Humilation Debate

[Ozme52]

Bottom line it's all a matter of your mindset.

Is the act degrading and therefore humiliating to you?
Do you abhor that or relish it? Why?
Is it the circumstances or the person who's imposing the act on you?

Is there a difference between humiliation and 'merely' being embarrassed?

And lastly, Is humiliation merely the emotional equivilent of pain? Something you would normally avoid... but in the context of bdsm-play, glorious.

[master 327-834-200]

Bottom line it's all a matter of your mindset.

Is the act degrading and therefore humiliating to you?
Do you abhor that or relish it? Why?
Is it the circumstances or the person who's imposing the act on you?

Is there a difference between humiliation and embarrassment?

And lastly, Is humiliation merely the emotional equivilent of pain? Something you would normally avoid... but in the context of bdsm-play, glorious.

I love it when someone sums it all up succinctly.

Thanks for an excellent post Ozme52

[elyse]

Bottom line it's all a matter of your mindset.

This is soooo true!

i abhor the idea of humiliation, but the personal definition of humiliation is unique to each individual. There is a task over in the Academy listed as a punishment with a humiliation component. i read it, and just thought it was.... omg hot.

[Timberwolf]

"And lastly, Is humiliation merely the emotional equivilent of pain? Something you would normally avoid... but in the context of bdsm-play, glorious."

I certainly think so. In chat the other night the term I used was "the verbal version of edge play".

[_ID_]

humiliation is simply a point of view. As Oz had indicated.

A prime example:
We own two different collars, one is her permanent one that she never takes off, except for surgery, and the airport. The other is our play collar. There is no mistaking what it is for. The permanent one is 3/8" stainless steel. Looks very nice on her neck. No D ring or anything. Just a very interesting looking necklace if you don't know better. The play collar is a leather collar with 3 D rings. one at the throat, and one on each side. Well I had her wear the play collar out around town. We stopped into a gas station and she got out, forgetting it was on. In the middle of the store she remembers it was on. It was very humiliating, but she did enjoy the overt statement that was being said about her. Made her feel very submissive to be wearing it cause she was told to.

Each is just a collar, yet one invokes pride, where the other was a source of humiliation.

Talking with a male switch who I am very good friends with. He indicated that more men than women seek humiliation due to the taboo factor. Men generally are always looking for that new high, that next activity that will be more exciting than the last one. Where women don't normally want to bust through societal taboos (I did say normally).

V/R
ID

[phantasy_seeker]

If I may beg to differ on a minor point...

I think the taboo factor IS what makes it so exciting and delicious for some of us, but only when it's done with someone whom we trust completely. Someone who would call us a worthless slut or a stupid bitch, but whom we KNOW does not really think of us as such. For myself, I absolutely abhor humiliation in daily life, perhaps more than the average person does. But I would say that in BDSM play, it is one of the biggest turn-ons for me. I believe if the social taboo wasn't there, if there was no social stigma in being a 'slut'... then there would be no thrill.

[Ozme52]

So... is it only a turn-on if privately uttered or better if someone might/can overhear?

[Psynymph]

wearing collar is definitely a thing of pride and humilation for me. i enjoy the idea of wearing a collar my Trainer picked out for me. Right after He began my training He made me wear the collar to a club W/we and all O/our friends hang out at. i beamed the entire time. and blushed constantly. everyone there knew what the collar signified and teased me mercilessly about it. but by the end of the night i couldn't keep my hands off of Him.

humilation definitely just depends on the person.

but i started this thread so i could see what E/everyone's thoughts were. it's interesting to see E/everyone's stand point.

humilation and exibitionaism......one in the same for me usually......being made to show my submission to someone in public definitely brings out my modesty. my biggest problem when i started training was addressing Him at all times as "Sir" in public and "Daddy" in private. oh and when He took me to my first bdsm party.......T/they had field day with my blushes and modesty. humilation was brought to a whole new level for me. and ohmigawd it was hot.

[phantasy_seeker]

So... is it only a turn-on if privately uttered or better if someone might/can overhear?

I would say both, although in public some degree of subtlety would be called for.

[Hime]

I definitely enjoy being humiliated and degraded... the fallback punishment that I've had to go through a lot of lately is wearing a padded bra with silicone inserts that add up to 2 or 3 cup sizes difference (I'm naturally a D, and no, I'm not wearing it in my avatar picture -- that's all me). He has me try on different outfits over it and picks out which one shows me off the best before we go out. I feel humiliated when I have to wear it in public, especially in front of friends, because it makes me feel like I have to compensate for not being good enough, and because it draws people's attention to my sexuality and sometimes (with a low-cut blouse) makes me look pretty slutty, which he of course loves. I definitely get squirmy wearing it in public, but when he takes me home and fucks me while I'm still strapped into it (he calls it my "harness"), the feeling of his fingers digging in to my big, round, fake tits sends me over the edge.

I'm the kind of person who will go to great lengths to avoid embarassment most of the time, so being able to give in and experience something that I've spent a lot of energy worrying about is wonderfully liberating for me.

[jennjenn]

you can call me a dirty little slut and i'll just get wet. call me ugly and i'll go after you tooth and nail.~ smiles this actually made me burst into a fit of giggles. I think more submissive women enjoy humil than would admit. For me personally, to even admit to people that i enjoy to be humiliated if difficult. Its a terrible word do not you think. If you look around this forum there have been several women who have come forward and said oh i like this but not this.. i agree it becomes what is within you limits of humiliation. I personally don't like any comment that is meant to be mean. I once asked someone why he thought i may enjoy ..something.. and he simply stated that i enjoyed it because i was a slut. Just as though sitting around the table he announced the bread was brown. It was not meant rudely ..just a matter of fact and i was quite taken aback by this response unsure of what to make of it. I decided that it was quite within our relationship to say that. I am in agreeance however about the attack on ones intelligence. I do not enjoy mean people. That seems to be the hardest lines for a female submissive given the responses on this thread. Do not belittle our intelligence. Any theories why that seems to be an unapproachable limit? Very insightful comments ... i have enjoyed this thread. =)

[Hime]

you can call me a dirty little slut and i'll just get wet. call me ugly and i'll go after you tooth and nail.~ smiles this actually made me burst into a fit of giggles. I think more submissive women enjoy humil than would admit. For me personally, to even admit to people that i enjoy to be humiliated if difficult. Its a terrible word do not you think. If you look around this forum there have been several women who have come forward and said oh i like this but not this.. i agree it becomes what is within you limits of humiliation. I personally don't like any comment that is meant to be mean. I once asked someone why he thought i may enjoy ..something.. and he simply stated that i enjoyed it because i was a slut. Just as though sitting around the table he announced the bread was brown. It was not meant rudely ..just a matter of fact and i was quite taken aback by this response unsure of what to make of it. I decided that it was quite within our relationship to say that. I am in agreeance however about the attack on ones intelligence. I do not enjoy mean people. That seems to be the hardest lines for a female submissive given the responses on this thread. Do not belittle our intelligence. Any theories why that seems to be an unapproachable limit? Very insightful comments ... i have enjoyed this thread. =)

Yeah, you're right. Comments about my body, calling me slut, etc don't bother me, but insulting my intelligence would definitely be over the line. I guess it just depends on what's more important to the people in question, but to me, my intelligence is definitely more important.

[TomOfSweden]

..something.. and he simply stated that i enjoyed it because i was a slut.

I'd just like to point out that all people are sluts at heart. "Slut" is just another word for someone who is sexualy emancipated. There's no shame in being horny, which is the whole basis for the word "slut". I still like saying it to my slave though.

I think you enjoy it because it has a negative connotation, no matter how nonsensical it is.

[usafmedic22]

Wow....this thread is awesome...thank you Psynymph. I know we've had a little of this discussion, but I figured I'd throw my 2 pennies in as a newbie. When humiliation was first mentioned to me... I was like "oh hell no". And this is still a very confusing subject for me. For example...I view a collar as very rewarding. It to me is close to the symbolism of a wedding band. I think it would even be a little more intense for me...because a collar would be the ultimate symbol of my submission, whereas a wedding band to me is more of a symbol of a partnership. So no, a collar is no where near humiliation for me. But get this....yall are going to think I'm nuts.....I can't stand leashes. The idea of someone using one on me was mentioned the other night by my Trainer. I hated the idea. To me it insulted my intelligence, which seems to be a common no no among subs judging by the thread comments. I use a leash when I'm training shelter dogs, basic obedience to help them get adopted. I use it because my ultimate goal would be to be able to control them in almost any situation without the leash. But you've got to start somewhere. So why can't I make the same association with a leash being used to train me? Because to me, I'm way more intelligent than a dog, and if you force me to do something, well that's not much of an accomplishment at all, you're using your strength to overpower my will. However, if you tell me to do something that you know I might hesitate to do....and I do it anyway, you've conquered my mind, which is a true accomplishment. So to me, using a leash to control me is an insult to my intelligence, and therefore humiliation.
As far as words go...I'm unusual in that respect to I suppose. Girl is fine, pet is great (although I've been told all these terms are different, and being a pet is difficult, etc), but do not call me a cunt. To me, that word is just insulting. It's like calling me fat and ugly, just don't do it. I have no idea why, maybe it's society's connotation of it's meaning, I dunno, but calling me a cunt would make the hairs stand up on my neck and you're liable to see claws. I've been told that "Sometimes you need to see beyond the words....understand the meaning" But call me weird, sometimes there are just words that make me defensive.
I could get into my view on spanking as well...but I'm hoping that will change once I experience it in real life...so I'll shut up now.
Thank you to all that have contributed so far...this is a very thought provoking subject for me now...I'll be watching this thread so feel free to respond to my quirkiness....
Take care all...

[Guest 91108]

Smiles .. i hope a certain someone reads this thread ... soon. smiles.

[orchidsoul]

Interesting thread, Psynymph!

I have a hard time rationalizing humiliation in my mind because the word has an inherent negative connotation, yet I like it! A conundrum for sure. A while back whilst discussing this topic with others, a different definition was offered that I really like...

we called humiliation "pleasantly embarrassing".

As far as my likes in humiliation go, I would say if I can define it as "pleasantly embarrassing", it's all good. Of course, just because it's pleasant, doesn't mean it's going to be easy... but what would be embarrassing if I didn't have a blush or hesitation?

[Stone]

Me as a male dom have no opinion on what male subs want. i do not understand male subs in the first place and really dont want too

[wolfs_lilgirl]

the word humiliation gets me very wet lol

[Ozme52]

the word humiliation gets me very wet lol

"Humiliation!!"

[Rel]

I find this very interesting, especially because I just told a potential Master that humiliation was a big NO. Then I read this thread and realized that some of the things I automatically do or am really interested in exploring, others find humiliating. I guess this is another of those things that go on the "to be explored" list.

Personally I would have a hard time with someone insulting my intelligence, and personal beliefs but wouldn't necessarily fight back...I'm more apt to just edge back from that person for a while. If someone insults my body, my looks, etc. I tend to end up in tears but that's a result of years of being told I'm just not good looking and that no one could find me attractive at my size etc.

Words are more degrading than humiliating for me. Actions just squick me more than anything (for example - the idea of a Master leading me around on a leash to show me off because he's proud of me...instant squick).