Experienced or Not??

I wanted to ask this question in response to a post in another thread without messing up that person's thread...

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Before limiting yourself to "experienced only," realize that finding a new inexperienced Dom/me and learning together can be a very good way to go. Being in a situation where you are both learning can be a relationship builder. It will also give you a lot to laugh about in the future.

Even if you find the perfect "experienced" Dom/me, you are still going to have to work on your relationship. It's not fair to put all the weight of knowing what to do on them alone.

I hope you land a great one. Good luck!

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I personally would only want an experienced Master for a few reasons:

1. I have no experience, so would need to be shown many things I'm sure
2. I would have more trust in an experienced Master's knowledge
3. I am a submissive and have zero desire to lead any Master anywhere

I understand that both parties learn from each other as they go along, yes, but as the submissive looking for a very strong lead (one stronger than my already strong will), it would have to be from an experienced Dominant.

As soon as I have to take the lead and show a Dominant the way, all thoughts of them Domming me go flat. I have talked with many new Dominants and have happily helped them along their path, but would then never consider them for my Dominant.

We all have to start somewhere, yes, but that's just how it is for me ;)

How is it for you? :)

I think the question has to be asked 'where do all the experienced Doms come from?' By your philosophy above, an inexperienced sub can easily get training and become experienced through experienced Doms. However, an inexperienced Dom cannot gain anything because they always have to be more experienced than the sub. So, the BDSM world will be serviced by a rapidly ageing and dwindling supply of experienced Doms (who will get more and more popular and overworked as more and more inexperienced subs enter the market) while a large number of inexperienced Doms hang around with no one to be Master of because they are not experienced enough.

Ok, taking it to extremes a little there but you do see what I mean, I hope?

I personally do not think that inexperience is related to ability to be a Dom. You can be more dominant than someone and yet still less experienced. One is nature with a little bit of education and experience to refine it while the other is purely learnt.

I am personally of the 'learn together camp'. While it is great to have a more experienced Master (and I can see why you would desire it) I do not think it is necessary. I am also aware that 'experience' is rarely linear or equally distributed with time. 'I have had 5 years experience of the lifestyle' could mean 'I have been to a lot of seminars, worked with a lot of subs, done workshops and demos and really worked at the art of BDSM for many years' or it could mean 'I have read a lot of internet forums and once whipped a girl at her hen night'. I have known people with both those CV claim to be 'experienced'. There is always more you can learn no matter how experienced you are.

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Originally Posted by fetishdj

I think the question has to be asked 'where do all the experienced Doms come from?' By your philosophy above, an inexperienced sub can easily get training and become experienced through experienced Doms. However, an inexperienced Dom cannot gain anything because they always have to be more experienced than the sub. So, the BDSM world will be serviced by a rapidly ageing and dwindling supply of experienced Doms (who will get more and more popular and overworked as more and more inexperienced subs enter the market) while a large number of inexperienced Doms hang around with no one to be Master of because they are not experienced enough.

Ok, taking it to extremes a little there but you do see what I mean, I hope?

I personally do not think that inexperience is related to ability to be a Dom. You can be more dominant than someone and yet still less experienced. One is nature with a little bit of education and experience to refine it while the other is purely learnt.

I am personally of the 'learn together camp'. While it is great to have a more experienced Master (and I can see why you would desire it) I do not think it is necessary. I am also aware that 'experience' is rarely linear or equally distributed with time. 'I have had 5 years experience of the lifestyle' could mean 'I have been to a lot of seminars, worked with a lot of subs, done workshops and demos and really worked at the art of BDSM for many years' or it could mean 'I have read a lot of internet forums and once whipped a girl at her hen night'. I have known people with both those CV claim to be 'experienced'. There is always more you can learn no matter how experienced you are.

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No, my question was.....

Experienced or Not - not where the experience comes from - as stated, I realize we all have to learn from somewhere and I have helped many learn along the way.

You've over perpetuated the scenario, obviously and were it even remotely accurate would see a whole different flux in the BDSM society. There are many subs and other Dominants that mentor and teach prospective new Dom's in their journey, so we know they are learning, geesh. :icon176:

As we are ALL fond of saying - we are ALL different and have different but similar things we want, I was just trying to see how many felt the same as I and how many didn't - simple :cool:

I don't have a 'preference', just my own very limited experience to draw on. I first tried to help my husband become my 'Dom', with no knowledge of my own except what I read. I found two things: 1) He has no 'inner Dom' just bursting to be set free and 2) although I was more than willing to travel this path with him, I did need him to educate himself and at least learn some healthier ways to 'be a Dom' that I felt safe with. He wouldn't, so I don't, with him. That experiment lasted not quite a year. Now, I am with someone who does have more experience than me, but has been selective in His choices of subs. The neatest thing is, we have recently begun traveling a path that is new to us both. And we trust each other with that - I trust Him to think it through and get what knowledge and self-knowledge He needs, and He trusts me to communicate and always speak up if/when we are going somewhere I'm not ready for. We support each other in ways I've only begun to comprehend. I guess I have the best of both worlds. :D

That being said, I can see a point in time where I *might* be willing to submit to a new Dom, for the purposes of helping him and letting him experience in real life how it feels to do certain things, to have power...but would have a hard time thinking of him as 'my Dom'. Of course, if the one I do think of as my Dom (it still feels strange to write that, after almost a year) asked me to submit to a new Dom for Him, with His supervision...yeah. Then I definitely would.

When I met my Master online He had only had online experience and that was limited. I'd had very little real life experience and most of mine was online. So when W/we actually got together W/we began to learn together. And I have enjoyed O/our journey like this. Yes, there have been times when I've wanted to be with someone who has had years of experience, because there have been times when Master and I were just fumbling around, trying to find O/our way. But I would never leave Master or trade Him in for someone else. Right now W/we are at a great place on O/our path. W/we are still learning and growing together and still loving this journey that W/we are on.

I guess it depends on your definition of experience. One can state to have x amount of years in the lifestyle but have not gained anything or learned anything. Master had 30+ years experience when I met him and me 5 at the time. I have managed to teach him some things in our 8 years together.:)

What experience means to someone is very subjective. Just because someone has so many years doesn't mean they know it all or have stopped learning. If someone gets to a point where they think they have all the knowledge then they have already lost allot of knowledge in my opinion.

I have had dominants that had much experience and ones that had none. For me the experience of serving them and being their slave was no less. Helping someone learn can be quite rewarding to all involved. It all depends on what someone wants and finds to be more compatible. We all have our preferences and should live by that.

We enjoy mentoring dominants, subs and slaves. Some people just enjoy teaching as well as learning.

Just my two cents.

Yes, jeanne, I too tried to walk my ex-husband down that path before learning that you can't 'make' a Dom lol ;)

Of course on the experience note, we can all lie but this post assumes, for the benefit of the doubt and sake of theory and arguments.....that experienced means they have some real experience, not fake made up experience - in my opinion, fake experience is easy to spot anyway so why even bring it into the debate? Yes, we can all still be fooled even after taking all necessary steps (I'm a shining example), but I still go with the hope that I'll sort out the fakes from those that are real.

Many that do have REAL/TRUE experience are past that stage where they think it's all about the kinky sex and are more willing to take on the mental/emotional journey and responsibility - that's the bit I'm after ;)

Hi gem, as you prefer an experienced som, i do prefer the inexperienced for now. I definitely do not wish to teach one inexperienced after the other how best to dom.. I cannot even teach mine, he has to find out by himself. All I can do with my own limited experience is to tell him what I do and do not like and let him explore. As you can see in the advice appreciated-threat, this is not ithout complications. I do have no whish to top from the bottom and try to avoid it, and if he would just do everything just as I tell him it would feel like domming myself... nevertheless my inexperienced one has an inner dom, he knows how to take me and still needs communication even more than more experienced doms...
Beeing pretty new and sometimes a bit afraid of my own desires he is just what I need to make me feel comfortable. I talked to a lot of more experienced doms and often felt a little overwhelmed.. so even the new doms can find a partner... and I fully accept mine as beeing the boss.

greetings deigja

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Originally Posted by deigja

.....I talked to a lot of more experienced doms and often felt a little overwhelmed.. so even the new doms can find a partner... and I fully accept mine as beeing the boss....

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Awesome perspective - thank you :)

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Originally Posted by mastersgem

Many that do have REAL/TRUE experience are past that stage where they think it's all about the kinky sex and are more willing to take on the mental/emotional journey and responsibility - that's the bit I'm after ;)

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Yep - being with someone who knows it's more than the 'kink' is wonderful. It's the integration of all the aspects of our relationship that I enjoy, the kink being one piece of the puzzle, which wouldn't be there without all the rest. :)

humm are yu experienced,,??(jimmy hendrix)) its my own experience that a dom with lil experience is ok if he is 1-Strong willed, 2- smart enough to find out the nessesary info before doing sumthing to me, etc, 3-knows me and my responses way before play time & 4-allows me to know him just as well, ive been around the block a few times i started knowing absolutly nothing and realize you have to learn somewhere, back when i was younger after my first dom and his wife, i went out determined to find and or make a dom if nessesary,, in desperation we found an older more experienced dom to teach him and in the prossess i ended up with Him instead of my newbie, but that was all real life training, a far different cry from on line, my experience via hind sight was i need a dom thats in charge and knows more than i do, and that worked for a long time for me. now, ive become kinda a teacher online at times to those that need the help, and even enjoyed online experiences with not so experienced doms ,but alas everyone is different, and the bdsm side of a relationship should never comepletely dominate the two peoples lives, even in a so called 24/7, the base of any relationship should be love

I think there's a big difference between a sub showing a new Dom the ropes, & him learning by himself.

To me, it's crucial to know what makes my girl tick, what works & what doesn't- but that's an ongoing thing which will never end.

Learning about being a Dom is also something I see as ongoing- it's something inside of me that is far far more than getting a breast harness just right, or clipping the leash on at just the right moment.

Besides, it's different every time- a sub is an individual & all are deliciously different. :D

My own Sir was experienced and being my first(and only) Dom, I trust Him to tell me things I need to improve on in my submission as well as be open enough for me to tell Him what is in my comfort zone at the time. He is patient and understanding where I've had some experience with those who beleive themselves Dominant (laughably so in some cases) who basically want a mommy figure to top them who are impatient and don't care about the sub.
I know that everyone has to start somewhere, but I never found myself pulled to a man that I could top, even if he was learning. But again this is what I needed in a Dom, someone confident and intelligent enough to handle me, my quirks, and my baggage. (I have so much I had to check it at the airport, seriously)
I've had relationships in which I've been told that I'm too much to handle or that I'm (and I quote) the type of woman that should never be pinned down, I need to run free without a collar or ties, when all I wanted was a collar and to be tied. (Some of these were people attempting to "man up" for me). An experienced Dom would have (and did) see the need I felt and snatched up the opportunity, while an inexperienced may have seen me as another Domme.

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Originally Posted by Tojo

Learning about being a Dom is also something I see as ongoing- it's something inside of me that is far far more than getting a breast harness just right, or clipping the leash on at just the right moment.

Besides, it's different every time- a sub is an individual & all are deliciously different. :D

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Exactly!!:exellent1

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Originally Posted by denuseri

humm are yu experienced,,??(jimmy hendrix)) its my own experience that a dom with lil experience is ok if he is 1-Strong willed, 2- smart enough to find out the nessesary info before doing sumthing to me, etc, 3-knows me and my responses way before play time & 4-allows me to know him just as well...."

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Damn that is so spot on lol - Thank you :D

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Originally Posted by Tojo

"..... a sub is an individual & all are deliciously different....." :D

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Absolutely ;)

I think it depends on what your definition of "inexperienced" is. For me, it usually means one of two things:

1. The Dom/me has done a lot of research, learning and soul searching on their own, but just hasn't been able to find the right partner in order to experiment with.
2. The "Dom/me" only has preconceived notions of what BDSM is, has zero knowledge, wants to "try it out and see if I like it" and generally thinks that being Dominant is a great way to get lots of blow jobs.

I could live with the first, but certainly not the second. I have no interest in being anyone's kinky experiment.

When I was looking for a Dom I was also looking for a life partner. Therefore I was looking for someone who had enough experience to know what they were looking for. It wasn't about "play" anymore.... and I needed to find a partner that matched philosophies with me. I really just wasn't interested in waiting around for someone to figure things out for themselves.

It had nothing to do with X number of years of experience, or X number of submissives. I really take very little stock in either of these. Years of experience could mean that someone tied up their girlfriend when they were 18, now they are 50, so they have "22 years of experience". And an excessive number of submissives just says to me they can't handle a long term relationship. I wouldn't want to be with someone who had five ex-wives so why would I be so impressed by how many subs they had?

So for me, it is a lot more about knowledge than experience... but you need to have a bit of experience to get that knowledge.

I don't in any way think that I am under some kind of duty to provide experience to dominants out of some kind of benevolance. Maybe if I had different goals in mind for myself (like a more casual relationship), but that just wasn't the case. How do inexperienced Dom/mes fine their way? I have no idea, but anyone who is serious tends to find a way.

How do virgins manage to lose their virginity? They always seem to find a way as well...

I think regardless of where either person starts, some of the best times are when both explore together something that is new territory for both. A hypothetical "completely experienced" Dom/me couldn't do that, which would be sad in my view. A cute little paradox...

Ultimately it's clearly a personal choice, but for me a really good connection between us trumps experience.

experience can not create talent. but it can augment it *smile*

thats so true alpha hugs, talent is a requirment on both the dom and subs part, experience just helps it along,, kinda like a wider knowledge base is all, i have seen many a dom/domme and sub that had been in the bdsm way for many years and still didnt have much talent at the art of submission and or control

I agree with alpha -- very well said :) If I had the choice between an intuitive and an experienced dom I'd take the intuitive one, simply because it's nothing you can learn. To me, it's not so much about experience or inexperience, it's about the person first. If it clicks, it clicks. And if it clicks, the rest usually falls into place quite nicely. :)

The more I look at lifestyle relationships, the more I recognize they are really no different than non-lifestyle relationships.

My perspective is that two inexperienced people can learn and grow with each other... BUT, all too many times, these relationships will fail and it's the second or third person you meet who benefits most from what you learned with the first girl/boyfriend.

That's why young love, though romantic, fails more often than not... sometimes quickly, sometimes after years of unhappy marriage.

I see those parallels in this conversation.

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Originally posted by Polaris:
simply because it's nothing you can learn

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But...really depends on what you mean by "intuitive." I can't say if I'm intuitive the way you mean it. On the other hand, I am sensitive to my wife when we're together, and try to take clues as to how she is from the way she moves, from her expressions and especially the way she says things, as opposed to what she says (or only what she says). Sometimes the body language and tone of voice speak louder and more truly than words alone. In other words I try to be sensitive to her and what she needs. Sensitivity can be learned.

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Originally Posted by ashtonDs

gem, *he says from under the table...anticipating a vigorous response*

What I am talking about is beginning a relationship between two relatively inexperienced people. It is not about leading or teaching your Dom/me. imho it seems like many subs are looking for the perfect Dom/me, pre-packaged and ready to go. If the two of you are inexperienced what makes you think you know more than your Dom/me partner? What makes you think you can, or should, lead. Even if you find an experienced top, there are still things you two will have to discover about each other.

If you connect with an inexperienced partner who is looking to explore a bdsm relationship, you aren't going to need to "teach" or "lead" them anywhere. They are going to study and learn their reponsibilities as you will learn yours, and the two of you will grow together.

One thing that I see in some of the responses here is that some folks are equating learning along side a new but definitely dominant partner with teaching someone who barely knows what kink is, totally from scratch, and on top of that teaching them how to top. These are entirely different scenarios.

I want to address your three concerns:


What makes you think a new Master won't go out and learn them and show them to you? It would definitely happen that way with me.


Why wouldn't you trust a Master who is gaining knowledge when you know where and from whom it is learned? If we were our hypothetical new couple, I would seek out an experienced Dom/me (with a sub) to help us along. (What if all the Dom/mes you approached said I don't want you, too inexperienced?)


What makes you think your new Dom/me will let you? Again, if you were with me you could maybe make suggestions, but there's no way you would lead me. The final decision would be mine and mine alone.

It seems as if you have a preconcieved notion of life with Master. Dreams are nice. Plans are too. But if you find a person you can get along with and want to grow with, you gotta discover a lot of the rules as you go.

I hope you see this for what it is, (part of a spirited discussion) and what it is not (an attack on anyone). It's just that it has woken up my dominant side a bit. I'm relatively inexperienced. But because I am, don't think I would look to learn it all from a sub. I would go where the knowledge I seek is, with the Dom/mes.

*crawls out from under table and picks up a paddle...smiles and says...any questions ;)*

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well first; You have presented yourself in these scenario's as more than inexperienced but already have gained a handle and some knowledge so therefore it wouldn't apply would it? You haven't come across as a complete inexperienced newbie, at least in my opinion. (added)

second, i'm a fairly strong willed person and Top easily without even realizing it, if a man lets me lead, i will and will resent him entirely for it. That's what i meant by inexperienced ones don't get how to take a will such as mine, look past it and pull the submissive to the surface instead - that takes experience and knowing

young, new, inexperienced doms just taking their first steps (at least in MY experience - i'm not making a generality so y'all can back off from flaming this statement please) - they come at you all POWERFUL, you will!!! and all kinky sex, you must submit! - they are new and don't understand what to do with this need to Dominate. More experienced (both mentally and physically) Masters have sorted themselves out, calmed down, made realizations to their own personal desires in a sub and so on. They no longer require to Prove their Dominance, they just are because they have learned.

You have put yourself in my example as a personal reference; i wasn't directing myself or my post at you personally or who you are or your experience or lack there of at all.

I do understand about learning about each other and no two are the same, obviously there are things to learn on both sides, yes and how that learning happens is a direct relation to what experience he or she has no?

Ok...i guess i will speak up on this.....Gem is not knocking new masters she is just saying she would perfer an experianced one.....i am a master and i have experianced one...do i know it all? fuck no...will i ever learn it all hmmm maybe maybe not......even if i did learn it all would you not still go through a learning process with a new subbie learning her limits her needs ect? just like an experianced subbied would learn from a new dom? life is about learning the day we all stop learing is the day we might as well die.......i will allways strive to learn from all sources be it trial and error research experimentation ...or by asking questions of others and by listening to others......and remember this everyone is entitled to their opinions everyone has opinions sometimes we agree sometimes we dont it just the way thing s are

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Originally Posted by MasterStone

Ok...i guess i will speak up on this.....Gem is not knocking new masters she is just saying she would perfer an experianced one.....i am a master and i have experianced one...do i know it all? fuck no...will i ever learn it all hmmm maybe maybe not......even if i did learn it all would you not still go through a learning process with a new subbie learning her limits her needs ect? just like an experianced subbied would learn from a new dom? life is about learning the day we all stop learing is the day we might as well die.......i will allways strive to learn from all sources be it trial and error research experimentation ...or by asking questions of others and by listening to others......and remember this everyone is entitled to their opinions everyone has opinions sometimes we agree sometimes we dont it just the way thing s are

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*big hugs and kisses my big friend* i appreciate the support xoxo and you've summed it up very well :)

mastersgem,

I'm sorry you were hurt by my post (#13). It all did not come out the way I wanted it to and I should have just deleted it and not posted.

I asked that it be removed.

no worries ash, seems we were both just misunderstanding the other - all good :)

imo the best doms don't need experience... they just need to know what they want out of a sub... and that's more of a gut instinct than anything else anyway...

just a thought :)

I've been thinking about that alot. Maybe that "gut instinct" is really sensitivity. A good Dom/me learns to read a subs facial expression, their tone of voice, body language, as well as listens to what a sub says.

If you keep doing anything long enough you will gain experience. That is not difficult to get. Having that same experience with a good reputation is more difficult but in the end more satisfying for all involved.