Everyone makes mistakes...but not a Dom...?

What do you do when you are in a D/s relationship where the Dom disciplines you when you do the wrong things (DD pretty much)...but then he turns around and does the wrong things as well? No body is perfect, but how can one sit back and take a spanking for arriving home late because of traffic when that persons Dom came home late 3 weeks earlier because of a late night at the office? It's just that I grew up in a household where my father did everything right. I'm serious. The man hardly made any mistakes. The only thing I could say he is guilty of is procrastination. He hasn't cleaned the basement in years. But that's HIS area anyway. Only HE goes down there. It's allowed to be a little cluttered. But, when it came to other people, he was always punctual. He is the closest thing to perfection pretty much. So I never ever had an issue being scolded by him because he always followed his own advice and teachings. If I were, say, under the tutelage of a parent who got on me about drugs and scolded me for drinking but went through 6 packs of cigarettes a day, I'd have a beer bottle in my hand as I write this. Hypocrisy is one thing I cannot stand, especially from someone in charge of the way I do things. How am I supposed to model after that? What I'm afraid of is being punished by a Dom who makes the same mistakes (or mistakes period) without being kept in check. Not that I want to discipline anybody. I'm strictly sub. But the discipline turns a little hollow when the enforcer turns out to be a hypocrite who is telling me not to curse ever but then curses a blue street in bed when he calls me a 'fucking whore' (for fun but still...). No one's perfect. But how does one take instruction from someone who pretty much makes the same mistakes as you? Better still, how can I stop from rebelling from this person (like the example I gave you with the drinking)? Because I honestly see myself saying "No I will not go over your lap for a spanking. Didn't you just do [fill-in-the-blank] last weekend?"

Well I suppose that this is that 'grey area'. If the dominant partner comes home late for whatever reason he/she doesn't realy see this as wrong (in this case....atleast). They most likely see it as just getting home late. They are the dominant they don't have any 'rules' regarding that.

That is just my opinion.


*shrugs*

Had to add this. If it is or becomes an issue, bring it up.

I have allways prefered to lead by example as opposed to the "Do as I say, not as I do" approach.

So what would I do about such a situation? Tell my Dom to grow up a little?

I would approach him and explain to him how you feel. Be polite about it, try not to come off as really upset. But I suppose you could show some feelings on the issue.

Explain to him how you feel about it. Don't use a phrase like "Grow up". That won't go over well.

Just be respectful.

interesting thought, as any dominant takes on the responsibility of a submissive, not only are you a friend, a lover, or anything else that the dominant wants you to be, but you also take on the aspects of an artist's rendition in it's developemental beginnings, there fore the don is probably bring you to your potential masterpiece by having you learn to be that which he has not been able to obtain, every sub is a work of perfection for the gift they give to a dominant, and the dominant refines that even further in the rules they lay down for the submissive. every dom is an artist as we mold our submissives to our version of perfection. so of course our works of art are a higher standard than what we can hope to obtain. again i hope that makes some sense.

but yes, every submissive should explain how they feel to thier dom. i agree with Mr. tomcat in this. otherwise how is the dominant going to know if there is something that is out of 'whack' before more 'whacks' result

to keep the D/s relationship true, tell him it is hard to follow the directions he has set for you when he himself does not abide by them. Tell him it give you the feeling of "why should I when he doesnt"
Of course the counter arguement is the do as i say, not as i do deal...but that is between you and him.

p.s. i never make mistakes im perfect! lol

Some double-standards are really asinine, but I don't find any inconsistancy in the cursing example. Since time immemorial, men have held themselves to a different standard than women when it comes to using foul language. I think some subs might find it comfortable to be held to a standard of cleaner language and greater purity.

Heck, you can make a case that master/slave relationships are BUILT on designing divergent standards of behaviour- at least in terms of consequences for infractions. Some of these standards make sense because of kink or comfort or historical context, and some don't and are just a sign of weakness and hypocrisy on the part of the dom.

(And just as a side note, having nothing to do with bambina's actual objection and having strictly to do with play, I sorta like the idea of using an inconsistancy in behaviour to make a sub feel like dirt. There's something sadistic about coming home late and saying to her "Yeah, I'm late. What the fuck are you going to do about it? That's right, nothing. Go get my fucking dinner ready." I wouldn't advise this unless she's turned on by sadism and verbal abuse, guys- or you might get a frying pan across the face.)

- FS

"Yeah, I'm late. What the fuck are you going to do about it? That's right, nothing. Go get my fucking dinner ready."

Yes I can see how that can be hot. But I'm afraid of taking it that far. Sometimes I feel like getting treated a little more harshly and, at other times, I feel like it's a downright insult to even be addressed in such ways. I dunno. I guess it's the feminist inside me. As much as I love the idea of being a sub, I hate the idea of becoming a secondary citizen (one time in the course of history for a black person...in America anyways...is enough thank you). It's so hard to keep my public life and personal life separate. On the one hand, I am treated like a cute little coy toy for a big powerful white man who ravages me constantly (with or without my consent) in attempt to help me discover my sexuality (MLKJ would have my head for that). On the other, I'm a hard ass bitch who hates being wrong or told what to do and the last thing she'd do is submit to anyone. Don't play chicken with me in a hallway because we will definitely knock each other over.

Sort of a contradiction and it's so hard to stay in one mind set. I'd get pissed if my Dom called me 'his bitch' but then I'd realize "WHAT? Oh yeah, I'm home and in the bedroom with my Dom. Not in the street." But by that time, the rage has washed over me and I've got to start the 'feel good' process all over again. Matter of fact, I think there is a thread on this. Being a bitch feminist (bitch and feminist are not Synonymous but I am a bitch of a feminist) who has trouble adjusting at times because they are so use to behaving a certain way in public. Does anyone have that link?

I would say it depends on the severity of the punishment. If the punishment is not severe then hypocrist in pursuit of domination is no vice. I do not think that the punishment for being late due to traffic should be severe, but lateness is still lateness and Master is entitled to punish. He expects you to serve him. However justified the failure it is still a failure. OTOH he is not there to meet your expectations, as you are there to meet his. He also may be looking for an excuse to punish you, rather than just giving you a spanking because he feels like it. But as I said, if the punishment is severe, you might want to politely say that in your opinion, the punishment was to severe for the offense. After all, not every offense deserves the same punishment.

usually this is the reason someone becomes a sub, they like the humiliation, the spankings, the whippings, the floggings (well, maybe I just do. I do things wrong on purpose to get a punishment often). Most of the time these things are usually worked out with communication...NO ONE IS PERFECT. It's usually what you both want out of the relationship, that's why it's so hard to find your match...

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Originally Posted by bambina

"Yeah, I'm late. What the fuck are you going to do about it? That's right, nothing. Go get my fucking dinner ready."

Yes I can see how that can be hot. But I'm afraid of taking it that far. Sometimes I feel like getting treated a little more harshly and, at other times, I feel like it's a downright insult to even be addressed in such ways. I dunno. I guess it's the feminist inside me. As much as I love the idea of being a sub, I hate the idea of becoming a secondary citizen (one time in the course of history for a black person...in America anyways...is enough thank you). It's so hard to keep my public life and personal life separate. On the one hand, I am treated like a cute little coy toy for a big powerful white man who ravages me constantly (with or without my consent) in attempt to help me discover my sexuality (MLKJ would have my head for that). On the other, I'm a hard ass bitch who hates being wrong or told what to do and the last thing she'd do is submit to anyone. Don't play chicken with me in a hallway because we will definitely knock each other over.

Sort of a contradiction and it's so hard to stay in one mind set. I'd get pissed if my Dom called me 'his bitch' but then I'd realize "WHAT? Oh yeah, I'm home and in the bedroom with my Dom. Not in the street." But by that time, the rage has washed over me and I've got to start the 'feel good' process all over again. Matter of fact, I think there is a thread on this. Being a bitch feminist (bitch and feminist are not Synonymous but I am a bitch of a feminist) who has trouble adjusting at times because they are so use to behaving a certain way in public. Does anyone have that link?

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lol this made me smile. It's me, in a sense. Though, it's not as true as it used to be. It's taken me a VERY long time to overcome the feelings that I was betraying my entire gender. I was raised by my mother, after her many days of burning bras and fighting for equality, some of that mentality rubbed off.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be equal. In fact on a very base level, I am equal. My Master does hold me to a higher standard than I would do for myself if I were without Him. But, you can have a D/s relationship without being afraid of overstepping that woman's rights line of thinking. Woman's suffrage will not end simply because some of us choose to be submissive.

In 1920, the year woman's suffrage was pasted into law, women left the marches and the picket lines and went home. Ya know what they did at home? They made dinner, and cleaned up the house, and made sure their husbands were comfortable, and the kids were cared for. At that time, women wanted to be heard. Plain and simple. They were just as intelligent as any man, and were able to make decisions of a political nature. They could go to college! Women were able to break free and do what made them happy. For another 25+ years, what made them happy was to remain home and tend to their husbands and family. Our great-great-grandmothers started this journey, and all they wanted was a voice.

What helped me more than anything in my submission was this question. Once I submit to this man, will I lose my voice; will he hear my words; will he respect my feelings? From there, I made my choices.

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Originally Posted by bambina

"Yeah, I'm late. What the fuck are you going to do about it? That's right, nothing. Go get my fucking dinner ready."

Yes I can see how that can be hot. But I'm afraid of taking it that far. Sometimes I feel like getting treated a little more harshly and, at other times, I feel like it's a downright insult to even be addressed in such ways. I dunno. I guess it's the feminist inside me. As much as I love the idea of being a sub, I hate the idea of becoming a secondary citizen (one time in the course of history for a black person...in America anyways...is enough thank you). It's so hard to keep my public life and personal life separate. On the one hand, I am treated like a cute little coy toy for a big powerful white man who ravages me constantly (with or without my consent) in attempt to help me discover my sexuality (MLKJ would have my head for that). On the other, I'm a hard ass bitch who hates being wrong or told what to do and the last thing she'd do is submit to anyone. Don't play chicken with me in a hallway because we will definitely knock each other over.

Sort of a contradiction and it's so hard to stay in one mind set. I'd get pissed if my Dom called me 'his bitch' but then I'd realize "WHAT? Oh yeah, I'm home and in the bedroom with my Dom. Not in the street." But by that time, the rage has washed over me and I've got to start the 'feel good' process all over again. Matter of fact, I think there is a thread on this. Being a bitch feminist (bitch and feminist are not Synonymous but I am a bitch of a feminist) who has trouble adjusting at times because they are so use to behaving a certain way in public. Does anyone have that link?

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Well, in my book, bdsm can easily work with a double standard. Right off the top of my head, my Master fucks other women- plenty of them. I am not allowed to fuck anyone but him, despite being bisexual and the fact that we could, if he chose, have threesomes. I am not allowed to leave the house without permission, and carrying a certificate of ownership... even then, I'm always with him and it occurs rarely. He goes out nearly daily. There are some things which just are different rules, at least with us. I love it!

Funny you should mention being called "bitch" or "his bitch", since as my username would suggest... that is exactly what he calls me, and refers to me as, at any time and in any place he chooses. Again, I love it.

Also, in case anyone gives a damn :) , no I'm not a feminist, in the least. Honestly, if I were to have feminist feelings crop up they would feel like a betrayal to myself, my Master, and my life. Please, please don't flame me for this! LOL

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Originally Posted by bambina

What do you do when you are in a D/s relationship where the Dom disciplines you when you do the wrong things (DD pretty much)...but then he turns around and does the wrong things as well? No body is perfect, but how can one sit back and take a spanking for arriving home late because of traffic when that persons Dom came home late 3 weeks earlier because of a late night at the office?

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For this particular topic of being late...I think either the dominant or the submissive needs to call if they are going to be late.

It's not about D/s in my opinion. If the dominant wants to punish the submissive for being late...well that is what the submissive signed up for - his rules. However, calling someone and letting them know everything is okay isn't about D/s, it's about being courteous. I was raised to always call if I am going to be late, or going to be out with friends etc. I still live at home and I always call my parents if I am going to be more than half an hour late. It's not about asking them if I can go places, or be late, it's about letting them know I am safe.

Sometimes my brother or other family doesn't call though, and that drives me crazy. It's very worrisome, so I can see where you are feeling pissed at that "do as a say, not as I do" law.

I think it's just something that needs to be talked about between the couple. For instance, I wouldn't mind that "do as I say, not as I do" with swearing and such. The dominant could swear all he wants, if he doesn't want me to swear I wouldn't. Because that is something I could live with. Now if he told me to call if I was going to be 5 minutes late and he never called after being hours late...I would have a problem with that. It's scary to think someone is going to be there, having them traveling and not knowing if they are safe or if they've gotten in an accident or whatever.



IMHO

I can say from personal experience that I won't tolerate it for long. For example, I was to call every night at 9 p.m. Half the time, he didn't answer when I called and didn't call me back. A few times when I called later because I had to put my son to bed, he jumped all over me, accusing me of being "out with the girls." He didn't like the tone of my voice after that when I told him that if I'd been "out with the girls" he wouldn't likely hear from me until 3 a.m., not 10 p.m. ...but the relationship didn't last very long because I felt like he was full of shit and a total waste of my time. "Do as I say, not as I do" doesn't work with me and neither does "because I said so." It never has. Ask my mom. Seriously.

I don't want or expect equality in my relationship, but I won't tolerate absolute nonsense in the form of being scolded or punished for something that is clearly not my fault and something that he doesn't put much effort into maintaining himself. It's insulting and disrespectful.

communication..is key! If you dont like it say something in a respectful way. If something doesnt change, or get better, then you can get semi-aggresive.
Communication communication communication!

Often times in my experience a dominant that doesnt lead by example isnt really a dominant at all. (believe you me Ive had a few)

Now that being said there is a certian leeway when it comes to being playful in the bedroom etc, the ole "youve been a naughty naughty girl havent you" thing followed by some fun is wholely different.

And as FRH and Hopper said I also dont expect "equality" far from it, but mutual respect is a must!! Our love and trust is built on it which means we think of the other person first before we think of ourselves.

We give each other our sacred devotion.

Sorry... but in my opinion this is a ridiculous rant because you are citing a situation with insufficient information... letting everyone make a presumption that you were severly and unfairly punished.

So we are left to presume there was zero sexual tension in the act. There was no playfulness. There was no lesson learned, no contrition, and no forgiveness. Just some unworthy double standard?

Yes, if all that is true, time to move on. Because you set the presumption in your readers that you feel abused... Are you sure you're submissive? The same scenario(s) written slightly differently by other subs beget comments of how hot the scenes sound...

And I don't agree at all with your perspective of hypocrisy. My old man told me a hundred times how he hated the smoking habit... that the tobacco addiction was stronger than he was and I'd do well to avoid falling into the trap. Where you would have apparently rejected that advice, I took it to heart, especially knowing what he endured and overcame as an actual second class citizen in WWII Europe.

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What I'm afraid of is being punished by a Dom who makes the same mistakes (or mistakes period) without being kept in check. Not that I want to discipline anybody. I'm strictly sub. But the discipline turns a little hollow when the enforcer turns out to be a hypocrite who is telling me not to curse ever but then curses a blue street in bed when he calls me a 'fucking whore' (for fun but still...).

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If you really think this too is hypocritical... as opposed to bed play... (as clearly you have neglected to tell him it's a limit...) leave.

Go find a nice fluffy dom you can control.

It sounds like you need to have a discussion about expectations and limits.

If I tell a submissive: "You need to be home by 9:00 every day, but I can stay out as late as I want", it isn't necessarily hypocrisy -- it depends on the relationship and expectations: you'll be where I expect, when I expect and you'll wait patiently for me to arrive at my leisure. It's a legitimate exercise of dominance, provided that's the expectation.

BDSM relationships do have different standards for the dominant and submissive. How often, for instance, is there equity in orgasms?

This is something you need to discuss with him to ensure the two of you are compatible and have the same expectations.

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Originally Posted by Ozme52

So we are left to presume there was zero sexual tension in the act. There was no playfulness. There was no lesson learned, no contrition, and no forgiveness. Just some unworthy double standard?

.. Are you sure you're submissive? The same scenario(s) written slightly differently by other subs beget comments of how hot the scenes sound...

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I do not see what that proves. All subs are different, and we all have things that work for us, and things that for some individual reason or other doesn't.
Or do you have set ideas of what a sub is, since you see fit to question her on this?

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If you really think this too is hypocritical... as opposed to bed play... (as clearly you have neglected to tell him it's a limit...) leave.

Go find a nice fluffy dom you can control.

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I agree that this is a communication problem, as others have said. But often a person wants to discuss a certain issue before taking it further, which I think is a good idea and one of the things this place is good for.

Which IMO should be possible without running into comments as that last one you made.

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Originally Posted by thir

I do not see what that proves. All subs are different, and we all have things that work for us, and things that for some individual reason or other doesn't.
Or do you have set ideas of what a sub is, since you see fit to question her on this?

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Hardly, everyone is unique and should be treated so. So is every relationship unique.

I question her on this because it's a rant. Every dominant sets rules. Every sub wants them. (yes there are exceptions... but that's not the point)

Painting us as hypocrites is ridiculous. If she had said... "Oh, my dom doesn't let me cum but doesn't restrict himself too... He's such a hypocrite!" don't you think everyone would have laughed their asses off?

It's just too easy to generate this kind of "Oh woe is me" bandwagon that everyone gets to hop onto.

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I agree that this is a communication problem, as others have said. But often a person wants to discuss a certain issue before taking it further, which I think is a good idea and one of the things this place is good for.

Which IMO should be possible without running into comments as that last one you made.

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I would normally agree, except it wasn't a discussion... You go back, reread her escalating responses.

Reread mine. I said if it was indeed a cold and heartless punishment, then she is being abused and should end it... but that if every act on his part is an act of hypocrisy, then what exactly does she think dominance and submission is?

My Master and I talked about this a lot before he was my Master and we only talked about these things in theory. He always said, he wouldn't want to be a 24/7 Master because he didn't want to be perfect all the time.

He wouldn't punish me for being late except if I was late in slave-state. In our everyday life he'd maybe look at me strictly or tease etc. but I only get punished as his sub when I know I am being his sub right now and not his best friend/his lover/his girlfriend.

He was late once - badly late when he was supposed to get me from the ferry in the middle of the night. And he fell asleep - grr! Of course I was angry - or sad maybe. And a girl/sub has her own ways of punishing her man - pouting, showing how cold you were, and make him feel guilty - of course minus the bitchy ;).

But really, I get what you're saying. If one claims 100% control and expects you to be perfect or else - he'd better start with being perfect. Its a difficult subject to bring up though.

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Originally Posted by bambina

What do you do when you are in a D/s relationship where the Dom disciplines you when you do the wrong things (DD pretty much)...but then he turns around and does the wrong things as well? No body is perfect, but how can one sit back and take a spanking for arriving home late because of traffic when that persons Dom came home late 3 weeks earlier because of a late night at the office? It's just that I grew up in a household where my father did everything right. I'm serious. The man hardly made any mistakes. The only thing I could say he is guilty of is procrastination. He hasn't cleaned the basement in years. But that's HIS area anyway. Only HE goes down there. It's allowed to be a little cluttered. But, when it came to other people, he was always punctual. He is the closest thing to perfection pretty much. So I never ever had an issue being scolded by him because he always followed his own advice and teachings. If I were, say, under the tutelage of a parent who got on me about drugs and scolded me for drinking but went through 6 packs of cigarettes a day, I'd have a beer bottle in my hand as I write this. Hypocrisy is one thing I cannot stand, especially from someone in charge of the way I do things. How am I supposed to model after that? What I'm afraid of is being punished by a Dom who makes the same mistakes (or mistakes period) without being kept in check. Not that I want to discipline anybody. I'm strictly sub. But the discipline turns a little hollow when the enforcer turns out to be a hypocrite who is telling me not to curse ever but then curses a blue street in bed when he calls me a 'fucking whore' (for fun but still...). No one's perfect. But how does one take instruction from someone who pretty much makes the same mistakes as you? Better still, how can I stop from rebelling from this person (like the example I gave you with the drinking)? Because I honestly see myself saying "No I will not go over your lap for a spanking. Didn't you just do [fill-in-the-blank] last weekend?"

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when i was with my first Master, i always had to arrive on time when we had a prearranged meeting, and many times i would be tasked to do things like, if we were meeting for lunch, i was told to find a table by the garden and order a certain drink for Him, which would be waiting for Him upon His arrival. He arrived 20 minutes late and i could tell by the look in His eyes that He was wondering how i would handle that, and i had already had the drink taken back and a new one ordered, since He was late. and i stood up and kissed Him and welcomed Him, and He was very pleased with me. i didn't feel annoyed; just a little anxious, and then i saw Him there and it was all right. i certainly never thought He was a hypocrite and never denied Him because i was angry at Him or felt He should conduct Himself as i do. i am not sure that Doms are role models for submisisves - i see them as mentors and guides and teachers but not role models. i think when you have a 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander' mindset, you are placing yourself on an equal footing with your Dom, which is incorrect...your Dom is above you and you are happily beneath Him. this is not to say you are a doormat - far from it. i don't think any Dom wants a girl who has that complete lack of self-esteem. but He does want a girl who knows her place, and respects Him in all things, and He will reward her generously with bliss...