Tom,

Yes, the argument is not at all rational as Jeanne and TG have explained. I want to support TG's assesment too, I appreciate the citizens of other countries looking at us as well. We HAVE gotten (and probably in some ways alway have been) really unwilling to look at what other people think of us. And we have become rather more arrogant and bullyish about our nation.

My brother and his wife are Christian Conservatives. Now I will preface this with saying thay try to be loving people and as non-judgmental as they can so I feel they are trying. They have told me when I express to them that the one verse of the Bible I adhere to is "God is Love," with a dash of "Jedge Not Lest Ye Also Be Judged" they have told me that you have to take the work as a whole.

However they do not practice what they preach. There are just a couple of verses that even mention homosexuality in the Bible and they are used to justify a whole truckload of "sins" in my book. They also comfort themselves with the justification that they don't hate Homosexuals, No, they are taught to Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin (Stupidity!). To me Hate is Hate is HAte.

They refuse to listen to science (in O so many ways) and conclude that being Homosexual is a "choice."

I believe the late Jerry Falwell started a lot of this. He wanted to politicize religion and get Christians involved in making their sick judgmental dangerous brand of Christianity the only possible religion in the U.S. (They DO not believe in Freedomof Religion, no matter what they say. Jeanne expressed their views very well).

They say that this nation was formed as a Christian Nation (untrue, the founding fathers were very secular).

They feel our problems stem from pulling away from God (I think they are from many different things and most of them Republican, COnservative and their brand of Christian ideals)

Also Falwell was a Televangelist. These folks used their sermons not so much to preach an idealogy but to get money given to them by their parrishioners, they have always cared for money over religion. These same techniques have been used to politicize their brand of religious politics and attempt to turn the U.S. into a Theocracy as restrictive and damaging as what the Taliban.

(Sorry got carried away again. And these are my humble opinions from my own research and anecdotal evidence.)

Thanks Tom for bringing up the discussion. And TG and Jeanne, great posts.