Well, I did TRY to get the thread back on topic!!

Although, Hemlock's thoughts are relevant (although they do not offer direct and specific advice to the lady who asked the question).

I agree with at least parts of Hemlock's post. One may shudder at the thought of disapproval, failure, etc - but you also need genuine and true feedback. A sub does require training, and the dominant for that needs to be ready to tell them when they are failing.

I do not see that as incompatible with a loving relationship, however. In a D/s relationship, to submit - and be trained - is to love; to dominate - and train - is to love. Each person in that relationship (or more, if there be more) needs either to dominate or submit; therefore, not to provide that correctly and as fully as possibly, is not fulfilling ones partner.

I also understand and appreciate that it is perfectly possible to be trained by someone with whom one does not have a loving relationship. And I can see that in some ways this would be easier, clearer cut, if you like.

It is extremely difficult for anyone to learn - to dominate, or to submit - whilst also trying to maintain a 'normal' 24/7 loving relationship. Even for those who have much experience, it is not easy. Therefore, in order to learn ones 'trade' as it were, I can see the benefit of specifically undergoing training with someone who is experienced, but with whom one is not emotionally involved.

However - I would not view that relationship as true submission. Because to submit fully, I believe one has to give ones heart as well as one's mind and body.

Now, I have only read H's post once - and it is in the usual obscure vein and tortuous language that I have seen in his other posts. So - H - if I have misunderstood - well, I am an intelligent and educated woman, and one of my main skills is language - English and others. There are various people who have been having some trouble understanding the posts you've made - perhaps you could try to re-write them for us in more day-to-day, clear language? I know you want to communicate with us - it would help us a bit, it would help you a bit.

Thanks.