Broken Promises-- Honorable?

[~minx~]

What do you do when a master promises to reimburse you for a cost incurred at his request, then not only fails to repay, but also refuses to even respond to polite requests?

Does anyone have any suggestions? - what is the best way to ask for monies back, and should I expect to get it back? Am i asking too much to be reimbursed?

i wonder also...since this master has always proclaimed himself as "Honorable"... if this bothers him in the least?

[Alex Bragi]

Well, minx, if it was for a large amount, let's say an airfare, *ss* then I think you should be demanding it, rather than making 'polite requests'.

I'm not sure how you stand legally, but I think possibly you may have a case if you could prove you gained no benefit from said costs incurred (at his request). Otherwise, I guess you just have to put it down to a lesson in life.

And, yes, I agree it's very disappointing to be let down like this by a man professing to be, as you say, "honorable".

Does it bother him? I would hope it would, enough so for him to do the honorable thing by you.

[thrall]

Test of honor indeed…….

Yes I have been asked to purchase things form time to time but nothing terribly expensive. If something comes up that will be on the costly side….it is purchase for me and sent to me………

It is not wrong to ask for the money for your purchases on his behalf.

I have never been left holding the bag if that is what you are asking. This is something you have to gain trust with. Were you covered with small things and can you trust your Master with bigger things? I can.

That being said……..its along the lines of lending money to friends or family. Ever tried to get that back? Its uncomfortable to ask…..and they look at you as if you asked for their left kidney!

It reminds me of the cartoon Popeye. Remember Wimpy? He was always asking for money for hamburgers that he would gladly repay on Tuesday.

[Whippett]

Interesting question minx. I make big purchases for my girls. I might ask them to front minor costs if the cost of me sending the item is higher than the value of the item. But big ticket items? No - I cover those myself.

My girl rosebud is coming to see me, for example. I bought her ticket and sent it to her. I'd never dream of asking a girl to cover that large a cost herself. And in this case - because of the border crossing - I did ask her to look into getting the ticket at her end - and would have wired her the money - but it was cheaper for me to book from my end. There werre hurdles to jump because I was buying a 3rd party ticket that involved an international border crossing - but it can be done, and I did it. She has her ticket - and will be here soon.

The extra effort was no big deal - my girl's worth it!

[jeanne]

First - yes, you should be reimbursed.
Second - unfortunately, you may not be.
Third - have you tried asking for a potential expected date for reimbursement, or asking if there's a financial issue right now that prevents reimbursement?

Good luck, minx.

[Tojo]

Generally you'd write a letter & send it via snail mail, stating your case & asking for a reply within say 14 or 30 days.

Keep a copy & if you don't hear back, try Consumer Affairs, or whatever they're called there.

Frankly, if you don't have something in writing, you're probably up the creek- as thrall says, it's a test of honour.

BTW- Good siggy minx

[Warbaby1943]

Wish this were a perfect world where everyone did as expected and right but it isn't. You are definitely entitled to reimbursement in my opinion but that accounts for nothing. I think you have learned a costly lesson and I feel badly for you. Honorable doesn't seem to mean what it once did.

The old saying is true, We are too soon old and too late smart. I know you will learn from this and be careful when choosing another Master but it was costly not only monetarily. Let's just hope something positive comes from all of this.

[lily27]

Do I think it's right? No.
Do I think it's honourable? No.
Do I think you are out of luck? Probably so.

I always live by the standard to never lend money that you can't afford to lose. Buying something for someone would fall into this category as well.

If this "master" is unwilling to stand up and do the right thing, I suspectyou are probably just going to have to chalk it up as a learning experience.

[icey]

was it an actual promise? or an i'll help you out type thing? if it's an actual promise then in my personal opinion yes it should be honoured particularly if he is in a better financial position than you.

its a shame because often when r/ships end things can become bitter and people think what the hell he said this she did that,he's got this, she owes me that! etc and promises and the like can easily fly out of the window

im not saying it's right but we're only human after all and we're all likely to go back on our word at one time or another whether we like to think we will or not, and if your ex Master should happen to be feeling a little of that right now then maybe it's worth waiting a while until things cool down?

either that or dont be quite as subtle and polite and point out that as he has always being proud to consider himself honourable and a man of his word that maybe he might wish to live up to the standards he has set for himself!

[~minx~]

Many thanks to You all for the replies....Indeed, a lesson has been learned in all of this! i did trust this person at the time and it is diappointing! i was and am still hoping that he does the right thing, if not, so be it...

right now, what i'm really hoping for is that maybe, he sees this and is able to admit to himself that he's done wrong and also, to those who know who he is, perhaps, his claims of being honorable, in the past threads and posts will not hold such credibility or truth as before!

And, yes, I agree it's very disappointing to be let down like this by a man professing to be, as you say, "honorable".

Does it bother him? I would hope it would, enough so for him to do the honorable thing by you.

Alex, as always Your opinions and thoughts hold a wisdom, i would love to have and hope to gain without disappointments in obtaining...thx, so much!

It reminds me of the cartoon Popeye. Remember Wimpy? He was always asking for money for hamburgers that he would gladly repay on Tuesday.

lol...oh my...love Your humor and will most likely see him and this in a whole new way!!
kisses to you!

Interesting question minx. I make big purchases for my girls. I might ask them to front minor costs if the cost of me sending the item is higher than the value of the item. But big ticket items? No - I cover those myself.

The extra effort was no big deal - my girl's worth it!

Your girl is very lucky and one can only hope, your ways are lessons learned by others!! Thx! kisses and hugs!

First - yes, you should be reimbursed.
Second - unfortunately, you may not be.
Third - have you tried asking for a potential expected date for reimbursement, or asking if there's a financial issue right now that prevents reimbursement?

Good luck, minx.

Yes, to the third statement, except that, he has not responded to make me aware of any issues...and if that is the case and he should let me know, i will be happy to work out something with him!

Frankly, if you don't have something in writing, you're probably up the creek- as thrall says, it's a test of honour.

BTW- Good siggy minx

Hi Tojo, it is in writng hun, in the last email he sent to me, it is promised! BTW- glad you like siggy...hugs to you hun and thx!

Wish this were a perfect world where everyone did as expected and right but it isn't. You are definitely entitled to reimbursement in my opinion but that accounts for nothing. I think you have learned a costly lesson and I feel badly for you. Honorable doesn't seem to mean what it once did.

The old saying is true, We are too soon old and too late smart. I know you will learn from this and be careful when choosing another Master but it was costly not only monetarily. Let's just hope something positive comes from all of this.

WB, you are very dear to me and i highly admire and respect you! You are very wise and have helped me a great deal...many can learn from you and Whippett and i hope they do....only thinking positive, now and smiling! Thx hon!

Long story short? You got taken, plain & simple. Lick your wounds, and move forward... and in the future... remember this experience...

Good luck ~minx~

Thx delia....big hugs! i am moving on, stronger and wiser than before and holding on to your well wishes of good luck!

I always live by the standard to never lend money that you can't afford to lose. Buying something for someone would fall into this category as well.

If this "master" is unwilling to stand up and do the right thing, I suspectyou are probably just going to have to chalk it up as a learning experience.

Thx lily...i have learned well the hard way and my eyes have been opened....it won't happen again, that's for sure!! hugs!

[annie]

right now, what i'm really hoping for is that maybe, he sees this and is able to admit to himself that he's done wrong and also, to those who know who he is, perhaps, his claims of being honorable, in the past threads and posts will not hold such credibility or truth as before!

Honestly, from this statement here... I now question your honor as much as I would question his. This is a personal issue, just as several of your posts have been, and I fail to understand why you feel it necessary to continue to air your dirty laundry in a public format.

This also leads me to believe this is more then about money. Just a guess here that you are hurt and you are wanting to get even. But your dragging it across the forums won't do anything to change it. All you are trying to do is form "sides" and that is lacking in honor as well, IMO.

I'm sorry if you were hurt, but please don't continue to drag the laundry through the forums... If I wanted to deal with other's laundry I would clean my kids rooms!

[Whippett]

Honestly, from this statement here... I now question your honor as much as I would question his. This is a personal issue, just as several of your posts have been, and I fail to understand why you feel it necessary to continue to air your dirty laundry in a public format.

This also leads me to believe this is more then about money. Just a guess here that you are hurt and you are wanting to get even. But your dragging it across the forums won't do anything to change it. All you are trying to do is form "sides" and that is lacking in honor as well, IMO.

I'm sorry if you were hurt, but please don't continue to drag the laundry through the forums... If I wanted to deal with other's laundry I would clean my kids rooms!

Interesting comments annie. So it's not permissible, in your book, to ask for advice if the person involved is known to the questioner? If that's the case we may as well all stop posting.

The question, in my estimation, is a valid one. minx obviously has an issue of unpaid costs from someone, and has tried to contact the person. Seems to me, asking for advice when the matter isn't resolved, and the debtor is not answering is a perfectly valid thing to bring up.

Questioning minx's honour strikes me as a bit below the belt. It is obvious that she has been treated without honour if a debt is owed, payment promised and not delivered. The lack of honour here rests solely on the shoulders of the 'master' who abused trust.

If this matter bothers you so much, perhaps you should just refrain from reading about it.

[~minx~]

Thank You Whippett so much...You took the words right out of my mouth and saved me the energy of posting, in doing so....lol... Big hugs and Kisses!!

[TomOfSweden]

Replace "Master" with "somebody" and all will be clear. I don't see why the situation in the BDSM world should be any different than in any other world.

In every relationship the money situation should eventually always be adressed. Until it has been I'd say that the assumption should always be that the money is separate. ie, Who ever wanted "it" should pay for it. Since you obviously hadn't negotiated the money bit he should cough up the dough. If he doesn't I suggest telling him to politely "fuck off". Parasite boyfriends come in many guises.

I have total controll over my slaves assets.. and life. But this was thoroughly negotiated with clear pull out clouses if either party wants to break up. As soon as money is involved trust dries up pretty fast. BDSM is an adult activity, and with adult life comes plenty of boring bits that cannot be avoided if we want to keep ourselves from sticky situations in the future.

[Warbaby1943]

Interesting comments annie. So it's not permissible, in your book, to ask for advice if the person involved is known to the questioner? If that's the case we may as well all stop posting.

The question, in my estimation, is a valid one. minx obviously has an issue of unpaid costs from someone, and has tried to contact the person. Seems to me, asking for advice when the matter isn't resolved, and the debtor is not answering is a perfectly valid thing to bring up.

Questioning minx's honour strikes me as a bit below the belt. It is obvious that she has been treated without honour if a debt is owed, payment promised and not delivered. The lack of honour here rests solely on the shoulders of the 'master' who abused trust.

If this matter bothers you so much, perhaps you should just refrain from reading about it.

Well said.

[annie]

The question, in my estimation, is a valid one. minx obviously has an issue of unpaid costs from someone, and has tried to contact the person. Seems to me, asking for advice when the matter isn't resolved, and the debtor is not answering is a perfectly valid thing to bring up.

I'm not disagreeing that the question of what to do. On the contrary it is a very valid question and I have no problem with that being posted here. And I hope she received some useful ideas on the topic.

What I AM questioning is the one statement which was highlighted. She just as easily could have asked the question and responded to the answers without airing the personal matters of her private relationship. That is also the point that I start questioning her honor.

We are human, we will view anything from our own perspective but there are always 3 sides to any story... her view point, his view point, and what really happened. Her way of posting about private matters in the relationship, in a round about way, as though almost no one knows who he is, I see as underhanded and backstabbing. So, imo, neither behavior is exactly stellar there. I am an adult and will draw my own conclusions about people based on the behavior they represent.

And trust me... I don't go looking for these threads, after all, that post was about 15 or so posts in and needless to say, up until that comment I felt the thread was very useful, then she made it a personal issue and not just a "what do I do?" question issue.

I won't be back to this thread though I assure you... so feel free to lambaste me as much as you want for having an opinion that isn't going to immediately sympathize with someone who is trying to cause trouble over a personal matter.

[thrall]

Test of honor......test of friendship....test of family ties.....

Everything changes when money is involved. The true character of a person shows very clearly when money is put into the equation.....reguardless of how large or small the sum.


I used the Popeye and Wimpy analogy for a very good reason...Everyone KNEW that Wimpy would never repay the money for the hamburgers......Yet, everyone was more that happy to give him the money needed......WITHOUT the expectation of ever being repaid.


I agree with Delia......the best "revenge" in life is......living well. Living better and happier then ever expected. And finding the honor you so deserve......


Im sorry, Minx, that you may be left holding the bad on this one......I hope you dont and that Honor will still hold the day.....

[gemmy]

ok - easy to put up a post stating vague generalities about this and that calling out or insinuating someone is dishonourable.

Could be he owes her $50.00 - is it really worth whining about? move on

True though, if it is substantial (over $500.00), then yes you could expect it back and likely have a legal stand to do just that, again - move on.

We also don't know the agreement and maybe the purchase was requested as a prelude to something they were both going to do and enjoy - the falling out of the relationship negates it then, doesn't it.

Bottom line - you agreed to purchase it and then things fell through which means things changed and original expectations are no longer in place - only you know the full story but chose to post it vaguely.

A lot of supposition and speculation to make someone look bad *shakes head*.

[Warbaby1943]

I don't think she needed to try hard to make anyone look bad. There is enough of that done without help from anyone.

If the offer to reimburse was made it doesn't matter the amount at all. It could be for only a dollar and that doesn't change the fact that promises were broken, legal or not. To do as was promised would have been the honorable thing regardless of the amount.

Minx you keep a stiff upper lip and don't let any of the bullshit here upset you in the least.

Hugs

[Tojo]

Honestly, from this statement here... I now question your honor as much as I would question his. This is a personal issue, just as several of your posts have been, and I fail to understand why you feel it necessary to continue to air your dirty laundry in a public format.

This also leads me to believe this is more then about money. Just a guess here that you are hurt and you are wanting to get even. But your dragging it across the forums won't do anything to change it. All you are trying to do is form "sides" and that is lacking in honor as well, IMO.

I'm sorry if you were hurt, but please don't continue to drag the laundry through the forums... If I wanted to deal with other's laundry I would clean my kids rooms!

I think even if minx's post had been about airing her 'dirty laundry' she has a right to do so. Should we all keep quiet about having our trust broken by someone, just because they're known to someone else?

Geez that'd be half the posts in the forum!

Good post Whippett.

[Alex Bragi]

I, too, believe minx is entitled to air her problems and ask for advice on this forum. Some people may not agree that she should have posted this particular thread, and they're entitled to that too.

Many dominants take pride in being 'honorable' and are fond of talking about this quality in themselves. The fact that some people here believe they may know the identity of said dominant is immaterial. The facts are that no specific or personal details have been revealed and, as it's already been stated, minx has been rather vague about the facts.

While this obviously isn't a problem exclusive to bdsmers, a dominant will often hold a submissive under a certain amount of duress, so it is a rather interesting topic to discuss regardless of minx's unfortunate situation.

(And, it's too bad Marco the naked dancer isn't still around, he could have given us a full page legal essay on this. *ss*)

[gemmy]

Interesting comments annie. So it's not permissible, in your book, to ask for advice if the person involved is known to the questioner? If that's the case we may as well all stop posting.

The question, in my estimation, is a valid one. minx obviously has an issue of unpaid costs from someone, and has tried to contact the person. Seems to me, asking for advice when the matter isn't resolved, and the debtor is not answering is a perfectly valid thing to bring up.

Questioning minx's honour strikes me as a bit below the belt. It is obvious that she has been treated without honour if a debt is owed, payment promised and not delivered. The lack of honour here rests solely on the shoulders of the 'master' who abused trust.

If this matter bothers you so much, perhaps you should just refrain from reading about it.

The only reason I would see it as lacking class is that it is all one-sided isn't it? We don't know at all if he does or does not owe her money. So it all just looks like an attack on another individual

Alex is right - we all should be allowed to air our problems to get advice and try to see different perspectives - I agree, but when it's singularly put to direct innuendo at another, it's in bad form in my opinion

Granted, I don't know or haven't talked with either of them, I just saw it in bad taste - it could have been posted without the accusation toward another on here is all, as well as it's not her first time trying to, what looks like, poke pins vs trying to actually seek help

Suggesting we shouldn't read it if we don't like it, is of no help at all lol - it's what we do here, read and how do we know if we do or don't like it until we read it

[lily27]

We are all very willing to jump in and tell submissives how bad their relationships are, how stupid their dominants are, and that they should leave immediately as long as people are anonymous. Just because some people "may" know the identity of the dominant in question here, that means minx is no longer entitled to advice?

[MISTRESS H]

What do you do when a master promises to reimburse you for a cost incurred at his request, then not only fails to repay, but also refuses to even respond to polite requests?

Does anyone have any suggestions? - what is the best way to ask for monies back, and should I expect to get it back? Am i asking too much to be reimbursed?

i wonder also...since this master has always proclaimed himself as "Honorable"... if this bothers him in the least?

Not that my words carry any weight, here but if I were in your shoes minx, I would consider the facts, and the outcome and the person that issued the promise to repay. If all is in accord then chalk it up to lessons learned. If not and you regard this as intentional deciet, then take open up the so called master to public ridicule from or by his peers.
:

[sidhewolf]

I think even if minx's post had been about airing her 'dirty laundry' she has a right to do so. Should we all keep quiet about having our trust broken by someone, just because they're known to someone else?

Geez that'd be half the posts in the forum!

Good post Whippett.

Agreed!

Where do you go when you have a problem? To Those you Respect and Trust and wish input from. Many PPL go to Groups They are a part of for this reason.

When there is a breakup of a Relationship and Both Parties are in the same Groups, have the same Friends etc, online or RT or both, are They supposed to "throw out the baby with the bath water" so to speak?

Is it not possible to remain a Friend to Each of Them? Listen to Each of Them? Answer Each of Them? Care for Each of Them? Each Person is still who They are. All that has changed is Their Relationhship status. And yeah, most times there's an aftermath. Why is there such a propensity for picking sides? Why is that even necessary? Why can't PPL just remain the same Friends They were before, and just Learn to care for Each person seperately?

I think in part this is because when there is a breakup it scares PPL, as in *This could be me*. It brings the Truth and Fragilty of Relationship(s) Home. Noone is Guaranteed one more minute with Those They Love and care for, no more than any of Us are Guaranteed one more breath. Things Change, and PPL can Grow in different directions, for whatever reason(s). It's many times not a pleasant process.

We should All be able to speak After, just as Before, in the places We go, with the PPL We talk with. And receive the same Respect, Care, and Advice. Without being slapped, put down, or Judged, for Needing that.

Yeah, it might be "dirty laundry" sometimes. But that's the process of cleaning it up.

Respectfully~SidheWolf