How much the mid east loves us

[Stone]

Below are the actual voting records of various Arabic/Islamic States which are recorded in both the US State Department and United Nations records:


Kuwait votes against the United States 67% of the time


Qatar votes against the United States 67% of the time


Morocco votes against the United States 70% of the time


United Arab Emirates votes against the U. S. 7 0% of the time.


Jordan votes against the United States 71% of the time.


Tunisia votes against the United States 71% of the time.


Saudi Arabia votes against the United States 73% of the time.


Yemen votes against the United States 74% of the time.


Algeria votes against the United States 74% of the time.


Oman votes against the United States 74% of the time.


Sudan votes against the United States 75% of the time.


Pakistan votes against the United States 75% of the time.


Libya votes against the United States 76% of the time.


Egypt votes against the United States 79% of the time.


Lebanon votes against the United States 80% of the time.


India votes against the United States 81% of the time.


Syria votes against the United States 84% of the time.


Mauritania votes against the United States 87% of the time.


U S Foreign Aid to those that hate us:


Egypt, for example, after voting 79% of the time against the United States , still receives $2 billion annually in US Foreign Aid.


Jordan votes 71% against the United States


And receives $192,814,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.


Pakistan votes 75% against the United States


Receives $6,721,000 annually in US Foreign Aid.


India votes 81% against the United States


Receives $143,699,000 annually.


Perhaps it is time to get out of the UN and give the tax savings back to the American workers who are having to skimp and sacrifice to pay the taxes (and gasoline).


Something to think on

[nk_lion]

First of all, India is neither a Middle Eastern nation, nor is it an Islamic nation, so I am not sure why you included it in there.
Second, if the point for US to send money to these countries was to gain supporters in whatever is on their agenda, then it wouldn't be called foreign aid, it would be called a bribe.
Third, several nations you mentioned, (ex. United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia) have invested billions into the world economy including US. They are a constant customer of American companies such as defense, technology, etc. Should they leave the UN and stop spending money in US because the latter disagrees with them on topics such as the Iraq war or Palestine?

I do not mean to sound harsh, and apologize if I am. But the United Nations was established right after the second World War to prevent the third. It is clearly not an ideal solution to prevent conflict, but it is currently the best the world has in terms of a global forum to resolve differences. For the US to simply quit an organization that it was one of the founding members on the basis of not being followed by other countries would seem arrogant and would only isolate itself from the east.

And lastly, it would do well for the American leaders to understand why people from Middle Eastern/Islamic countries hate them. I am completely against the terrorist methods employed by a fanatical few, but I assure you that it is not because 'they hate your freedom'.

[Ozme52]

First of all, India is neither a Middle Eastern nation, nor is it an Islamic nation, so I am not sure why you included it in there.
Second, if the point for US to send money to these countries was to gain supporters in whatever is on their agenda, then it wouldn't be called foreign aid, it would be called a bribe.
Third, several nations you mentioned, (ex. United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia) have invested billions into the world economy including US. They are a constant customer of American companies such as defense, technology, etc. Should they leave the UN and stop spending money in US because the latter disagrees with them on topics such as the Iraq war or Palestine?

I do not mean to sound harsh, and apologize if I am. But the United Nations was established right after the second World War to prevent the third. It is clearly not an ideal solution to prevent conflict, but it is currently the best the world has in terms of a global forum to resolve differences. For the US to simply quit an organization that it was one of the founding members on the basis of not being followed by other countries would seem arrogant and would only isolate itself from the east.

And lastly, it would do well for the American leaders to understand why people from Middle Eastern/Islamic countries hate them. I am completely against the terrorist methods employed by a fanatical few, but I assure you that it is not because 'they hate your freedom'.

I probably agree (more or less) with most everything you say except that last point. They do, in fact, hate our freedom... and specifically our freedom of religion. The Islamic fundamentalist governments are quite specific about that.

[gloombunny]

Perhaps it is time to get out of the UN and give the tax savings back to the American workers who are having to skimp and sacrifice to pay the taxes (and gasoline).

Getting out of the UN would save us... what? The membership dues we already don't pay?

[mkemse]

The last 6 1/2 years the United States has allienated every ally we have with the possibly exception of the UK, whether we stay or leave the UN now is a non issue
As a nation we need to to re establish our allies World Wide to do anything right now, and those countries that do support us and are friendly with us are to small to make any difference in case of war ect

[TomOfSweden]

Those statistics are retarded. It assumes that USA is floating suggestions that would be in these countries best interest to vote for.

Don't forget this is politics. Results in UN elections are never surprising. They're always negotiated in advance. If USA wants to make something pass they'll negotiate with a majority of candidates in advance or not make the petitian at all. What the remaining countries say is of no consequence and they know it. Which adds to the bullshit factor in those statistics.

Some do fail though...but polititians often make petitions rigged to fail, only so they can say to the voters they made an atempt to make it pass.

[TomOfSweden]

ignore delete

[Stone]

I am meerly pointing the fact that all these countries vote adgainst us but gee they sure seem to be able to hold out their hands and take the money dont they?I work hard pay my taxes all the things i am supposed to do yet my hard earned money is paying for bullshit like this,Countries that want our moeny thats for sure. all i can say is we need to get out of the UN let the rest of the countries pay for it if they want it and tax their citizens to give other coutries free money.I as an american am tired of all the giving we do for other countries we give money, the lives of our young men, food,and medicine to countries that hate us,but we they need help money or a police force here we come running.

[tessa]

Can statistics be retarded? Hmm, I don't think so.

Believe it or not, ejaculation can be retarded, but not statistics.

[gloombunny]

I dunno about "retarded", exactly, but statistics can most certainly be pointless, irrelevant, or deceitful.

And that's even assuming that they're true.

[tessa]

I dunno about "retarded", exactly, but statistics can most certainly be pointless, irrelevant, or deceitful.

And that's even assuming that they're true.

Even truth, whatever that is, can be pointless or irrelevent, depending on how one chooses to view it.

I just think it's important to respect that we all have the option to have our own personal opinions, whether one agrees with them or not.

[TomOfSweden]

Even truth, whatever that is, can be pointless or irrelevent, depending on how one chooses to view it.

I just think it's important to respect that we all have the option to have our own personal opinions, whether one agrees with them or not.

It's not a question of respecting someones opinion, is a question of causality. MasterStone drew some remarkable conclusions from statistics that in my opinion are just plain false. I'd very much like to know if, in light of my revalation of the democratic process, he now feels that he can still draw the same conclusions he did. There's more issues I've got, but this is a start.

I'm sure I'm not hurting MasterStones feelings. I'm assuming that he posted this in order for there to be a discussion. Which is what I'm doing.

[TomOfSweden]

I am meerly pointing the fact that all these countries vote adgainst us but gee they sure seem to be able to hold out their hands and take the money dont they?I work hard pay my taxes all the things i am supposed to do yet my hard earned money is paying for bullshit like this,Countries that want our moeny thats for sure. all i can say is we need to get out of the UN let the rest of the countries pay for it if they want it and tax their citizens to give other coutries free money.I as an american am tired of all the giving we do for other countries we give money, the lives of our young men, food,and medicine to countries that hate us,but we they need help money or a police force here we come running.

No, you are turning UN politics into a popularity contest. Some kind of pageant. Those voting number are meaningless. They don't reflect what they where voting about or the opinions of the people in those countries. They only reflect tactical voting by one representative for each country. From this we can deduce nothing at all. Not even if they like USA or not.

[Radiance]

All i have to say on the matter is the USA seem to stick there noses in way too much shit and should maybe leave the countries to do as they please and not start war after war, enough from me...Radi

[Ozme52]

All i have to say on the matter is the USA seem to stick there noses in way too much shit and should maybe leave the countries to do as they please and not start war after war, enough from me...Radi

While that seems to be the popular consensus... only history will be able to determine if Hussein, for example, might have turned out to be the Hitler of the Middle East. Neville Chamberlain made peace with Nazi Germany... Apeasement... a bad move in retrospect. I wonder what an early entry into what became WWII would have accomplished. Afterall, at that point the Luftwaffe was flying squadrons of biplanes painted on opposite sides with different squadron markings to make the apparent arms capabilities double... An early confrontation might have spared Europe that conflagration.

Who can say, without a doubt, that removing Hussein as the leader of Iraq hasn't averted a far more dire consequence.

[Confessor_Ed]

Who can say, without a doubt, that removing Hussein as the leader of Iraq hasn't averted a far more dire consequence.

I can. The SAS could have brought him down in a flash but no, those who govern us wanted the 'glory'. The 2 B's wanted to look heroic and it was mainly symbolisim that has gone horribly wrong. What kind of legacy have they left behind? Peace makers or tyrants?

Who would you chose to invade? Pick your war.
Kuwait and Iraq's war. Key word. Oil.
Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe. Keywords. No Oil.
Ed

[Ozme52]

I can. The SAS could have brought him down in a flash but no, those who govern us wanted the 'glory'. The 2 B's wanted to look heroic and it was mainly symbolisim that has gone horribly wrong. What kind of legacy have they left behind? Peace makers or tyrants?

Who would you chose to invade? Pick your war.
Kuwait and Iraq's war. Key word. Oil.
Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe. Keywords. No Oil.
Ed

You're arguing against my statement because you would have preferred him assassinated.. but you haven't said it would have been better to leave him in power.

So are you agreeing with me or not?

[Guest 91108]

I'd pull back if it was my choice for awhile.
We're stretched to thin.....
We give too much while not taking care of our own.
period.

[nk_lion]

Out of curiosity Masterstone, where did you get these numbers from, and did it include the types of topics where these countries voted against US?

Arab and Muslim countries will not vote with the US if it has anything to do with Israel's purpose. They will also not vote with the Americans if its anything to do with the Iraq war. There are countries that would rather do without the soldiers for policing. This is regardless of the amount of money US gives them.

And as for the free money comment - there is no such thing as free money. With the money going to these countries, check what are the conditions of receiving the money.

USA is an awesome country, and only 7 years ago, I remember people from the Middle East would want to immitate the American way of life. It should not conduct it's foreign policy by labelling an entire country including it's citizens an axis of evil, as it should not disregard the organization that it help establish when a permanent member or members veto them.

Just to be sure about this, I disagree with Masterstone on this issue but think he probably is a great guy, I don't want any hard feelings.

[Stone]

First tom its takes far more than discussion of politics to hurt my feelingsand you did not.These stats were just a complilation of 5 years of votes and i will say yes stats can be deceptive i,m sure right now you could say childhood obesity is up and child molestion is down with the right group to poll.We do know the muslims countries in the middle east hate us there is little to no doubt about that.This hatred steams from the past when the UN was formed and out of guilt over the holocaust Isreal came into existance.All the members of the UN came together and basically said allright alll you people get out it belongs to the jews now so bugger off.When most people and countries think of the UN they think of the USA due to all the humanatarian aid we provide throughout the world.What i would really like to see is just how much aid milatry food medicine all the rest of the members of the UN contribute because to me it seems we are writing most the checks sending most of the food most of the medicaine and most of the military forces to settle the squabbles that really should not matter to us at all.The truely sad thing is our boys fighting in iraq right now death rate is less than the murder rate thats in our country right now.Safer in a warzone than at home.We need to fix our problems here before you go running off to help others.

[nk_lion]

What i would really like to see is just how much aid milatry food medicine all the rest of the members of the UN contribute because to me it seems we are writing most the checks sending most of the food most of the medicaine and most of the military forces to settle the squabbles that really should not matter to us at all.

As Claude Simon said it
"To begin with, our perception of the world is deformed, incomplete"

When I was small, I lived in the Middle East. And from my experience, people over there don't want US to interfere with their problems, unless they explicitly ask for help. No one that I knew over there had a problem with Gulf War 1, and everyone (or almost everyone) hated Saddam Hussain. They see the US trying to furthur their own interests in the region.

These stats were just a complilation of 5 years of votes

Then I'm assuming that most of the disagreements were based on the Iraq issue. I imagine (I'm not looking at the source of these stats) that Germany and France also have a voting record disagreeing with US.

As of the amount in foreign aid given, you are right, US gives the highest amount, but in terms of percentage of GDP, the following countries contribute more:

Norway
Luxembourg
Denmark
Sweden
Netherlands
Portugal
France
Belgium
Switzerland
Ireland
United Kingdom
Finland
Germany
Canada/Spain/Australia/Austria/New Zealand/Greece (Tied)
Japan

[Stone]

well the french allways vote adgainst us they hate us and germany well they got their asses kicked 2 times by us. and yes they give a higher percentage of their GDP but they have way higher taxes than we do and far fewer people good for them if they want to pay for the UN let them. i have never seen the UN do nothing but vote to send our boys and money to other countries.I am saying i think we need to keep our money for our people we have pleanty of problems here we have homeless kids without healthcare kids without food or a place to live people who are obviously mentally ill living on the streets cities that are so dangerous none of us talking here would want to go to them.

[mkemse]

Our Country, The Inted States has a history in of getting involved in areas of the world we hae no business getting involved it, as someone said a few months back, do not recall who "The United States has to stop policing thr world and "forcing" it's way onto other countrie"
There may very well be nations on Earth that simply do not want to be like us, but we have an incesent need as a Nation to stick our nose into every countries problems,, we hae very few allies now and many enemies, this Has nothing to do with 911, this is somthing our country has done for decades

[Stone]

Yes they hate or religous freedom the most it is every muslims job to covert us make us their slaves or simply just kill us.Most people do not understand Islam,or want to in Islam there are 3 houses the house of Islam saved for the muslims of course,The house of treaty,and the house of war.Here in the USA we are christians so we do not fall into the house of Islam nor do we have a treaty with them so there is only one thing left the house of war.This thread will probably start getting flamed and heated so keep in mind we are having a discussion not a who's right or wrong.

[tessa]

This thread will probably start getting flamed and heated so keep in mind we are having a discussion not a who's right or wrong.

[nk_lion]

Yeeaa....1 down, 5 to go, breaking from my voluntary insanity to come here.

Yes they hate or religous freedom the most it is every muslims job to covert us make us their slaves or simply just kill us.Most people do not understand Islam,or want to in Islam there are 3 houses the house of Islam saved for the muslims of course,The house of treaty,and the house of war.Here in the USA we are christians so we do not fall into the house of Islam nor do we have a treaty with them so there is only one thing left the house of war.This thread will probably start getting flamed and heated so keep in mind we are having a discussion not a who's right or wrong.

Wrong. There is no such thing as three houses in Islam, (at least in Sunnism and Shiasm). It is a duty for Muslims to inform others of Islam, but not to force it down someone's throat, and definitely not to kill non-Muslims if they disagree. Islam recognizes Christians and Jews as people of the book (Religions extremely close in idealogy and history). Muslims, albeit restrictively, are allowed to marry Christians and Jews. For years after Islam came to being, there were people from different religions living under the same empire. Only after Septerber 11, 2001, did the world really pay attention to the Middle East apart from oil.

Now I'm not saying everything is fine over there, or even close to it, but people from all religions live there, including Jews. Some countries over there even have a national holiday on Christmas. People over there don't care about other religions, they care about the fact that in their eyes, Arabs are being mistreated in Arabian lands. That the West pushes forward to 'invade' them for their oil, and then leave them dry.

A member of islam can lie to his wife anyone he is doing buisness with and especially the enemy it is not a sin.I will say its not so much the common everyday muslim you have to worry about like with all religons its the extremests the trouble is its the extremests that are incharge of these middle eastren countries.

Wrong again, lying for a Muslim is a sin, period. There are no if, ands or buts. It is as bad to lie, as it is to commit adultry. Islam follows the 10 commandments including the famous - "Thou shall not lie".


Now, I think that even if Iraq did have WMDs, USUK shouldn't have gone in that quickly. Saddam was a tyrant who knew too well how to rule his country with an iron grip. If US looked to the north and saw the Turk/Kurdish strife, or the East, and realised that another member of the 'Axis of Evil' with the largest Shia population bordered Iraq, or realised that the centeral Iraq consisted with a ruling minority that would lose power soon to those they have been oppressing for years, it may have paused for a moment to think of a possibility of a civil war. Weeks after entering Iraq, the so-called Mission was Accomplished. But look, years and thousands of Iraqis/Americans/British lives later, you have a country that is more dangerous then ever, a hotbed for terrorists, and no end in sight for the disastor Jon Stewart so rightly calls Messopotamia.

It is right for stronger/richer countries to help out poorer ones, especially ones in turmoil. But how an administration can plan a war and a country rebuilding efforts, right after leading another war in Afganistan, and dealing with the recent recession, and the normal stuff within America all in 18 months is beyond me.

[mkemse]

agreed let's keep this thread as it is wih comments only no flaming, nobody will be pleased with ever remark, more impoartantly we are ALL ADULTS, let act liked civilzed ones on this thread and stay within the subject matter, no flaming just comments or remarks

[LikelySuspect]

I'm a canadian. but as i get bombarded with american tv, politics, intenet, etc, i have a bit of an educated opinion.
I know for a fact that america is not solely a cristian nation for one. you say that they hate your freedom of religion, then group yourselves into one category. from what i gather, america was established on the seperation of church and state.
anywho, now that my religion speech is done, i think that, while it does need to look after its own, its only fitting that one of the richest countries in the world should be looking after others as well.

just my two cents. i like watching this thread.

[mkemse]

No, i do not believe they hate us for our religion alone, i believe most countires that hate us because we have this need to involve our elves in every world confilict and push our "ways" onto others, religion does play a part, but i do not beileve it is the sole reason, we are not like, we are not liked because we have the need to always police the world and make other countries like we are, our form of government, or freedoms ect realgion as i said does play a a part but certainly not the only part
Those countries not a threat to us we need to eave them alone and let them be and let the peple in those countries live they way THEY want not the way WE WANT THEM TO

[Stone]

we are dealing with all the freedoms we have in our country we do have several religons in our country but it was founded a christian country.We have the freedom to choose our leaders even though the choices we have often really suck.the women here have the right to vote the right to work the right to choose who they marry.This frightens the middle eastren countries the most not so much the people its their leaders.If the people of these countries had the freedom we have the leaders they would loose all the power they have.They use their religon to help keep the people down especially the women they are kept uneducated have no rights no freedom of choice treated like property.I for one find this aweful but its not my problem or the USA's problem one day these countries will address these problems or not it will take a revolution on the peoples part to fix them not an invasion by another country to fix it.