i saw this on another site and thought that i would try it here. What do you think of the silent treatment as used for punishment.. Do you find it effective?
i saw this on another site and thought that i would try it here. What do you think of the silent treatment as used for punishment.. Do you find it effective?
I think it is one of the worst possible ideas. It may be an effective threat, but if it is carried out, it hurts terribly. To deliberately cut off contact is only going to make re-establishing it more difficult.
A variant on this, that of cutting a sub off from their friends or family, was also proposed to me once. I hated the idea of that even more; there are times when I am not available to talk to, and what happens if something big in their life happens? If someone they are close to is injured or passes away, or they recieve a long-awaited promotion at work or hear of a loved one getting engaged, married, or having a child? It is bad enough to be punished, let alone to redouble it due to unforeseen circumstances.
What if the same happens to the other person and they want to reach out to the submissive for company or celebration? Why punish someone else in addition to the submissive?
Admittedly I am not big on the idea of punishment; I find other techniques to be more effective and enjoyable, both for me and my partner. Personally, playing "no talkies" strikes me as juvenile. Your mileage may vary; if it works for others in their relationships, that is fine. It is simply not for me.
I find it to be pretty effective. Just the threat of it is enough to correct my behavior. Not being able to communicate or get a response for a period of time is one of the worst possible punishments.
That's a different issue. The silent treatment generally means refusing to speak to the sub for a specific amount of time in punishment for a transgression, rather than refusing the sub access to others (other than her dominant of course).Quote:
Originally Posted by ppr128
Refusing to speak to the sub for a specific time is usually effective as a punishment, lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by singletaillover
This of course depends upon what context your speaking in..online vs real life etc as well as what specifically you mean by the "silent treatment".
Like are you talking about a specified period of time that is explained to the submissive before hand...or your partner ceasing all forms of communication out of the blue.
As a punnishment...online... shrugs whatever...if they think its is a punnishment to not speak to me thats their thing...just dont expect me to speak to them when they decide to re-establish contact.
In real life? Well thats a whole different animal...are we dating, just seeing each other for fun on the weekends with no strings attached, or in a commited relationship where we cohabitate?
Never online... that provides the dominant no control and is therefore not a punishment but an abandonment. Seems counter to what should be the dominant's intent. If you're at that point (see next paragraph,) you might as well end the relationship.
In a face-to-face relationship, I would reserve silence as a last resort. And I would make it clear that the submissive has forced me to be silent with her because it is clear that my words (and actions) have had no effect on her behavior. It should also be made clear, (if one follows my perception of this path,) that this is a last resort and if this enforced introspection also fails, she has failed in being capable of being my submissive.
Willfull disobedience will not be tolerated.
I don't really understand how the silent treatment differs online vs real life.
If the punishment is established beforehand as it should be, and then how can it be such a detrimental thing to be ignored for a period of time while online?
Aside from that, I don't honestly know though if that would be a good punishment or not. It really depends on the couple in general, and how they choose to deal with things.
If the punishment hits home and is effective, then maybe it's not a bad thing.
I for one would probably choose that over the punishment I'm in for shortly.
That is the wonderful thing about punishments though, they are there to correct something. And punishments aren't meant to be easy, or they end up becoming a play session, which defeats the purpose.
First, it has long been established to me by my friends and family and co-workers that I am not capable of not talking. By trying to not talk for any length of time, I'd just be punishing myself. I'd really rather lecture him for half an hour, or an hour, about what he did wrong, until I'm sure that it's clear in his head.
And in the very rare cases of multiple transgressions on the same issue, I find my last resort to usually be sex denial. And it always works. The lack of physical contact to me is a far more appropriate punishment; but then, I greatly dislike any sort of mind/emotion games. I know some people love that, so I can only speak for myself, but I see it as part of my responsibility that I am always there to provide emotional and mental support for my sub, and therefore I would not cut off any type of communication between us.
It works on the principle that a sub misbehaves in order to get attention. To a sub, attention usually means 'play' and to many subs the common BDSM punishments (whippings and so on) are not punishment at all but fun things that they enjoy. So, by punishing bad behavior with something they enjoy you are more or less ensuring that this bad behaviour will continue.
So, by removing attention, you are discouraging the behaviour you want to correct instead of reinforcing it. Just as with children in a classroom - the kid who plays up often does it for attention so instead of giving that attention you send them out of the room to cool off (usually 5 minutes is enough). They are not getting attention so they stop playing up.
I would not say that it needs to be complete silent treatment. Not at all. More that it needs to be complete 'no play'. You can talk to them about other things - have they done the dishes, how was their day and so on - but you do not interact with them in a BDSM context. You cancel any plans you may have had to play, you don't threaten them with any BDSM style punishments. You effectively withdraw from the lifestyle for a short time.
You can also impose punishments that are tedious and boring as opposed to the exciting and interesting ones. For example, sitting or kneeling in the corner facing the wall, writing lines, cleaning something really hard to clean (the old army cliche of using a toothbrush to clean the toilet...)
All of these ensure that there is still contact between sub and Dom but it is not exciting and interesting for the sub - in other words it is an effective deterrent without risking the relationship.
i actually think of it as pretty fucked up. i wouldnt do this to someone, unless it was for a predetermined time. some people just stop talking, and that leads to confusion and fear, and is not conducive to a good relationship.
i would have to agree, to me it would feel as abandonment. it would create desperation maybe and possibly resentment. i feel submission to Him as a whole is a choice even though the specific acts of submission are not beyond limits and such. The silent treatment for me would create a desperation to submit rather than the gift of it. i feel that i would have to say His domination of me is a gift as well, if i refused to submit to the point where this was necessary than as Ozome said maybe i have revoked it. ( sorry not good at the multiple quote thing)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisais mine
I've found that the "silent treatment" works when it is, as previously mentioned, for a predetermined time and when the sub is aware that it will come to an end (and when it will come to an end) -- for example, putting a sub in "time-out" (as was also mentioned) is a good way to not grace him/her with Your company and attention and yet not frighten the crap out of him/her by abruptly ceasing to speak or acting angry or otherwise cold.
What makes the "time-out" so effective for Myself and My Pet (or so I've found) is that I make her sit in a corner, turn off her wheelchair so she can't move, and face the wall without speaking or interacting with Me. I then also sit silently on the couch or somewhere nearby -- close enough that she is aware of My presence and of the fact that I'm doing nothing but watching her, but far enough away or behind her that she can't communicate with Me, even with her eyes. She says this is the "worst feeling" because she feels that it is a punishment for Me as well as for her, since I do nothing and basically stare at the wall with her. Were I to, for example, play Xbox or do some other activity I think it would be less effective than the dead silence that falls over the house when she's in "time-out".
My understanding of the term 'silent treatment as a punishment,' is that whether it be online or real life it will be for a pre-determined length of time, which will be communicated to the sub by the Dominant, along with the reason for the punishment. It would not be abandonment to my mind, as it is a result of something the sub has done and he/she would know that.
If a relationship is important to the sub removal of communication from the Dominant online would be something a sub would find unpleasant, and would focus his or her mind on the infraction, and certainly would make them think twice about committing the same offence again.
In a real time relationship the silent treatment would work in a similar way.
So I guess the answer is for me I would hate the silent treatment, and I feel it's an effective punishment.
maybe i have an overdeveloped sense of abandonment to begin with when it comes to Him anyways, but i am not so sure what it is that would cause Him to do this. W/we have had vanilla arguments that have led to His roaring off on His bike, but mainly its about preserving the relationship and not saying a hurtful thing. the worst thing i ever did was tell Him a lie under the influence of sleep meds about masturbating and He punished me by taking my collar away from me and not allowing any form of submissive behavior. that nipped it all right there. outside of silly bratty behavior that is playful, lesson learned. i learned that i valued His domination over me as well as my submission to Him. silence wouldn't have taught me as much as that did. just my limited experience is that silence always feels like shutting someone out, its meant to. for some of us thats huge.
That is you, 13'sbadkitty. Punishment must not only fit the crime, it must also fit the submissive. With the sort of mind-set you have, 13'sbadkitty, the silent treatment would not work, obviously, and I presume your dominant would recognise that, and not use the silent treatment.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13'sbadkitty
In a similar vein, spanking someone who loves being spanked in punishment is, in my opinion, daft. In that case, it may reinforce the bad behaviour.
Precisely!Quote:
Originally Posted by miners_girl
Well of course it's her; the OP's question wasQuote:
Originally Posted by Miner
All any of us has done was posted our own personal opinion about whether this would be effective for them.Quote:
What do you think of the silent treatment as used for punishment.. Do you find it effective?
I think this highlights a difference...Quote:
Originally Posted by 13'sbadkitty
You have an argument, he roars off in a sulk (or you do the same). This is not 'using the silent treatment as punishment' in a BDSM context. For one thing it is not planned nor preset but an emotional response caused by an argument. Usually people do this because they want to avoid making an argument worse by saying or doing something they may regret - by leaving the situation they gain the chance to regain their control and act more rationally in later engagements.
Silence in BDSM is different. It is planned. The sub knows it will happen and why it is happening. It is not an emotional response to gain time to consider future actions but a demonstration of control and power. You could argue that, by pre-ordaining actions and consequences in this way, a BDSM relationship may well avoid arguments and feelings of abandonment because the sub knows where they stand - they have certainty.
What do you think of the silent treatment as used for punishment?
Not much.
I would agree with this. Silent treatment, in person, is probably one of the worst punishments I can think of. Even when my boyfriend is distracted, there is nothing worse to me than feeling ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by ppr128
I would think even in person this punishment could still feel like an abandonment, at least for me. I could see it as being used as a last resort punishment, though I suppose it depends on the effect it has the sub. For me, it would be devastating, but for someone else, it might not be as harsh of a punishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozme52
As a sub in transition, from an OL relationship to a RL one, I'd have to say that the silent treatment would be a crass mistake on the part of my Master. He's very well aware of that, so He has never used it.Quote:
Originally Posted by singletaillover
While OL, it would have meant, on my side of the screen, plain abandonment and the result would have been not finding me when He returned. When you jump off the boat, you're doing it for both parties involved.
In a RL context, explaining clearly the what, how and why's of my transgression help me improve my service and therefore the role I play in my Master's life. Then again, if it's an offense I've been punished for in the past and my behavior hasn't been modified, something is up and the "we need to talk" moment would follow shortly after.
Talk being the operative word. I've never responded with other than anxiety and mistrust after a "silent spell".
Which I'll point out, as you first quote part of my reply, I also said. It's my punishment of last resort. If we've talked and the sub can't adjust behavior, s/he better realize s/he has reached the end of my patience if I have nothing more to say on the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by openyoureyes
no i got that fetish, i did. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by fetishdj
i was actually i guess feeling my way through the question which is typical for me. now i will go immediately go sit in my corner quietly
It is my no.1 hard limit.
The moment he does that we really have nothing more to discuss. To me it says he is immature, inarticulate, overgrown brat that doesn't care about me or the relationship and is only in it for the "sports".
When one party needs time off or cooling off period, and its agreed to beforehand with set rules and time tables, that is fine, we all need that occasionally.
But I dont buy fanciful tripe that silent treatment in BDSM as punishment is something different than it is in vanilla world i.e. sulking bordering on emotional abuse or playing sadistic mind fucks. I know you can make it sound logical in print, the problem is that in practice it never translates itself as such. It is immature, it is callous and cruel, and just because it is effective in short term doesnt mean its "punishment", it is abandonment. It scars the submissive, it irrevocably damages the trust and by that relationship.
Now, as with everything else, some people get off on that....so to each their own.
Nothing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by singletaillover
The silent treatment would be an awful punishment tool in my relationship. I found this out the hard way. The one time I did something that required an actual punishment, I wanted to continue to discuss it (we were chatting online), though our relationship is not online, but RL. Sir was pretty pissed (to put it lightly) and said he'd get back with me "shortly".
I didn't move from my computer for hours just waiting for him to return. I was literally distraught. Apparently, I had/have abandonment issues with him; this surprised us both as I'd never experienced this sort of issue in previous relationships; than again, my other relationships were non D/s.
If I was this upset and only a few hours had passed, I'd hate to think how I'd react after a few days. Thankfully, Sir will not use the silent treatment as punishment and I try my darnedest not to give him reason to punish me.
By the way, that short bit of silent treatment wasn't even meant to be punishment; he just had a few other things to do. D'oh
For me this would also cause feeling of abandonment and would cause me to totally shut down. Been in a vanilla relationship that silent treatment was the norm and it has taught me I don't have to have conversation. On the other hand it has also conditioned me to it and I have to work now to not shut down when My Dom stops talking it makes me feel insecure, defensive, confused and cold which in turn makes me not want to talk when he is ready. Just bad all the way around for me as punishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13'sbadkitty
Aloha
silent treatment to me at least is a no no. It can be so damaging to a sub and all the more if it is unexplained. In such circumstance I would call it abuse. When explained I think it can often do more harm than good and it is a questionable way to treat anyone I think.
I have chatted to many subs just left dazed and confused and down right hurt.
I realise that what I might find a highly questionable preactice others might see as neccessary and I am all for people's right to their opinion. However I only hold this view when it does not harm others and I see little evidence of that.
To me it says more about the punisher than the punished.
(I do make a distinction here between times when us males just have to go to our cave to simmer down or do whatever we do there as opposed to just blocking someone out completely)
Mahalo Dragon
i think it largely has to do with the personality of the person who is going to be ignored. If Master were to ignore me, that would be an EXTREMELY severe punishment, so if it were given out i know that i would have had to something pretty extreme. Because i know how badly it would hurt to feel cut off from Him, even if only for a short amount of time, i would never put myself in a position to endure this; likewise, because He knows how badly it would hurt me, He would never spring such a punishment on me for something that wasn't a big deal. i think that this issue really just depends on the personalities of the people involved, and as long as there is communication on both sides, when/if such a punishment occurs, it will not be harmful to the relationship.
Well i waited. It doesnt look like anyone else is gonna try to defend it so... here goes, its my best shot at showing the other side. As with any punishment, the "crime" must have "earned" it. While i agree that flat out shutting down, ignoring or cutting off submissives from attention as a punishment on a regular basis is probably going to cause those submissives to build walls to protect themselves from emotional distress.... thats doesnt mean there isn't a way to do it, when its warranted. To me, the "silent treatment" is not a Dom/me off sulking or pouting in a fit, abandoning the submissive to his/her own devices.... in my opinion, that isnt a punishment, its a temper tantrum, and unlikely to have much effect other than whats been mentioned in the posts. Quite frankly, the only time i think the silent treatment is going to be effective is when the submissive is in a reactive, non-listening state of mind. Freak outs happen, especially in long term live in relationships. Refusing to speak with a hurt, sad or fragile submissive is counterproductive. Trying to talk with a reactive, angry, non listening submissive might be counter productive as well. Maybe putting submissives in a position that enforces more calm feelings, and telling them that since they REFUSE to listen when you speak, they will spent X amount of time with silence might be just the very ticket?? I could probably keep rambling on, but looks like master wants to me come and listen to something.......
:)) ;)
I dont like the idea of silent treatment
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppr128
This. My thoughts exactly. Except for the punishment part at the end.
A BDSM relationship, in my view, is based on two founding principles; Communication, and trust. I feel, personally, as if the silent treatment completely and totally breaks both of those things.
i have experienced this form of punishment in a past relationship. As stated by several, it was for a specified period of time and only as a last resort. i can honestly say i hated it, it was a very effective punishment that caused me to never repeat the same infraction again. (i still remember exactly what i did though it was years ago....needless to say, it stuck with me) To crawl to His feet, or to ask if He desired anything from me at the moment only to be completely ignored and made to feel invisible instead of the usual pat on the head or kind word was not only eye-opening & saddening, but humiliating. When the time was over my feelings and His were discussed and i was able to move on without guilt for what i had done. This is only me, everyone is different.
Exactly... everyone is different, and every relationship has it's own dynamic. Personally, I like open communication, so would not be inclined to use the 'silent treatment' as a punishment. I like to know what a sub is thinking and feeling, and there are so many other ways to punish an errant sub without cutting off communication.
As is everything else in this Lifestyle, it's not so much what we do but how and why we do it. C'mon people, we hit each other for fun - CLEARLY we defy convention, so let's try to approach this topic with an outta' the box point of view as well.
Many couples use physical punishments, but we can all see there is a HUGE difference between telling your sub what bothered you before putting her over your knee to spank her and walking into a room and punching her in a fit of anger. There's also a huge difference between cutting off communication with no explanation or emergency contact method, and setting a period of silence and/or no non-essential communication.
Frankly, if a sub were willfully breaking rules and wasting a Dom's time and effort, I see nothing wrong with said Dom saying, "if your time with me means so little, then we're going to spend some time apart. Don't contact me, and I won't contact you this weekend."
Umm, but the thing is when I'm like on the receiving end of it by the Female Head of the House and her long term male friend, I hate it as I know that I'm being punished for something I've done wrong and so upset them. I hate having it done to me and they know that so they only use it now and again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mature Sir
I mean I hate the fact that once I'm in my room away from them (no music and no TV) all there is to is think about why I've been punished eg for saying something mean to one of her friends or something like that. And that means it is really hard to not think about why I'm in my room, not being talked to and stuff like that.
For me... The silent treatment is effective in one thing and that is me being devastated and withdrawing completely! I love my Master dearly but I have problems and He knows that it would totally tear me apart. It would be very hard for me to reestablish that connection with Him. I am the type of person that struggles to connect with people and I do not do terribly well with being ignored. It is all to easy for me to slip into a state of mine where nothing matters to me, I believe I matter to no one and stop having any drive to be near anyone. So no this is not a feasible punishment for me. My Master loves me and ultimately my punishments are His choice. I know that He will not do anything to leave me emotionally hurting and vulnerable. I gave myself to Him willingly knowing that He will care for me. However - I can say that for every couple it is bound to be a bit different. Each couple has their own dynamics and relationships operate differently.
we have a time between the actual punishment is handed down and the punishment this is to reflect on the transgression