submissive

[subserviant]

I just read a story that described the perfect sub.According to the author ,a dom,that if a sub loved him she would beg him to do her inthe ass then if she truly loved him she would beg him to pull out before he cums and have her finish him oraly ,licking him clean when he finishes.Sounds a bit extreme to me but wonders what others think

[DowntownAmber]

I'm going to go with a bit extreme as well. Sorry, I just don't see the draw to something like that. Of course, I may just be an imperfect sub.

[snowflake]

I'm going to go with a bit extreme as well. Sorry, I just don't see the draw to something like that. Of course, I may just be an imperfect sub.

That makes two of us hun.. i couldn't bring myself to do it...

But there are many other extremes i am willing to do for my Master that others may cringe at

My opinion

hugs
snow

[sisterhoney61 {RW}]

Nope, sorry, not for me. I value my health too much.

[cadence]

I fail to understand why that particular act would deem a submissive perfect?
Maybe in that particular Dominants eyes, this is the perfect submissive, but to others it is not the actions of a perfect submissive.
I don't know myself what a perfect submissive is. I know that sex activities do not make up the key ingredient to what a submissive is.


Then again this goes along the lines of to each his own.

Okay I'm going to out myself now, I have always been uncomfortable with my own kinks and fetishes, because yes I fear that people will judge me.
I am not the perfect submissive, and it's too bad Tourguide wasn't around see me say this, cause he'd be happy I did, but I can do just what was stated above.

I like anal sex a lot, I can easily beg for it. I can go ass to mouth without too much effort on my part, and no I don't always clean first with an enema.
It doesn't make anyone more or less perfect.
To me it's a kinky sexual act that some people can do it and others can't.

[DowntownAmber]

That makes two of us hun.. i couldn't bring myself to do it...

But there are many other extremes i am willing to do for my Master that others may cringe at

My opinion

hugs
snow

Yup, I'm sure J and I make a few people cringe as well, this just seems like, well, okay I'm gonna say it: gross! There are a few things that trip my hygeine trigger and this is one of them.

[thepast]

To each is own... what is extreme to one is completely normal to another... that's why they're called kinks & fetishes and not "BDSM: the only, all-inclusive lifestyle"

[denuseri]

cadence, hugs of support for a fellow ATM sista....blushes terribley

as for perfection issues,, i dont know anyone thats perfect least of all me

i guess it might be like bueaty in the eye of the beholder

[MissElizabeth87]

Well... as a Domme, I'm gonna go with, NO. Granted, I'm female, and if I perform anal sex on my male sub, well... obviously the "penis" in question is not actually going to cum. I absolutely love that Wellbehaved likes to be humilitated if that's what I so desire-but I don't think I'd want to go that far. I don't think he'd like that particular act either.

And as far as I'm concerned-he's the perfect sub for me!

But like many have said, to each his own.

[Rowen]

Okay I'm going to out myself now, I have always been uncomfortable with my own kinks and fetishes, because yes I fear that people will judge me.
I am not the perfect submissive, and it's too bad Tourguide wasn't around see me say this, cause he'd be happy I did, but I can do just what was stated above.

I like anal sex a lot, I can easily beg for it. I can go ass to mouth without too much effort on my part, and no I don't always clean first with an enema.
It doesn't make anyone more or less perfect.
To me it's a kinky sexual act that some people can do it and others can't.

cadence, my respect for your outing. As with many kinks, some love it, some detest it... I am learning that as in any other relationship there are needs to be met, and a good dom will explore that need, push to the limit - but not over it.

As for the health issue..yes, feaces can transfer diseases. But just how about slaves having the time of their live while being gangbanged or whored out? There are still STD's... And the things I see inserted in penises...ouch!! Caning and whipping can go wrong also, wax can burn, ice can freeze, chains and handcuffs can cut and bruise..

What I want to ask here, of all places, is to not condemn of judge someone who has an other kink, even if it is a kink you don't understand. It is hard enough to be considered a "freak" to the vanilla world...don't cast people out here as well.

So, for you, a supportive hug...

[denuseri]

thanku very much for that rowen


hugs and kissess

[Logic1]

That wouldnt be the perfect sub for me cause that just doesnt do it for me but we are all different so perfect for that Dom doesnt mean perfect for somebody else.

[rooshoe]

I absolutely love to swallow cum after being fucked. I also love anal, and in many instances, would love nothing more than to swallow a load of cum after being fucked in the ass. However, i don't because of hygiene reasons.

That being said, i think i understand why the author of the story considered it to be a sign of ultimate submission for her to clean him after being buried in her ass. Anal play in general is quite taboo, so for a sub to not only go with that but do something that is even beyond taboo is, in my opinion, the author's intent.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

I think it is interesting how the origainal intent of the post was lost a bit when the kink in question turned to something less than "acceptable."

The most important phrase in subservant's post was this:

"if she truly loved him she would beg..."

The application or acceptance of a kink has little to do with love. For the author to equate love with a fetish is flawed.

Cadence, for example, is motivated by her cunt. I can make her more willing to perform for me by denying her cunt what it wants. Is that an expression of love? No. But she will obey because she knows her obedience will be rewarded and her cunt will be satisfied.

Does that sound mean? Probably. But it's what she wants. If she didn't, she wouldn't be where she is. She is devoted to me, and she is obedient and loyal. Whether she cleans my cock after it's been in her ass or not doesn't show me that she loves me. The fact that she's here shows me that.


However, to focus on the particular fetish in question for a moment...

I will preface this by saying, from the beginning, that I used to be anti-scat play in its entirety. You can actually read that here, if you so choose.

However, people evolve and things change. One of my favorite saying is thet thing that makes you go "eww" this week might make you go "ooo" next week.

I have become fond of scat play over the last few months. The amount of discipline required to perform the "nastiest of the nasty" simply at the behest of another person is staggering. Let's face it, the act of taking a toy or penis from your own ass, knowing exactly where it's been, and cleaning it with your mouth is definitely not something everyone could do.

Now before you all start joining the "that doesn't make her a better submissive" bandwagon, you're right, it doesn't. It just means she is willing to explore my fetish with me. Being an obedient, disciplined submissive is being an obedient, discipline submissive, no matter what kinks or fetishes are involved. One submissive might show her obedience by kissing her master's feet, another might show hers by fucking animals, yet another might show hers just by kneeling and making herself ready. No one act is greater; they all show devotion, discipline and obedience.

Do I think scat play is "icky?" Yes. Let's face it, it's shit. We've all been taught from the time we were in diapers that shit is nasty. It is. It's smelly, messy and it waste. No one likes waste.

Do I think it's unsafe? That depends. Doing scat play or ATM from your own ass is probably the safest form of play you can do. You're not likely to make yourself sick from something you don't already have in the first place. If you've had hepititis in the past, you might (might) carry it in your feces. However, since you're already a carrier, your own shit isn't going to make you any more a carrier than you already are.

Similarly, I know my medical history. I have never had hep, herpes, etc. I know if I asked to be rimmed by a submissive or whatever, then I'm not likely to infect anyone with anything. The very, very worst thing that might (might) happen is that the submissive in question gets e coli. That can be very nasty; high fever, vomiting, etc.

However, in my exploration of this fetish in my own experimentation, none - not one - of the people I have ever done it with has ever gotten sick. Not one, not once. I recognize that might change any time, but honestly, the amount of time I spend on that particular fetish is so small, the possibility is tiny. It's not like I say "OK I'm done in your ass now clean my cock" every single time I'm there. That would just lose it's effect after awhile. No, it's more like chocolate sprinkles on your chocolate cake. It's best enjoyed sparingly, so the "special" of it doesn't wear off.

And yes, I understand that this fetish isn't for everyone. I'm not going to sit here and tell you to "do ATM or you're not a real submissive." I think that was sort fo the point made my the original debate about the first post made. Personally, I don't see how people can fuck animals. That's just nasty, nasty shit. But that's just my opinion. I'm allowed to have it, and I could be totally wrong. I frequently am anyway.


In conclusion, I would like to say, do what you like. Show your submission in whatever wat works for you. It's your relationship; live it like you want. However, don't condemn others for what they like either. I eat a bunch of bananas a week, but my wife hates them. Do I think she's a sick freak because she won't eat bananas wth me? No. We just like two different things. That's how people work. Woulnd't the world be terribly boring if we all liked the same things?

[ChainsOfGonzo]

*cough* Another ass-to-mouth girl... I have done that, my Master loves it, and by proxy so do I.

But... I don't see how that makes the perfect sub. What if that's not what your Dom wants? Shouldn't being the perfect sub depend on the needs of YOUR particular Master/Mistress?

Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Ozme52]

I just read a story that described the perfect sub.According to the author ,a dom,that if a sub loved him she would beg him to do her inthe ass then if she truly loved him she would beg him to pull out before he cums and have her finish him oraly ,licking him clean when he finishes.Sounds a bit extreme to me but wonders what others think

It's an absolutely wonderful idea. Afterall, that's why we read stories. I also have a fondness for non-consentual sex and mind control stories. Also the occassional tentacle-beastie story.

In reality? That depends solely on the people involved. Regardless of the kink, I would not expect someone to acceed to my wishes without her knowing ahead of time that I had an interest and I knowing ahead of time she had one too. (Except no tentacle beasties... )

If something new comes up, and is discussed, sure. But not out of the blue. And certainly not as a "test" of love or loyalty. There's plenty of that demonstrated without having to exceed the submissive's limits.

[snowflake]

But... I don't see how that makes the perfect sub. What if that's not what your Dom wants? Shouldn't being the perfect sub depend on the needs of YOUR particular Master/Mistress?

Both The Tester` and i agree fully hun.. It is what pleases him and my willingness to do it that would make the perfect sub for him just as it would be for any Dom/me sub/ slave relationship... also keeping in mind if i am the perfect sub to The Tester for what i may do.. doesn't mean i would be the perfect sub for another Dom/me as requirements/limits would be different..

Just our opinion

hugs
snow
&
The Tester`

[Joel Cairo]

The scene described in the first post is an intense turn on for me, but I never required this of my sub because of health reasons. I don't have any strong views on whether it makes for the perfect sub in some general sense. But certainly the willingness to go there is something I highly prize in a sub, although not something I would take advantage of without some health precautions. It's all about the mindset...

Re ass play and health issues more generally: my (now, sadly, ex-) sub was an anal slut. We didn't do ATM (because of health reasons), but we did both do a lot of rimming (or more accurately, anal tongue fucking - she delighted in getting her tongue very deep in my ass), without preliminary enemas or anything, and there were never any health complications.

That being said, maybe we were just foolish and lucky...

[Flaming_Redhead]

I don't think it's extreme, but that's probably because I've done ass to mouth with no ill effects.

I guess I'm not perfect, yet. I've begged for anal, but I haven't begged for ass to mouth.....

*scribbles furiously in my handy-dandy subbie rule book*

[denuseri]

giggles my owner says i am allways begging for it,, even when i dont know i am

[Bratty_Sub]

i wouldnt consider this as bad as some of the things that could be done with the ass (scat). Im not into it what so ever but i think if i were pushed thats as far as that will go...for me.. is ass to mouth no straight out scat. Ive rimmed before but had him make sure it was clean first...he so lovely cleaned it for me at least haha.. wasnt the greatest thing in the world...for me..but at least i tried it and know for sure i dont like it.

[angelic.zest]

ppl who know me, knows that i LOVE anal! *blushes and gigles lightly* anyway...i dont think makes a perfect submissive but if one submissive is willing to do that, then thats great for the dominant, but if another isnt willing to even try it. it doesnt maker that one who wont do it a not so perfect submissive...
its the willingness of the submissive that makes them a good match for their Dominant counterpart.

i do have to say i dont find the act of going form ass to mouth extreme and ive done it and *blushes* would do it again....lol

[Dark_Perversion]

It is not for me to critique a so-called dom for his preferences. Yet, having extensive knowledge and practice in the lifestyle, I would hasten to remind all of one important point. A relationship such as "dom" and "sub" should be founded on trust. The sub must show trust and the dom must be responsible to do nothing which jeopardizes the subs' health and welfare.

True, things do go wrong (not with myself) but that is usually a lack of fore-thought, experience, or just getting caught up in the moment and fogetting caution. However any deliberate activity, and I emphasize any, should be the product of knowledge and understanding of the activities, their action or reaction, and possible consequences.

In my own relationships I actually have a written contract. The do's and don'ts and taboos are written out as well as a "safe word". I never forget that while I am expertly trained, advised and practiced; my sub is in fact the key to my empowerment. I am always cautious, understanding, and considerate. As a Master (I detest using that word to describe myself) I must be responsible !

Each to his own. But again, please exercise good judgement and caution.

With respect,

Dark_Perversion

[subserviant]

*cough* Another ass-to-mouth girl... I have done that, my Master loves it, and by proxy so do I.

But... I don't see how that makes the perfect sub. What if that's not what your Dom wants? Shouldn't being the perfect sub depend on the needs of YOUR particular Master/Mistress?

Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

exactly what the author means,its what the dom wants and in this case perfection is in the eye of the beholder

[leah06]

I agree with the posts suggesting that it is not the content of the fantasy that is important here, but the feelings under it. This sounds to me like a fantasy of testing limits - he imagines a sub who is so devoted to him that she would be willing to beg for something that, in general, is pretty taboo. It's not clear whether he wants her to want it, also, or if part of the pleasure would be in her acting like she wants it when really she doesn't, just to please him.

[painslut4him]

We didn't do ATM (because of health reasons), but we did both do a lot of rimming (or more accurately, anal tongue fucking - she delighted in getting her tongue very deep in my ass), without preliminary enemas or anything, and there were never any health complications.

Forgive this slave for being obtuse, but how is rimming and fucking your ass with her tongue any safer than ATM?

I think it is interesting how the origainal intent of the post was lost a bit when the kink in question turned to something less than "acceptable."

The most important phrase in subservant's post was this:

"if she truly loved him she would beg..."

How true that this is the point of the discussion. This is so similar to what parents warn their teenage girls against. (Those sneaky teenage boys that tell their girlfriends, "If you loved me you would 'do it' with me")

To this slave he actually sounds like a wheedling little teenage boy, trying to coerce something out of someone.

Truly though, no Dom should ever try and manipulate their sub in this manner. If she is against ATM, then she is against it. However, that being said, a Dom should also be able to gently lead their sub down a path of self discovery. If that is not a hard limit of hers, perhaps he should have "softened her up" by having cleansing rituals before play and then introducing her to the idea gradually. Say perhaps an inserted finger that he then touches to her lips?

This slave certainly has no problem with ATM so long as she is clean, but it is understandable to her why others might have issues with it.

[icey]

that might make her the perpect sub in his eyes although i would have thought it would make her his perfect sub in the bedroom we all have our preferences... its a matter of taste and in fairness to him dont all Dom/mes want a sub that will happily and willingly do anything thats asked of them, it would be a dream come true for most!
i cant see how it makes her the perfect sub in general other than that to him personally she's the perfect sub.

find me the perect sub and i'll donate a grand to this site!

[lucy]

find me the perect sub and i'll donate a grand to this site!

i'm really tempted to raise my hand

Joking aside, i think there's no such thing as a perfect sub. Or rather, every sub that works hard on her/his submissiveness and strives toward becoming a "better" submissive is a perfect sub.
In that sense i sometimes get close to perfection. Not too often, though

[~blue~]

As both a sub, and a human being who has been in love before.


I think I can safely say, that what two people consider love, or true DOM/sub relationships, not all will consider the same.


Dependent on how far the relationship is into the activity, some D's can ask their s's to do just about anything, which the s will do. But in other relationships, it may be more for an asthetic value, and control is only limitied to the point of "vanilla" sex.

That doesn't make it any less true love. Just a different kind.



As for the perfect sub part.

Many Dominants do love fully obediant submissives. However, some might cherish a almost completely obediant submissive that they get the chance to "correct" on occassion.

Perfection comes from the view of the individual, not a large group.