Does anyone here question BDSM?

[duktig flicka]

Tessa, thank you! I do appreciate your kind thoughts.

Cariad, I would like to talk about exactly that issue. Would you like to discuss it in private? No pressure or anything if you don't want to. Just please let me know if you're interested in talking about it.

TomofSweden, hejsan! Yes. You are right that I have had bad experiences and I am very concerned that they may be the reason I am interested in BDSM. This worry is compounded by all the other BDSM practioneers I've known. I have participated in a few BDSM communities both online and off, and about 80-90% of the subs and maybe 50% of the doms who I have spoken to about the issue are survivors of child abuse.

We know that self-destruction as a result of self hatred exists. We know that Stockholm Syndrome exists. We know that victims of abuse are prone to become "used to" the abuse and expect it or associate it with love. We also know that abuse and extreme insecurities can lead to clinically narcissitic and sadistic behaviour.

I think it would be foolish to deny that some BDSM practioneers will have the issues outlined above. The question that is concerning me is how many? 2%? 25%? 50%? 75%? 100%? Before someone tries to jump in and answer that question as statement of fact, let me please say that I really need a thorough analysis to support such a statement. If someone tells me "I'm mentally healthy and I practice BDSM," it won't convince me simply because anecdotal evidence from someone on the internet who could be anybody is not convincing. In order to answer that question I need either a scientific study or a very well-thought out analysis by someone who demonstrates that they understand something about the psychological, neurological, and sociological issues present.

On a side note, how is BDSM the same as a normal relationship? One is based on inequality while the other is based on equality. I don't see the parallel.

[cariad]

I am very happy to discuss it in private, although the advantage of discussing on the boards is that we potentially benefit from other people's input - but will leave that in your hands. I find this to be a safe place, and one where I am happy to air thoughts which are not always fully acceptable to the main body, because there is atmosphere of acceptance of differences.

On a side note, how is BDSM the same as a normal relationship? One is based on inequality while the other is based on equality. I don't see the parallel.

It is not often that I disagree with anyone as strongly as I disagree with what you have said there.

In my experience both on and offline a BDSM relationship ONLY works if there is a balance of equals. Any imbalance creates a flaw in that relationship, regardless of which way the imbalance lies. I agree that the balance is between two equals and opposites, but they are very equal (said with a guilty apology to my English mistress for the tautology). If his Dominance is greater than my submission, then the door is open for abuse of me, if my submission is greater than his dominance, then I feel like a stranded sub. That is speaking in general terms, the principle continues to work at a more detailed level.

In a non bdsm relationship I believe that the same applies, but because there is not the same degree of interdependence upon each other, the balance is less important.

That takes me round to your initial question about mental health. My unanswered question to myself is, is that level of dependence upon another person healthy. The closest I have come to answering that, and I can find flaws in my own answer, is that if the person is able to live a healthy independent life without their bdsm partner, but find that the quality is enhanced by doing so, then it is a healthy relationship. If however they are not able to do that, then perhaps the bdsm relationship is masking a health issue which needs exploring.

cariad

[TomOfSweden]

ok, what if a person who has been the victim of abuse and looks for aspects of that abuse and in some ways a continuation of it in a future spouse. So what? If it makes you happy, why not? Love is an all internal feeling. No matter if you've got a boyfreind or not, it's all happening in your head. If not having it makes you feel like you're missing something...you're not exactly comming out on top are you?

On a side note, how is BDSM the same as a normal relationship? One is based on inequality while the other is based on equality. I don't see the parallel.

I've got issues with almost every syllable in this.

First off. It's normal that women are opressed. So much for normal relationships being equal. Even in the west women have the short end of the stick in almost every concievable way, no matter how you measure.

Equality is a mythical animal I think we've yet to see in life. Nothing is equal.

Based on inequality? My slave gets hers. I'm certain of that. Being an obedient slave and living for her Master is actually what she wants in life. Her needs are being fullfilled. What more could she ask for?

My slave is sitting next to me right now, and burst out into this, "Why would I want to live in an inequal relationship? That's just stupid. I'm not."

I think the error in your thought is this: You seem to think a healthy human is a supremely logical and rational being. When the truth is nobody is. It's some kind of Rosseauist-Spinozist residue in thinking that just isn't true. There isn't a healthy human emotional equilibrium. A person in harmony. A human like that have never existed.

But this discussion is likely to be quite one sided since the people who don't think the BDSM life-style is healthy, would off-course not be on this forum at all. So don't be sad if you few of us agree with you.

edit: And as far as abuse goes. I'll bet you lots of money you'll never ever find a person who has never been abused. Last year the Swedish govornement did a survey on sexual abuse on teenagers. They found that 100% of all eighteen year old girls in Sweden had been the victim of sexual abuse at least once. And this is Sweden. Land of equality. Have practitioners of BDSM been more of victims than others? Who knows?

[Hime]

Dude, I'm going to grad school for rhetoric next year -- I question EVERYTHING!

And yeah, I have thought about the unhealthy side of this lifestyle too. I know that some of my submissive feelings, for instance, are rooted in my less-than-perfect relationship with my father. My dad and I love each other, but he has always had impossibly high expectations and I've always felt like I'm not good enough because I can't live up to them.

I have thought a lot about this, talked about it with a therapist, etc. In the end, I know that my parents will love me even if I don't get my PhD at 24 and go on to win a Nobel prize, and I try to relate to them in a healthy way and be grateful that I have loving parents who really care about my life. That's all I can do about that issue, as far as I'm concerned. I may not be 100% healthy, but I am doing my best.

Meanwhile, being in a D/s relationship helps me deal with feelings of inadequacy and guilt by constantly reassuring me that even if I do something wrong or need to be punished, I will still always be loved and admired. It helps me remember that making a mistake isn't the end of the world. So even while it comes out of an unhealthy situation, I think that this is a healthy way to make the best of it.

[Warbaby1943]

[b]
On a side note, how is BDSM the same as a normal relationship? One is based on inequality while the other is based on equality. I don't see the parallel.

If cariad first followed by others hadn't disagreed with this statement I sure would have. It is so far from being the truth in every good relationship that I am aware of here in this community. I think that has sufficiently been pointed though.

As far as being a product of an abusive environment goes that is not the case with me or my sub. Yet we still enjoy the benefit we reap from our BDSM activities.

[nk_lion]

Duktig, thank you for bringing this topic up. Even though I figured a lot out on the boards, this one really hit the nail with some lingering questions.

Initially, when I started lurking in these boards, I realised that the subs were more then happy being in a D/s relationship. To some it was erotic/exciting, to others, it provided a neat structure with strict guidelines in their life.

But I still never completely understood why. Why would someone endure certain things like spanking or humiliation. At this point, I knew I was really interested in BDSM, but had no interest in being a sub, as well, I wasn't comfortable taking complete charge of someone else like the doms on these boards. Later I realised I am probably a switch, and most if not all questions I had about D/s relationships made a lot more sense.

So to give you a perspective on relationships on both sides from the same peron, I can tell you that on certain times, I love to be able to give away power to someone else, and on during other time, having someone else under my control. It's an undescribable feeling.

On a side note, how is BDSM the same as a normal relationship? One is based on inequality while the other is based on equality. I don't see the parallel.

I get where you're coming from, but it would come down to what is equality specifically mean for someone. I'm sure that someone in a vanilla relationship would think that some subs here have completely given up certain rights as a human. But while there might be an absence of certain 'equalities' like final say on decisions, etc. it is replaced by completely adoration of doms to their sub, and amazing trust.