Pushing Hard Limits

[Hime]

I think it depends on what the definition of "hard" is for a limit.

As an example. I had a horrid experience with tickling. One I will never repeat and so there for, tickling in any form, will ALWAYS be a HARD HARD HARD limit to me, and even with discussion, etc. the chances of that changing are less then 1%.

Have to agree with that -- when someone tickles me, there's a pretty good chance that I will have a hysterical (I hate that word but it's the only way to describe it) laughing fit and be unable to breathe. It's not like, say, being whipped, because even if I manage to choke out a safe word and the tickling stops, the panic from not being able to breathe won't. So no tickling, please.

On the other hand, I have at times rethought what I believed were hard limits, not because my Master pushed me to rethink them, but because our relationship deepened over time and my trust for him grew. I have found myself volunteering to try things that I'd previously refused, out of eagerness to show my devotion and to submit further.

I guess that "true limits" are like "true love" in that you always think that's what you have, but the only way to know for sure is time.

[Flaming_Redhead]

I have at times rethought what I believed were hard limits, not because my Master pushed me to rethink them, but because our relationship deepened over time and my trust for him grew. I have found myself volunteering to try things that I'd previously refused, out of eagerness to show my devotion and to submit further.

It's ok for you to create new limits as the relationship grows. It's NOT ok for a Dom to push hard limits. Hard limits are deal breakers. For instance, one of my hard limits is scat. If I tell VoodooMan NO scat, I expect him to respect that, not wait until I'm tied spreadeagle and take a dump on me anyway. Believe me, the relationship would end right then and there. That's why BDSM checklists, such as the one Sir Russell posted, are such a good idea. It can help you distinguish what is truly a hard limit and what is merely a soft limit in addition to revealing what activities you really enjoy.

[Rhabbi]

On the other hand, I have at times rethought what I believed were hard limits, not because my Master pushed me to rethink them, but because our relationship deepened over time and my trust for him grew. I have found myself volunteering to try things that I'd previously refused, out of eagerness to show my devotion and to submit further.

I guess that "true limits" are like "true love" in that you always think that's what you have, but the only way to know for sure is time.

Excellent way to state the case.

I myself might want to explore a subs hard limits to see where they actually lie, like annie's example of no tickling. What might be ticklish in one place is not ticklish in another, so I would need to know what she thought was ticklish and where. this does not mean I want to tickle her, just that I want to know how to avoid it.

As for Mishka and her desire to push her limits to please me, this does not mean I am free to run roughshod over those limits. I have to be careful and judge her responses as we explore.

[Hime]

Excellent way to state the case.

I myself might want to explore a subs hard limits to see where they actually lie, like annie's example of no tickling. What might be ticklish in one place is not ticklish in another, so I would need to know what she thought was ticklish and where. this does not mean I want to tickle her, just that I want to know how to avoid it.

As for Mishka and her desire to push her limits to please me, this does not mean I am free to run roughshod over those limits. I have to be careful and judge her responses as we explore.

Well, yeah. I hope that I was clear in saying that it's not ok in my book to push for something that's a stated hard limit -- just that the person who has that limit might eventually change their mind.

The other thing that hasn't really been brought up is that Dom/mes have limits, too, and sometimes they can be the subject of the same tension. I think that we subs have to be understanding about those, too. Basically, always remember that the person you're playing with is a person no matter what kind of role they're playing.

[tessa]

Thank you for starting this, cadence. I really wanted this insight for myself.

A great read, every word.

tessa