Out of body religious experiences

[Rhabbi]

The prerogative here is whether you want to lie to yourself of go with 99,999% of all scientists think.

And exactly where did you get that statistic? I can cite numerous scientists who believe in God, either as Christians or Muslims. and I am sure thaere a few who are Hindus also, not to mention the other religions.

I believe that if suicide bombers aren't sure whether they'll get the 72 virgins or not might have helped keeping the New York skyline as it was.

Would it have Tom? If they actually believed that, why didn't they believe the rest of what the Koran teaches? They did not crash those jets into the WTC because of a belief in an afterlife, they did it because they oppose the freedoms we have in the United States. Yet they spent a few months here enjoying the benifits of those freedoms, which they could not get where they were from.

It was not religon that cause 9/11, it was economics and suppression. They resented what we have, and tried to take it away from us. The saddest part is that they have succedded to an extent. We are a country now that is willing to exchange freedom for a sense of security. Makes me want to move to out, but there is no where else to go.

[TomOfSweden]

Would it have Tom? If they actually believed that, why didn't they believe the rest of what the Koran teaches? They did not crash those jets into the WTC because of a belief in an afterlife, they did it because they oppose the freedoms we have in the United States. Yet they spent a few months here enjoying the benifits of those freedoms, which they could not get where they were from.

It was not religon that cause 9/11, it was economics and suppression. They resented what we have, and tried to take it away from us. The saddest part is that they have succedded to an extent. We are a country now that is willing to exchange freedom for a sense of security. Makes me want to move to out, but there is no where else to go.

erm...That's a theory. Considering that Osama Bin Laden held a speech where he addressed just this and denied it. I think it's safe to say that it was an erroneous conclusion of the Bush administration and they where wrong to voice the theory.

According to Osama they attacked USA because they wanted USA and the CIA to stop meddling in the middle-east. This is what he said. It wasn't because they hated US freedom. Osama said that if they hated freedom they would have attacked Sweden. Which to me makes sense. When it comes to laws USA has a lot less freedom than we do. So much for that theory. Why would Al-Qaeda have a problem with US freedom? I don't get it? Have you given this any thought at all?

But that wasn't the issue. The issue was whether or not the suicide bombers thought that the sacrifice was worth it. I would assume that sacrificing yourself for anything becomes a lot less attractive if there's no after-life.

[Rhabbi]

According to Osama they attacked USA because they wanted USA and the CIA to stop meddling in the middle-east. This is what he said. It wasn't because they hated US freedom. Osama said that if they hated freedom they would have attacked Sweden. Which to me makes sense. When it comes to laws USA has a lot less freedom than we do. So much for that theory. Why would Al-Qaeda have a problem with US freedom? I don't get it? Have you given this any thought at all?

Why would they attack Sweden? If they attacked Sweden would they have gotten the public support in the middle east that they did? Of course not. And it is our freedoms that allows us to "interfere" in the Middle East.

On that question, exactly what interference is he talking about? The time we went into the Saudi Arabia at the invitation of his family? And then stayed there at the continued request to monitor the satus of Saddam Hussein? And defend them against the threat that he posed?

[TomOfSweden]

Why would they attack Sweden? If they attacked Sweden would they have gotten the public support in the middle east that they did? Of course not. And it is our freedoms that allows us to "interfere" in the Middle East.

On that question, exactly what interference is he talking about? The time we went into the Saudi Arabia at the invitation of his family? And then stayed there at the continued request to monitor the satus of Saddam Hussein? And defend them against the threat that he posed?

I suggest you read up on US foreign policy history. I don't think that what Al Qaeda is in any way justified, but I have no problems understanding their motivations. Muslims have no problem with the American way of life, wealth or their freedom. Why should they? It makes no sense.

There's a radio show on the BBC that you can download called "Death to America". It deals with all this. Whether or not US intervention in international politics has been good or bad I think we need another thread for, but the fact that they have intervened is undeniable. People always get pissed off when others intervene. Just human nature.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ve/6588603.stm