Do you lie to friends?

[thir]

http://www.care2.com/greenliving/why...feel-good.html

This article concerns the knotty question of whether you should never lie to friends, or if it is sometimes necesseary to lie in order to protect them?

I would like to add family to that question.

[Thorne]

Other than the small white lies we all use to grease the wheels of communication ("You're looking good today"), I don't make a habit of lying to friends. I may not volunteer information, which might be considered a lie of omission, but if asked a straight question I give them a straight answer.

Which probably accounts for the fact that I don't have any friends!

[Ozme52]

Other than the small white lies we all use to grease the wheels of communication ("You're looking good today"), I don't make a habit of lying to friends. I may not volunteer information, which might be considered a lie of omission, but if asked a straight question I give them a straight answer.

Always. If they're a friend, they'll forgive, aid, and/or console. Why hide?
If they don't, they weren't your friend and giving up your integrity wouldn't have been worth it.

But that doesn't mean I won't lie to a specific friend to preserve a promise to them.

Lying in and of itself is not wrong. It depends on the motivation.

---------------

And all that said, I have no doubt I slip up every once in a while.

[thir]

Lying in and of itself is not wrong. It depends on the motivation.

I'd say lying is always wrong, and it would take a really tricky and bad situation to justify it.

I think 'little white lies' are a pestilence.

[Ozme52]

I'd say lying is always wrong, and it would take a really tricky and bad situation to justify it.

I think 'little white lies' are a pestilence.

Let's start with something simpler. What about lies of omission? Are they lies too?

[leo9]

Let's start with something simpler. What about lies of omission? Are they lies too?

Yes, and that's the ones I don't use enough of. My friends' commonest complaint is too much information.

[thir]

Let's start with something simpler. What about lies of omission? Are they lies too?

I don't know. Can you give me some examples?

[brwneydgirl]

I'd say lying is always wrong, and it would take a really tricky and bad situation to justify it.

I think 'little white lies' are a pestilence.

thir, I usually agree with your posts but I have to disagree strongly with this one....."lying is always wrong"...yikes.

Oz makes a great example in his post about answering, "Fine, thanks..." to the new client.

And would you honestly want to hear someone say, "Actually thir, you look like bloody hell, very tired, like you've just been sick and gained 20 lbs." when you ask them if they like your new hat?

Like I said before, should we run around lying constantly...no. But a small (read: harmless---and it's a personal choice what you find to be a harmless lie) lie of omission or "white" lie can make life more bearable for the liar *and* the person being lied to.

BTW, I love your hat...and have you lost weight?

[thir]

thir, I usually agree with your posts but I have to disagree strongly with this one....."lying is always wrong"...yikes.

Yikes? Well I can understand that it sounds sort or radical, but personally I have always felt better when people say what they mean. In the long wrong it makes life easier.

And would you honestly want to hear someone say, "Actually thir, you look like bloody hell, very tired, like you've just been sick and gained 20 lbs." when you ask them if they like your new hat?

This may qualify as more information than asked for ;-)
If I ask about my hat, it is my hat I expect an answer to.

Seriously, lying by omission does not mean that you have to say everything that pops up in your head, and which no one has asked for. At least, that is how I see it.

Also seriously, I am simply not comfortable with people who say I look good if I know I look like hell. It is a situation I can identify with because of my illness, and so I can say with honesty (having been in this very situation frequently) that I do not want it. If people feel like commenting on my looks, I expexct them to say what they think!

If I make a dinner and it tastes awful, I expect people to say so, so I can learn to do it better. I know this is hard on other people, and would be hard on me as well. But it is what I, myself, want.

Like I said before, should we run around lying constantly...no. But a small (read: harmless---and it's a personal choice what you find to be a harmless lie) lie of omission or "white" lie can make life more bearable for the liar *and* the person being lied to.

BTW, I love your hat...and have you lost weight?

Yes, it is different from person to person what they consider harmless - an important point. And if everybody answers how good you look in your new hat, you never know what anybody thinks of anything (by extension.) And you have all the trouble of trying to tell someone that 'you really mean it'.

I understand that others have different opinions, and would like to point out that I am merely saying what I myself would really want.

[thir]

Other than the small white lies we all use to grease the wheels of communication ("You're looking good today"), I don't make a habit of lying to friends. I may not volunteer information, which might be considered a lie of omission, but if asked a straight question I give them a straight answer.

Which probably accounts for the fact that I don't have any friends!

Your would have me!
Especially if you do not say 'you look good today' if in fact I look like something the cat just dragged in ;-)

[thir]

if asked a straight question I give them a straight answer.

Yes.

Or to put it another way: if someone asks your honest opinion, do you give it, if you think it will hurt them?

As I see it, if you lie, you are 1) rejcting their request which they must have a reason for 2) appointing yourself their guardian, and deciding what they can or cannot stand to hear. You do not see them as adults capable of making their own decisions. 3) Or maybe we are in the difficult grey area of who it is you are protecting: the friend, or yourself from their reactions.

If someone asks your honest opinion and gets mad at the answer, then that is their problem.

But that is not the same as saying that your either do the 'white' lie, or use the equavalent of a verbal six-shooter. You can try to say things gently, but truth-fully.

[brwneydgirl]

What a tricky subject...

We've all been taught that it's wrong to tell a lie but I agree with Thorne that it completely depends on the "type" of lie. For instance, he mentioned telling someone they look great when they obviously don't. It's just a little boost for your friend or loved one and where's the harm in that?

This goes hand-in-hand with Oz's comment as well about the motivation. Although what's that old saying about the road to hell being paved with good intentions? Slippery slope, there.

[MMI]

One lies to friends in their interests, or to avoid straining the friendship. Rarely are the lies malicious, and when they are, one isn't really being a friend at all.

White lies are good.

But what about the other, more important area of life, where one's integrity is much more important: work. Who lies at work, to cover up mistakes, to do a colleague down, to gain promotion? These lies are far more significant and the level of dishonesty is far greater.

[Ozme52]

One lies to friends in their interests, or to avoid straining the friendship. Rarely are the lies malicious, and when they are, one isn't really being a friend at all.

White lies are good.

But what about the other, more important area of life, where one's integrity is much more important: work. Who lies at work, to cover up mistakes, to do a colleague down, to gain promotion? These lies are far more significant and the level of dishonesty is far greater.

Nope. I walked the straight and narrow. Always found it better to fess up and fix the problem than hide it and let it get worse.

Everyone got the due they earned. I never stepped up on someone elses back. I often found myself waiting on a promotion while others less qualified got their chances first... and learned that following a bad act is far easier than following a good one.

[steelish]

Oh yikes no. Lies at work are bad, bad, bad. I have no respect for anyone who does that.

As far as whether or not I lie to friends...I guess you could say I do the little white lies to make them feel better. I have also lied by omission when telling someone something could be hurtful or strain relationships.

[asiangirl]

Personally, we all thrive to uphold our integrity and back stabbing or covering up for one's own mistakes or taking other people's credit for one's own advance are lies most of us wouldn't lower ourselves to.

However, when there is a conflict of interest between business goals and the welfare of the employee, then the line becomes fuzzy. Say your upper management just told you that they will lay off half of your group in six months, but they want you to keep them in the dark because they want the project to be delivered on time without any disruption. And one of your employee senses something wrong and come and ask you whether there will be a layoff coming soon, how would you respond in that situation? I guess my point is sometimes things may not be as black and white as it seems, professionally or personally. We all need to use our judgement in any given situation and make sure our decision will be a good reflection of our own value system.

[MMI]

Thorne, if you do not know the husband is being unfaithful, you would be very unwise to mention it, especially if not asked. I don't think it is any kind of lie, unless it is what sleeping dogs do.

For it to be a lie of omission, you must deliberately refrain from confirming the wife's suspicions.

IMHO, that is.

Ozme, are you really trying to deceive the client by not admitting to a headache? Or are you simply rehearsing formalities? After all, if you said, "Oh, I have a headache," wouldn't the client simply respond, "I'm sorry to hear it," and then move on to inspect your price list?

Now, if you had bubonic plague, and still said "Fine," that would be a lie of omission.

IMHO.

[Ozme52]

Ozme, are you really trying to deceive the client by not admitting to a headache? Or are you simply rehearsing formalities? After all, if you said, "Oh, I have a headache," wouldn't the client simply respond, "I'm sorry to hear it," and then move on to inspect your price list?

I didn't claim it was a deceit. I said there are acceptable white lies and thir challenged that. So this was my example.

If the lie was intended to deceive, meaning lead that person astray in deed or choice, then the motivation for the lie would make it not "white".

[brwneydgirl]

Ozme, are you really trying to deceive the client by not admitting to a headache? Or are you simply rehearsing formalities? After all, if you said, "Oh, I have a headache," wouldn't the client simply respond, "I'm sorry to hear it," and then move on to inspect your price list?

And using that logic, if said client responded with, "I'm sorry to hear it..." when what he really meant was, "Oh stop complaining you pain in the ass. No one cares about your headache. My dog just threw-up on my new carpet." then he would be a liar too.

However, by answering in a polite manner, (white lie or not), he just made your meeting a whole lot easier to get through.

[13'sbadkitty]

my experience with being honest is sort of like what Thorne said, i just lost a close friend when I told her something she didn't want to hear. It was simply a statement my son said about her daughter (they are 5). I hadn't told her he didn't want to play with her anymore because she was being bossy until one day i did and no more friend!

[thir]

my experience with being honest is sort of like what Thorne said, i just lost a close friend when I told her something she didn't want to hear. It was simply a statement my son said about her daughter (they are 5). I hadn't told her he didn't want to play with her anymore because she was being bossy until one day i did and no more friend!

It is painful to loose a friend, and there are indeed terrible situations where one comment can mean the world.

But I would not define a relationship as a friendship if you cannot normally sort out things that go wrong, but have to balance your words on a silver weight not to get it wrong.

[MMI]

Accepting that there's no intention to deceive, aren't these introductory formalities simply empty words?

I think a lie must be an attempt to deceive, whether for "good/kind" reasons ( a white lie) or for "bad" reasons (a proper lie).

[MMI]

My point precisely: empty words, polite noises, normal interaction.

[TantricSoul]

I for one am tired of lies both harmless and harmful.

Words have power, far more than I understood as a younger man. These days I try to be impeccable with my words.

In the "how are you?" example i can respond with "As well as life allows, thanks for asking, and yourself?" remaining truthful without dumping all my "problems" on the person who asked. If they want to know more they can ask, if they don't, we can move on gracefully.

I think in all the above examples one could find and use words that are truthful, that omit omitting, and can serve the same goal as the tempting little white lie.

Honesty does not need to be blunt, just honest.

Opinion gets in the way of facts, and perception often makes a "liar" out of those who see or experience something different. And we as humans have a hard enough time communicating effectively already. Do we really need to complicate this reality by adding intentional falsehoods into the mix?

I for one, do not agree that what I think to be harmless, would indeed be harmless to another. Whether they are injured or not, by my words, will ultimately be decided by them.

On another note, if you should see me sometime, and I look like shit, or my fly is unzipped, or there is toilet paper hanging out the back of my pants. Please do tell me, I would rather have one moment of embarrassment than an entire day.

Anyway just one mans ramblings, been a while since I rambled in here

Respectfully,
TS

[oww-that-hurt]

Going back to the original question about lying to friends.

"What is a true friend?" must first be answered and agreed upon by everybody in a discussion such as this, which of course is impossible. And "Why did I pick this person as a true friend?" must also be answered. I know, picky, picky, detail freak.

We're all lucky if we have one or two actual true friends. I have two, that I have been friends with for 35 and over 40 years (yeah, we're old coots). It would be impossible for me to go into all the things that make these "true" friends, but it is everything from being there at births and weddings and graduations and funerals to just plain old fishing buddies. The thought of any of us actually lying to one another is just too impossible to think about. I don't think the question for this forum is for that deep of a friendship.

That leaves what? Might it be said that the friends in the original question are really more like non-confrontational acquaintances? They may play golf or enjoy a beer after work together. We all have several of those, which I feel is what the article first referenced is about. The article calls them "rhinestones". My two friends are "jewels".

The jewels and rhinestones are treated differently and cannot be in the same conversation. The situation you find yourself in with a rhinestone can have several reasons for little white lies, or lies by omission, or just about anything. There is also "does this friend need to know" something? Is there a "need to know", or are you just being snoopy, or is it none of your business?

My two jewels could walk into the local brewery and see my wife there with some unknown man having a beer and they would just wander over and introduce themselves. Nothing to be sneaky about. My wife will have already told me she was going to meet Joe-Bill-Sam-whomever, anyway, and they know that. My wife is a jewel friendship, too, by the way.

It's having all of those rhinestone friendships and reading them as jewel friendships where problems begin. I think the article was pretty good at making a reader realize what a bunch of soap-opera friendships there are out there.

And, come on, how many of you are truthfully born on January 1st? That was so funny seeing about half of the members born that day! Could it be deduced that if you are born January 1st that you might have some sort of BDSM tendencies? LMAO

[brwneydgirl]

On another note, if you should see me sometime, and I look like shit, or my fly is unzipped, or there is toilet paper hanging out the back of my pants. Please do tell me, I would rather have one moment of embarrassment than an entire day.

I will be first in line to tell you that your fly is unzipped...then again, I might just enjoy the view for a while before I tell you...is that a lie of omission?

[TantricSoul]

^
Take your time and enjoy the view beg, then when your satiated please do take a moment to pass along the

xyzpdq.

lol ... you're awesome.

[brwneydgirl]

xyzpdq.

OMG!!! Did you sit behind me in 8th grade Social Studies class? I didn't think anybody said that besides me...LOL