Protocol?

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Originally Posted by DowntownAmber

Goodness, I take a few days off from being online and the thread explodes! *hehehe*

Sir Russell: I would love to meet you for coffee at the airport. I'll email you with my layover details as soon as I change my flight arrangements.

Oz: though my submission belongs solely to one man, I'm gonna go ahead and guess you'll likely make J-Go AND me blush at some point... I have a sneaking suspicion you just kinda' have that can-make-anyone-blush-in-public type of personality... ;)

Thrall: The same rules of engagement apply for Doms or subs, men or women I would suspect. The world is full of fruitcakes, be prepared. Each situation is different, of course, and the "rules" change based on what type of interaction you've had with the person you're meeting, but I know you have both good sense and good intuition and will handle the situation with healthy doses of both.

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Well, I for one look forward to hearing an update on the coffee visit hun ;) :D

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Originally Posted by DowntownAmber

Thrall: The same rules of engagement apply for Doms or subs, men or women I would suspect. The world is full of fruitcakes, be prepared. Each situation is different, of course, and the "rules" change based on what type of interaction you've had with the person you're meeting, but I know you have both good sense and good intuition and will handle the situation with healthy doses of both.

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I know ...and agree. Still and all though i feel more relaxed about the "rules" with women and subs....

And as to those fruitcakes you mentioned.....LMAO....are they the fabled ones that last forever and just keep getting passed around??????

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Originally Posted by thrall

I know ...and agree. Still and all though i feel more relaxed about the "rules" with women and subs....

And as to those fruitcakes you mentioned.....LMAO....are they the fabled ones that last forever and just keep getting passed around??????

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Yes, those ARE the fabled fruitcakes!! Beware!! *giggles uncontrollably*

Alright so now that we have covered the issue of fruitcakes......i have a few questions about them....

What about nuts....some fruitcakes come with nuts???? Are they big nuts or small ones?? Are they as soaked in liquor as reported??....and more importantly.......is it a hard fruitcake or soft one???


Do i need to be more careful of the fruitcake...or the nuts???


all good questions to ponder...........lmao.........*wink*

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Originally Posted by Ozme52

As am I J-Go.

Amber was getting so much advice to be "wary" that I felt compelled to actually answer her question as to how to act.

As far as the final thought was put, as I said... if appropriate.

The lady who runs our munch once said she never blushes.
Now she blushes uncontrollably when I look at her and raise an eyebrow.
Nothing that I did to her, nothing that I said to her outside of the concept of blushing for me in public... and now she can't help herself... Nothing more, but it gives me pleasure to have that control... and she found she likes the attention. You never know what falls into the realm of appropriate. :cool:

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Am I the only one who finds this incredibly disrespectful to both the young lady and her Dom?

Because I find such blatant disregard for the other Dom's prerogative distasteful in the extreme.

Whippett

Did you read his first post, if you did then taken in context I don't think he insulted anyone or ask her to become his sub. As far as how she reacts to him is her business. Since the three of them have plans to meet in summer I don't think there is a problem. I am sure they will all be respectful to each other.

Ask yourself why any Dom that has given public coaching on how to be safe when meeting a Dom for the first time is suddenly a villian. I personally hope to meet both Oz and his lovely lady some day soon and I will expect my lady to be respectful and can't even picture his being anything else.

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Originally Posted by Sir_Russell

again tojo you show us more of you then Oz and me. So by your doubts that I am as I seem you seem to be saying that you aren't who you claim to be since after all we all lie here.

Can I say that you personally disgust me and have for a very long time. Your married to a none sub and have girls everywhere that you deeply care for. That too says beware of me and beware of my advise because I see this as just an online game....

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Sir Russell, please it's not a good form to paraphrase anyone here. It's confusing and often misleading.

And, no, you may not say that. No member here has the right to judge or criticize any other member's lifestyle or way of life.

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Originally Posted by Sir_Russell

Whippett

Did you read his first post, if you did then taken in context I don't think he insulted anyone or ask her to become his sub. As far as how she reacts to him is her business. Since the three of them have plans to meet in summer I don't think there is a problem. I am sure they will all be respectful to each other.

Ask yourself why any Dom that has given public coaching on how to be safe when meeting a Dom for the first time is suddenly a villian. I personally hope to meet both Oz and his lovely lady some day soon and I will expect my lady to be respectful and can't even picture his being anything else.

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I think you missed what I quoted Russell - Oz specifically talks about counting coup on a woman who organizes the munches in his area. There is no indication she is his submissive - he just likes to make her blush to prove he can - and has conditioned her to respond automatically from the sound of it.

Playing mental games that leave your own sub uneasy or humiliated is one thing - doing so to another's sub is extremely disrespectful, and if it were done to my sub - I would have a serious issue with the dominant who had done so - and a public apology that made the dom look like the jerk he had been in doing that stunt would only be part of it. And from Oz's posting - it is clear that the woman he is humiliating is NOT his submissive.

I dislike doms who count coup for the sake of doing so - and find it difficult to respect them since I consider what they do akin to harrasment

A thought from a sub who's not conversant in the "Dom rules"...so I'm sure some will ignore me.

Just because a woman is submissive doesn't mean she stops being a woman. Doesn't mean she stops enjoying a little bit of attention and admiration from men. I expect if Oz thought this was going to be a problem for either her or her Dom, if she has one, he'd not have done it. I, personally, have never seen him be disrespectful here or in real life.

And I believe, in the post to Amber, there was a caveat - "if appropriate". Not "if I feel like it, if I want you to, etc." - the word was 'appropriate'.

Vocabulary is a wonderful thing.

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Originally Posted by DowntownAmber

Oz: though my submission belongs solely to one man,

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Of course. I never imagined otherwise.

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I'm gonna go ahead and guess you'll likely make J-Go AND me blush at some point...

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Certainly not on purpose, I would never presume to do so to J-Go, nor would I do so to you lest it was clear you were receptive to a little flirting. And I know that you wouldn't if J-Go objected. I know you know I never meant to imply otherwise.

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I have a sneaking suspicion you just kinda' have that can-make-anyone-blush-in-public type of personality... ;)

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Well... if you're challenging me... sure. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Whippett

Am I the only one who finds this incredibly disrespectful to both the young lady and her Dom?

Because I find such blatant disregard for the other Dom's prerogative distasteful in the extreme.

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Originally Posted by Whippett

I think you missed what I quoted Russell - Oz specifically talks about counting coup on a woman who organizes the munches in his area. There is no indication she is his submissive - he just likes to make her blush to prove he can - and has conditioned her to respond automatically from the sound of it.

Playing mental games that leave your own sub uneasy or humiliated is one thing - doing so to another's sub is extremely disrespectful, and if it were done to my sub - I would have a serious issue with the dominant who had done so - and a public apology that made the dom look like the jerk he had been in doing that stunt would only be part of it. And from Oz's posting - it is clear that the woman he is humiliating is NOT his submissive.

I dislike doms who count coup for the sake of doing so - and find it difficult to respect them since I consider what they do akin to harrasment

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That's a hell of a leap.
You assume she's a submissive.
You assume she belongs to someone else.
You assume she wasn't flirting.
You assume I imposed myself on her unwillingly.

And there's a hell of a large difference between being embarassed and being humiliated.

Did you not see where I said she likes the attention?
Do you understand the concept of flirting?
Do you understand the concept of appropriate?
How many times do I have to say that? "When appropriate."

Counting coup? I guess that must be what you do, to presume that's what I do.

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Originally Posted by jeanne

Just because a woman is submissive doesn't mean she stops being a woman. Doesn't mean she stops enjoying a little bit of attention and admiration from men.

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Exactly!

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Originally Posted by Whippett

...but consider myself a fluffy pink high maintenance Dom as well - lol.

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Out of context and from an unrelated thread... but I just found this...

...and it speaks to a huge difference between our approach to D/s.

I call your approach sub-centric.
My approach is dom-centric.

There's room for both and neither is abusive.

I've just read through this thread.

Ohhhhhhhhh - it's good to be back at the Library. :cool:

Seriously, though - it's wonderful to know this little community extends beyond the monitor and allows for r/l interaction.

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Originally Posted by Tojo

Now Oz- you've always come across as someone who listens to the other side of an argument & usually talks sense. Allow me to clarify my previous post.




Now, Amber is meeting someone who identifies as a Dom- someone who has never dommed her from what I can gather from her original post. From what you're saying, all subs should defer to any guy who says 'I'm a Dom?'

So if I come on this forum & say I'm 'Regent Tojo' does that mean that when I met Aussiegirl, she should have addressed me as such?

My point is that until a Dom proves that he deserves respect- in person, they're just a guy who says 'I'm a Dom.'

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Well, that's part of the problem with the language. I wrote "formal name" and you apparently thought I meant "entitlement".

But you don't call your boss (my example) "Bob" unless he invited you to do so. You use terms like Mr. Bosses-name, or sir. Likewise, if your name is Regent Tojo, then that may well be the best thing to call you... certainly not "master" or "lord" which are "protocol" forms of address. If you invite her to call you Tojo, or master for that matter, she still has the option to decline and address you formally, I guess in this case, as Regent Tojo. ;)

As far as deserving respect is concerned, everyone deserves a modicum of respect, (dom, sub, or vanilla,) until they prove they don't deserve it. I've always found that to be a better approach to dealing with people. And it appears to me, so does amber, as she was concerned about protocol.

Perhaps my explanation was too brief.

Well, well, well….this has gotten interesting to say the least. Can I just re-establish that I am the Dom here…If I had a problem with Amber meeting Sir Russell, or anyone for that matter I can assure you it would not happen.
I am not, nor have I been insulted by anyone or anything that has been posted on this thread. Oz from one flirt to another…it’s OK, if I think you or anyone has crossed the line I’ll let you know, trust me on this…still looking forward to meeting you! Sir Russell the fact that you are hanging in here on this thread says a great deal so just for clarification, I completely trust Amber, you and your integrity in this meeting. If you have any questions or would simply like to reach out to me as her Dom a simple PM would be fine with me.
As for everyone’s advice thank you. I do think it’s time to put this thread to bed however as the advice has been taken, permission granted (encouraged actually) and the meeting set. Let’s review…the advice has been 1) meet in a public place, I think an airport qualifies. 2) call your Dom when you meet, I look forward to meeting Sir Russell as well albeit over the phone. 3) have an escape plan in case things get weird, we have that. All good advice, all taken and implemented. Again thank you. Now can we all stop hovering around my sub and let me get back to spanking her?...Thank you

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Originally Posted by J-Go

Well, well, well….this has gotten interesting to say the least. Can I just re-establish that I am the Dom here…If I had a problem with Amber meeting Sir Russell, or anyone for that matter I can assure you it would not happen.
I am not, nor have I been insulted by anyone or anything that has been posted on this thread. Oz from one flirt to another…it’s OK, if I think you or anyone has crossed the line I’ll let you know, trust me on this…still looking forward to meeting you! Sir Russell the fact that you are hanging in here on this thread says a great deal so just for clarification, I completely trust Amber, you and your integrity in this meeting. If you have any questions or would simply like to reach out to me as her Dom a simple PM would be fine with me.
As for everyone’s advice thank you. I do think it’s time to put this thread to bed however as the advice has been taken, permission granted (encouraged actually) and the meeting set. Let’s review…the advice has been 1) meet in a public place, I think an airport qualifies. 2) call your Dom when you meet, I look forward to meeting Sir Russell as well albeit over the phone. 3) have an escape plan in case things get weird, we have that. All good advice, all taken and implemented. Again thank you. Now can we all stop hovering around my sub and let me get back to spanking her?...Thank you

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*claps* as always J-Go, well said :)

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Originally Posted by thrall

An interesting thought........


How come i don't feel the need to take such precautions with other subs? Or just women for that matter......Domme or sub.

Should we be taking these very same precautions with everyone on line??...Or is it just you Dom's???.......lol. Is the vouch safe of someone you trust enough??

I may be naive about this one but for me it is enough. Im going be gallivanting around with a girl I've never met and .........im going to have the greatest time in the world!

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Honestly Thrall, in my opinion you should do the same precautions wiht anyone you meet for the first time, especially on line, be them male/female, Dom or sub.

That being said... do I? ummmmmmmm... no. Just becasue it doesn't cross my mind too.

Also, the Doms/men should be taking the EXACT same precautions. I may be a female but that doesn't mean I can't still drug them without their knowledge, lure them somewhere, etc. I could follow them from the restaurant, etc. Heck my "safe" call could even be finalizing details of having help in doing them in. How are they to know or stay safe?

It only makes sense. Now if the big bad Doms didn't think they were invincible most of the time and do it is an entirely different challenge.... *laughs*

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Originally Posted by Ozme52

That's a hell of a leap.
You assume she's a submissive.
You assume she belongs to someone else.
You assume she wasn't flirting.
You assume I imposed myself on her unwillingly.

And there's a hell of a large difference between being embarassed and being humiliated.

Did you not see where I said she likes the attention?
Do you understand the concept of flirting?
Do you understand the concept of appropriate?
How many times do I have to say that? "When appropriate."

Counting coup? I guess that must be what you do, to presume that's what I do.

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you make presumptions yourself Ozme. Yes, I saw all those points you made - and what rang clearest was your pride in seizing control over the person in question in some small way - and that is counting coup.

It is clear you enjoy counting coup. It appears in a good many of your posts as a common theme. The fact I recognize it does not, however, mean I do it myself.

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Originally Posted by Whippett

you make presumptions yourself Ozme. Yes, I saw all those points you made - and what rang clearest was your pride in seizing control over the person in question in some small way - and that is counting coup.

It is clear you enjoy counting coup. It appears in a good many of your posts as a common theme. The fact I recognize it does not, however, mean I do it myself.

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OK... so you two don't Dom in the same fashion. Duly noted. Everyone can make their own judgments and opinions about either/both of you. So... can the pissing match end now? (I would much prefer to buy tickets to the next show about spanking as JGlo suggested! :D)

Everyone is free to not follow this thread if they wish. Why do some not like a spirited debate? Isn't that what forums such as this are for - to present differing views?

Personally I enjoy reading threads like this much more then some others here. You get different philosophies along with other thoughts and ideas. I would only suggest that personal attacks, such as those above, be minimized and flaming rules be invoked.

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Originally Posted by Warbaby1943

Everyone is free to not follow this thread if they wish. Why do some not like a spirited debate?

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Hmmmmmmm if I answer that then I could potentially be in a pissing match, since I doubt either of us are going to change our opinions... ;) :D

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Originally Posted by just_annie

Hmmmmmmm if I answer that then I could potentially be in a pissing match, since I doubt either of us are going to change our opinions... ;) :D

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You're right.

This is my first time posting here. I am very impressed by what I've seen. My work often takes me to all points elsewhere, and my response to DowntownAmber's original question would have been entirely different, but I appreciate the opportunity to observe your various points of view.

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Originally Posted by Tojo

Well seeing as how we don't seem to want this thread to die as I'd hoped....

Oh & btw mods- what happened to Cool Luke's Hand's second post? Is it OK for Russell to say I 'personally disgust him' but not for Luke to say as he pleases? Please explain.

Now Oz- you've always come across as someone who listens to the other side of an argument & usually talks sense. Allow me to clarify my previous post.




Now, Amber is meeting someone who identifies as a Dom- someone who has never dommed her from what I can gather from her original post. From what you're saying, all subs should defer to any guy who says 'I'm a Dom?'

So if I come on this forum & say I'm 'Regent Tojo' does that mean that when I met Aussiegirl, she should have addressed me as such?

My point is that until a Dom proves that he deserves respect- in person, they're just a guy who says 'I'm a Dom.'

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Unfortunately, Cool Luke's Hand has been a bit of loaded gun ever since he arrived here, with several of his posts having to be edited and warnings issued. His post on this thread, plus another extremely scathing tirade on another has been removed along with his membership--he's been banned.

You and Sir Russell are intelligent men and valued members of this site. I know you're also both very well liked and respected and, generally, have a lot of good things to offer. I believe this is the reason that you've both been give a certain amount of latitude at times.

Now please, may we get back to Amber's original question and discussion, which I was actually finding rather interesting.

:)

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Originally Posted by Warbaby1943

Everyone is free to not follow this thread if they wish. Why do some not like a spirited debate? Isn't that what forums such as this are for - to present differing views?

Personally I enjoy reading threads like this much more then some others here. You get different philosophies along with other thoughts and ideas. I would only suggest that personal attacks, such as those above, be minimized and flaming rules be invoked.

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I agree to an extent Warbaby - but the 'debate' isn't in form with the OP's question - If a debate is wanted, then that thread should be done aside and apart from this one, no? ;)

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Originally Posted by mastersgem

I agree to an extent Warbaby - but the 'debate' isn't in form with the OP's question - If a debate is wanted, then that thread should be done aside and apart from this one, no? ;)

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gem, there's often a fine line between "debate" and "discussion", let's not debate or discuss the diferences here. ;)

My sub and I, long before she agreed to be my sub, agreed to not go anywhere without each other. I cannot fathom her leaving our home to meet someone without me--with miles of distance between us--or my agreement to such a scenario. I know that most of the world is a lot more comfortable with the concept, but I would never set her up to meet someone w/o me. And she would not either. But, we are old souls, and we are a little different than most. What a situation to put her in! Surely she would find some forum for advice. Thankfully, the advice that (most) of you have provided has been well-intentioned. However, We would simply feel that a person in a devoted (or Dom/sub) relationship would never allow this type of meeting to occur. Please do not misunderstand, there is no judgement implied here--I just cannot comprehend how this type of meeting would be appropriate or justified.

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Originally Posted by Mr.FixIt

My sub and I, long before she agreed to be my sub, agreed to not go anywhere without each other. I cannot fathom her leaving our home to meet someone without me--with miles of distance between us--or my agreement to such a scenario. I know that most of the world is a lot more comfortable with the concept, but I would never set her up to meet someone w/o me. And she would not either. But, we are old souls, and we are a little different than most. What a situation to put her in! Surely she would find some forum for advice. Thankfully, the advice that (most) of you have provided has been well-intentioned. However, We would simply feel that a person in a devoted (or Dom/sub) relationship would never allow this type of meeting to occur. Please do not misunderstand, there is no judgement implied here--I just cannot comprehend how this type of meeting would be appropriate or justified.

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I think that is a very interesting angle that no one has brought up yet. I understand that there is no judgement intended, and I don't have any either, but it is an important point to make.

If I wanted to meet another submissive I am pretty sure Master would easily find it suitable to grant permission. However, meeting a Dom would be a different story. I just yelled down the hallway at him "If I was travelling and wanted to meet a Dom, would you let me?" He replied "It depends... now I am going to bed," so we will have to discuss this one further tomorrow.

If it was someone that he knew personally, then perhaps. I am not sure if he would be willing to send me to meet a stranger.

Food for thought, definitely.

And welcome to the Forums, Mr. Fix It.

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Originally Posted by just_annie

Honestly Thrall, in my opinion you should do the same precautions wiht anyone you meet for the first time, especially on line, be them male/female, Dom or sub.

That being said... do I? ummmmmmmm... no. Just becasue it doesn't cross my mind too.

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Yes i understand that.....i will usually meet for time meet in a public place....but with a sub i dont feel the need to do all the safe call thing..... And as to protocol of how to act.....i treat them as i would anyone else. I treat them with friendly casual respect and open honest friendship.....

But that being said.....the subs that i am going to meet soon i just plain trust 100% sight unseen.....(hugs to both of you)

Thanks Alex- I accept that.

Oz- yeah, we're getting lost in the language here! :32:

Answer this question please- which does actually relate to Amber's original post.

Suppose jane, who calls herself a sub, meets Master Jack, who calls himself a Dom.

They've never met face to face, & only know each other from a forum (much like this one)

Do you believe jane should call him 'Master Jack' which is how he identifies on the forum, or should she call him Jason- which is the name his mother gave him & his real name?

Secondly, should she treat him with more respect than she'd treat anyone else, for the simple reason that he's said 'I'm a Dom.'

I am not Oz (if you couldn't tell....) but you pose interesting questions Tojo, so I am going to butt in.

If I am meeting someone in person, I am looking to meet the real person, and not their online persona. I would expect to call them by their given name (and would certainly expect to be provided with their given name) until I deemed it appropriate to call them something different. I am not implying that anyone is misrepresenting themselves online, but we all have an online persona. For example....

<------ This is not my ass. It is just a great picture. I have been honest about that to the umpteen people who have PM'd me to ask.

lily is not my real name.

Although BDSM is an important aspect of my life, it is not the only thing. If you are meeting me in person I expect you to be interested in all of me, not just "lily with the hot avatar" and as such would refer to me by my real name.

And no, nobody deserves more respect just because they state they are a Dom. Even if I know for a fact that they are a Dom I do not respect them any more than I would my father, my brother, or a close friend. The only person who is granted additional respect is my Master, and that is something he proved he deserves.

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Originally Posted by lily27

<------ This is not my ass. It is just a great picture. I have been honest about that to the umpteen people who have PM'd me to ask.

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Awh! I'm disappointed, Lily. I thought that was your bum :D

Didn't Amber contact Him? Or shall I say him - since in this context, he's not her Dom? I realize - at first - she was going with her Dom and then that changed.

Isn't this meeting as friends? No potential play date? I would (with permission) welcome the opportunity to meet friends I've come to know here on the board - Doms, subs, whatever the label. Of course, precautions are always good! However, we do get to know each other fairly well through this forum.

A little lunch, a cup of coffee and the opportunity to connect with a forum friend. Sounds kinda cool.

hmmmmmm, I just realized the proof in mine and ambers case will be in the meeting. Afterwards she can answer if I am as I appear to be and if I am a risk to subbies everywhere. LOL, this still won't prove that meeting anyone for the first time is safe or not.

Oh as an aside here I have given J-Go my full name driver's license # current address, new address, current phone # and new phone #. To cross reference a thread on trust I guess I fall into I get a feel for who I can trust and then I do till there is proof that it was a mistake.

I also agree that all that info should indeed be given to both Dom and sub that are meeting for an intro that may lead to future a future session. Sadly for me that isn't going to happen and isn't the reason for this meet at all.

I think I have found kindred spirits in both amber and J-Go and will come away from our meetings with new wonderful friends.

Oh I as a geezer thank all of you that assumed I would be able to mmmmm seduce the lovely intelligent amber but her own code of honor would never allow that.

erased -premature post-u-lation

It's not a big deal, it happens to most of us, Warbaby!

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Originally Posted by Warbaby1943

erased -premature post-u-lation

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*giggles madly* that's great! haha

*whistles innocently*

psssssssssst -there is a thread for you boys to go play in over there ----------->(General Talk) hehehe

How about we leave Amber's thread on her topic and put the discussion of who's who in the Dom world to the new topic I've provided hmmmmm?

I for one would enjoy continuing to watch and learn, just not at this post's expense ;)

~wiggles on out~

I am very much looking forward to penning the follow-up to this thread... If this simple little post could get so much attention, I can't imagine the interest that will be paid to the actual meeting!

Of course, I will probably end up saying that Sir Russell is a really nice guy and we had a great conversation and he didn't try to mollest me in baggage claim so no one will really care cuz where's the controversy in that??

Then we'll meet Oz and J and I will likely post we had a great time with him too and laughed until someone shot beer out their nose and not even once did Oz grab me by the hair and try to steal me away on the back of his bike.

Hmmm, normal adult interaction there too, dammit! Where's the fun in that??

*giggles uncontrollably and wanders off*