On honesty and feminism

[Binder]

Stone'sSlut, Thanks for a most thoughtful post. I really learned something, I enjoy learning. To be honest I almost skipped reading this thread because it deals with feminism. I'm glad I read it, now I know more, and understand more.
One thing I have learned, and keep learning, is what a great community is in BDSM, truly open minded, thoughtful, learning, teaching, non-judging...the list goes on...
Of course there are turds in the BDSM world as there are in the feminism world, but, generally speaking...

[STONE'sSLUT]

Hi, Binder. Thanks for replying. I'm glad you read the post anyway & that you feel like you "walked" away with some different perspectives. I totally agree about the community & the turds

Hi, crikey. Thanks for your thoughts. First, I'd like to opine that graduating & being learned are two different things. Experience outweighs book learning any day, IMO. Second, if anything I may post isn't clear, please feel free to question or ask for clarification - I reiterate my thoughts daily for my students, so no worries there. Third, I don't know that we lack for turds here but I share your sentiment that I'm glad to be here. By the by – LOL – I like that definition (from your third post). Thanks again!

Hello, cheeseburger. Thank for sharing your thoughts. I’m not sure what you mean by “flame wars,” but I hope that doesn’t mean you expect some of your comments to go unaddressed. Now, I agree that feminism is about equality. I think that’s clear in the definition I provided – both from the dictionary & my own thoughts. Where I believe you and I diverge is at the assertion that engaging in a consensual exchange of power somehow makes one partner less than the other, as well as at the point where those living the D/s lifestyle, if they claim to be feminists, are hypocrites (i.e. the comparison to the gay anti-gay preacher). I disagree on both points. At the moment that I submit, or that my husband dominates, does that mean that I am less or he is more able or deserving to participate as an equal voice in government, earn the same rate of pay for the same work, or to be treated with consideration as a peer in the community/society rather than be treated as a weak-minded, inherently unintelligent, eternal child in need of protection? Perhaps some believe that, but that concept is not part of my definition of D/s. Nor do I see any specific sexual predilection as tantamount to living those ideals. Believing, preaching, and living these ideals has nothing to do, IMO, with the fact that I like to be spanked, have my hair pulled, or called his precious little slut. Fact is, we share responsibility and make decisions as equal partners. I see nothing in that which goes against feminism…..perhaps you can clarify on that point. Again, thanks for your thoughts.

Hi, NatalieD. Thanks for replying! Great points – all. (thought I had stated that, too – the word definitely means different things to different people, but thanks for hitting that again – hugs)

Hi, again, Binder! Once again – thank you for sharing your thoughts. Also great points. I’m glad that’s what you walked away with.

Hugs & Spankins & Be Well
SS

[cheeseburger]

What's the opposite of feminisim? I'd say a D/s relationship, where a female is the s and a male is the D comes pretty close.

You have one philosophy which you claim to be a professor of, and the opposite philosophy which you actually practice.

It's a purely academic observation. I'm not suggesting that everyone who holds contradictory views should be jailed or some nonsense.

Read what I write very carefully. I'm not saying I agree (or disagree) with feminism.

I’m not sure what you mean by “flame wars,”

Spend some quality time on urbandictionary.com .

[fantassy]

What's the opposite of feminisim? I'd say a D/s relationship, where a female is the s and a male is the D comes pretty close. So, as long as you agree with that, it should be pretty obvious why you're a hypocrite. You have one philosophy which you claim to be a professor of, and the opposite philosophy which you actually practice.

Just because you say it, doesn't make it so. There is such a huge variety in D/S relationships. that generalization would be extremely narrow-minded even if it were true in some cases. However, I maintain D/S is not the opposite of feminism because even in the most extreme cases, the sub retains the essential right to leave the relationship if the Dom is not behaving in a way that make the sub happy. Feminists fight for women to have the right to make that same decision - to know they have the option to leave and be in total control of their lives if they are not made happy by their situation. As previously stated, feminism is about choices. Moreover, many of us in D/S relationships restrict our D/S to certain areas of life and are in complete control of out lives in other areas. So I give up control in sexual matters, so what? My Dom knows if he doesn't use that control in a way that ultimately pleases me, I will take it back. So how does that make me less of a feminist? I control my finances, my employees, to a certain extent the futures of both my male and female clients, and make all the major decisions affecting my life. The fact that I enjoy being sexually submissive does not make my calling myself a feminist the least bit hypocritical. I both profess and practice feminism in my daily life. Believe me, like any good feminist, I have no problems squashing a male (or female) asshole like a bug when I encounter one.

By the way, isn't calling someone a hypocrite - a flame?

fantassy

[Warbaby1943]

Just because you say it, doesn't make it so. There is such a huge variety in D/S relationships. that generalization would be extremely narrow-minded even if it were true in some cases. However, I maintain D/S is not the opposite of feminism because even in the most extreme cases, the sub retains the essential right to leave the relationship if the Dom is not behaving in a way that make the sub happy. Feminists fight for women to have the right to make that same decision - to know they have the option to leave and be in total control of their lives if they are not made happy by their situation. As previously stated, feminism is about choices. Moreover, many of us in D/S relationships restrict our D/S to certain areas of life and are in complete control of out lives in other areas. So I give up control in sexual matters, so what? My Dom knows if he doesn't use that control in a way that ultimately pleases me, I will take it back. So how does that make me less of a feminist? I control my finances, my employees, to a certain extent the futures of both my male and female clients, and make all the major decisions affecting my life. The fact that I enjoy being sexually submissive does not make my calling myself a feminist the least bit hypocritical. I both profess and practice feminism in my daily life. Believe me, like any good feminist, I have no problems squashing a male (or female) asshole like a bug when I encounter one.

By the way, isn't calling someone a hypocrite - a flame?

fantassy

Amen, fantassy.

I have always loved your posts. You always make so much sense but maybe that is because I agree with you.

[gloombunny]

What's the opposite of feminisim? I'd say a D/s relationship, where a female is the s and a male is the D comes pretty close.

A consensual relationship, with openly negotiated and voluntarily assumed roles, is close to the opposite of a philosophy born in large part as a reaction to a cultural legacy of imposed powerlessness and forced assumption of unwanted roles?

It's a purely academic observation. I'm not suggesting that everyone who holds contradictory views should be jailed or some nonsense.

Read what I write very carefully. I'm not saying I agree (or disagree) with feminism.

Do these disclaimers ever actually convince anyone?

[STONE'sSLUT]

Hello, cheeseburger. First, I’d like to thank you again for sharing your thoughts. I always appreciate different perspectives – even if I don’t agree with them. Second, I have been to urbandictionary.com before. A purely academic observation: it’s an amusing collection of user-submitted explanations of slang words & invented terminology, as well as opinion-based, sometimes hilarious definitions for real words (often with just a pinch of sarcasm & even smaller amounts of evidence to back them up). I opt to rely on the actual dictionary for my definitions, but thanks all the same for the recommendation. Third, the opposite of feminism (humanism? lol thanks, crikey ) is sexism, which I don’t think has any place in D/s. Nor do I ascribe to a single bit of sexism, both professing & living the opposite. (Wonder what that makes me….beyond being a hypocrite, of course.) Perhaps some include it in their lifestyle, but it is not a part of mine. So said, I think I should do three things at this point:

1) clarify that I did not mean to imply that I fathom your position on feminism. If anything I’ve posted seems to indicate that, I apologize. And just to let you know, I read each post carefully, so please rest assured that I am reading yours with the same attentiveness.

2) take full responsibility for not recognizing that my several years of study, my 4 degrees in the History of Women & the Psychology of Prejudice, my work to further women’s rights in my daily life (not only through my job as an educator, but also through community activism), my time living in a real-life D/s relationship with tons of research & careful consideration helping us along – oh, & my being a woman living in our male privileged patriarchy (all of which have led me to develop my very own little thoughts & opinions) - cannot possibly compare to the vast experience & obvious breadth of expertise of some others here (such as yourself), both on “feminism & D/s” & on my beliefs/convictions vs. my lifestyle, built on respected resources like the less than 10 posts of consequence that I’ve made on this forum outside the “Fun & Games” section &, undoubtedly, the ever-reliable urbandictionary.com. Again – very sorry. I’ll be sure to remember that the next time I misguidedly post anything that challenges such unmistakably superior astuteness on topics such as these.

3) offer that the best course is often to simply agree to disagree. For example, I see neither of us convincing the other of our position on this topic and so think that it’s probably a waste of time for either of us to continue down this path. Agreed? Great!

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!

Hello, Fantassy – Thanks for posting! Great points – especially about restricting D/s to certain portions of our lives. Sounds very much like my own relationship. Oh, and the squashing of assholes Wonderful post. Hugs!

Hi, Warbaby! Thanks for the PM, by the by, and I agree with you – having read a number of Fantassy’s posts, I almost always think they are spot-on. Hugs

Hi, Mothbrad. Excellent examples. And, sadly, you could go on….and on….and on. It’s a shame there are so many examples out there. Wonderful point, as well, on fantasy vs. D/s relationships.

Hello, my king – all I have to say to your post is: indeed. Love you.

Hi, baby girl. Thanks for keeping an eye on this thread. It is appreciated! I was wondering: if things should get out of hand at any point (which I REALLY hope doesn’t happen since I, too, am enjoying this discussion & wish for it to continue in a civil and adult manner) – you might be able to delete any flaming posts rather than shutting down the thread? It’s exceedingly interesting to see so many points of view with such great communication on topics of this nature & I’d hate to see it stop over something like that. Anyhoo – thanks again & keep up the good work!

Hi, NatalieD – excellent question! As to your second question…my opinion would be a simple “doubtful.”

Hugs & Spankins!
SS