Nine Levels of Submission

[Kuronue]

Much love to Rhabbi for posting this. Whether we agree with it or not (and there do seem to be some issues), it's a good launching point for a definitive answer. It's just needs some expansion.

Actually, I am very grateful for this post. *bows before the almighty Rhabbi* My pet and I had just been talking about how I needed to know that this was definitely the lifestyle he wanted (he's been saying "yes" the whole time, but I keep making sure). Then this list came up, and we sat down and read it... and discovered that while I thought he was at one stage, he said he was a completely different one! Imagine our surprise. A late-night discussion, a discovery of one of Sir_Russell's posts (his checklists), and some tickling later, we've gotten everything settled and worked out, and we're happy as ever.

As for the post and the classifications, it seems to me that with a bit of imagination and taking them at their BROADEST range, they might be semi-applicable. Ignore what doesn't suit your lifestyle, have a discussioon about it with your sub, and for fun, edit the list to your heart's content. Heck, post the revisions here and let's see if we can't get something better going.

Best wishes, all!

[Rhabbi]

Much love to Rhabbi for posting this. Whether we agree with it or not (and there do seem to be some issues), it's a good launching point for a definitive answer. It's just needs some expansion.

Actually, I am very grateful for this post. *bows before the almighty Rhabbi* My pet and I had just been talking about how I needed to know that this was definitely the lifestyle he wanted (he's been saying "yes" the whole time, but I keep making sure). Then this list came up, and we sat down and read it... and discovered that while I thought he was at one stage, he said he was a completely different one! Imagine our surprise. A late-night discussion, a discovery of one of Sir_Russell's posts (his checklists), and some tickling later, we've gotten everything settled and worked out, and we're happy as ever.

As for the post and the classifications, it seems to me that with a bit of imagination and taking them at their BROADEST range, they might be semi-applicable. Ignore what doesn't suit your lifestyle, have a discussioon about it with your sub, and for fun, edit the list to your heart's content. Heck, post the revisions here and let's see if we can't get something better going.

Best wishes, all!

First, congratulations on the next step in your realtionship.

And I agree, if anyone thinks thaey can do better at this, lets give it a shot and see if we can end up with something definative that will actually work.

[gloombunny]

something definitive that will actually work.

I'm pretty sure this is a contradiction.

[Dragon's muse]

And I agree, if anyone thinks thaey can do better at this, lets give it a shot and see if we can end up with something definative that will actually work.

i would not even venture a try at coming up with definite terms for anyone's relationship but mine. Every relationship is different and their parameters for submission are fluid. i am not sure it is possible to come up with definitions that would fit the vast spectrum of people that do what it is that we do.

As always, just my tuppence.

rose

[gagged_Louise]

Yes, I'm in with you Muse that there's no single definition (any more than there's a clear definition of "hetero vanilla sex") only I don't think that's the intention of the writer, nor the point of Rhabbi in posting this. To my mind, it works as a starting-point to try and gauge: what's my turn-on in this? How far do we really want to go, now or in the near future? If one is on a high and having a great time, bound, gagged and totally turned on, yeah right often one will feel "I'll do absolutely anything for this guy, serve Him in anything..." without really meaning it full-on perhaps (if your Master grew mentally ill, though stiil undiagnosed, what then?)

You know as well as I do people in the BDSM community make very different use of words like slave or owned: to some it implies total. live-in control and basically no limits (no other conditions), to others it's something that really demands an on-going consensual factor, checked tightly: the slave may be pushed, whipped, used, but can't really be regarded as mute dumb property. I don't think either of us would buy the view that to be a slave you have to give up évery right to object to your Dom/me, to keep any limits, or to have a life outside of your slave service (and btw I think the point where the author of the document above says the traditional housewife role "basically equalled a sex slave" - because rape within marriage was not recognized and the wife worked at home? - is really misleading; she's relying on radical lesbian polemics against the traditional family here).

It works as a sort of white paper to get down to see some of the patchwork of things you're into and what might be coming next. Being a branded slave with long experience you clearly don't have much need for this kind of thing, I feel it clearly needs to be worked over a bit too, but it seems a useful discussion to me.