing, quite enough to suit my needs. We have started/ stopped our D/s play, more times than I can count, just like you've decided recently.

We always start it up, again, after much research and discussions. It is truly something we both want, just in different ways. Currently, in our newest version, I have been the one to back down on my innermost fantasies and desires, and made our play~ just THAT~ "play". It has created some satisfying scenes.

However, like Ruby suggested, if I get into subspace, and the entire flavor turns sour because of His actions/reactions, I end the scene and walk away. Actually, I usually curl up alone somewhere and cry! After all, at this point I am sexually and emotionally frustrated. He usually catches on, and will come hug-sooth me, but the "play" is definitely over for that night. No sense in tearing ourselves up inside, over losing at a 'game', now, is there?

I, personally, will live with this. He, as He loves me very much, continues to try to learn to compromise for me, and learn as much as possible about fulfilling my needs. It is, and will continue to be, like a difficult college-level class.....something that will ALWAYS take tons of effort, on both our parts. Ultimately, though, while never quite satisfying 100% of our individual desires, it will satisfy some parts of who/what each of us are. After all, all relationships are built around give and take, no?

[feelfree2mailme]

I think he's started to think less of you after this whole BDSM thing. Maybe he's lost respect for u. But he just likes to play and hence he soothes ur mind by appologising. He likes to humilitate u 'cause it gives him a sense of power but at the same time he doesnt understand the complexity of role playing.

It's not worth it according to me. Either keep a vanilla relationship or search for someone who understands.

[learningtopleez]

Hi Devilkisses,

It seems to me that you are figuring things out pretty well! With the help of our esteemed forum members, many of which have tons of experience, you can't go wrong!

I, however, don't have tons of experience, but I do feel that when submitting to your Dom, you should be made to feel....well...submissive...and beautiful in your submissiveness. My last Dom aka Max aka "the teacher" was always very careful to make sure I was okay, in anything we might be doing. He constantly asked me if I was okay, especially if something humiliating were taking place. And he always told me how beautiful I was to him when I did submit to him in any way. We also laughed....but it was always together. *sigh* He has probably ruined me for any other Dom....as I felt that with him I was always cared for and loved when we were together.

Okay...enough of that! But it is just my own personal opinion of how a submissive should be treated. And btw...he wasn't a boyfriend...lol...I met him on the net. We basically got together for the bdsm stuff, cause I wanted to learn. And about the age thing that sensualist mentioned...he was my age. I had only one Dom before him who was much younger...and while he never laughed at me, he did make me feel badly about myself at times. So that didn't last too long.

Anywahoo...I hope the two of you can work this out...and I truly feel you have done the best thing for now....taking a step back until you both (especially him) figure out exactly how you want this to be. I wish you the best sweets!

[Devilkisses]

Thanks again for responding, the support from everyone in this forum has been amazing and priceless. I can't believe that I found such friendly and helpful people who, to top it all off, actually care about the plights of others.

Sorry if my replies are long, but I want to respond to each person individually, since you all took the time and energy to reply to me.

sensualist - I think you may be right about it being about other issues, every relationship has plenty of them. Perhaps He doesn't respect me period, but I pray that this is not the case. I think that He is also having trouble with the fact that I'm different from other people period, I think that the worst thing in life would be to be ordinary ... 'normal' (didn't someone in American Beauty say something like that). This is just another way that I'm different from His past girlfriends (something I'm proud of, after all I'm still around ) and His friends girlfriends. And it is very difficult to try to show Him what I want since He is new to this, hell I'm new to this too - I just wanted it to be a journey we took together, not one where one of us is left at the side of the road to cry.

Katmandu - Isn't it wonderful when you think you're the only one experiencing a particular problem, and then find that there are others who are in the exact same shoes??? I appreciate you letting me know that, it gives me hope for the future. I like that you are willing to live with the problems that come with it, after all the guys are trying for us aren't they? It's not like they are purposely ruining our fantasies or hurting our souls, I honestly believe that. I end up crying alone too and He's standing there asking me why I'm so upset - it was just a joke.

feelfree2mailme - You may be right, although I hope and pray that you aren't. I don't want Him to lose respect for me over this, I haven't lost respect for myself. I think it's liberating to say "this is what I need" and refuse to feel like it's shameful - it has made me more comfortable with myself. You know that feeling when you slip on a sexy dress and think "this dress was made for me to wear it", that's kinda how submitting makes me feel. Thank you very much for your blunt response - truth can hurt sometimes can't it! I may need to go back to a vanilla relationship with Him if He can't understand, which would be a shame because I never really enjoyed sex before this, let alone housework lol - leaving Him is NOT an option He's my man and I don't believe in abandoning my man because He can't give me everything I need/want.

learningtopleez - Thanks for the support and sharing of your stories, it always makes me feel better to have people who have felt similar things. I hope that we can work it out as well because it was amazing when He didn't laugh, and there were plenty of times when He didn't. It must have been wonderful for you to have someone like Max to learn and grow with. The way you described feeling is what I'm looking for, a sense of love, peace, and that you're exactly where you're meant to be in the world. *sigh* Nothing and nobody is perfect though, and I might do better if I remind myself that sometimes . . . that and He can't read my mind. I need to tell Him when He's doing something I think, not after it never seems to have the same effect.

Well guys, I came looking for advice and I got it plus warnings, help, stories and a huge helping of good-old-fashioned kindness. Thanks the world could do with more people like this!

Love and Hugs
Devilkisses

I'd rather be hated for who I am, then loved for who I'm not