Parahpilias?

[annie]

This wonderful thread in "BDSM Life" got me to thinking and doing a bit of research.

In a post in that thread I made a reference to this site concerning the "clinical terms" that are made towards many of the things that most of us here consider "normal."

According to this site (one of many) what we enjoy is a "Psychiatric Disorders" in the medical books of today. To be precise it is considered "Paraphilias and Sexual Disorders" and has some defined "Common Characteristics." Here is the definition given:

Paraphilias all have in common distressing and repetitive sexual fantasies, urges, or behaviors. These fantasies, urges, or behaviors must occur for a significant period of time and must interfere with either satisfactory sexual relations or everyday functioning if the diagnosis is to be made. There is also a sense of distress within these individuals. In other words, they typically recognize the symptoms as negatively impacting their life but feel as if they are unable to control them.


THAT definition has so many parts to it that I feel need a challenge I'm not sure where to begin! But, alas I shall try and will drag those of you either interested enough (or bored enough) along with me on this journey of questions...

Paraphilias all have in common distressing and repetitive sexual fantasies, urges, or behaviors.

Do you find your fantasies, urges or behaviors distressing? Did you at one point? Did something change your thought process that resulted in it no longer being distressing? Or better yet, let's ask the question, did you find it more distressing when you were trying to squash and ignore or fantasies, urges, or behaviors or after you finally recognized them and started accepting them?

These fantasies, urges, or behaviors must occur for a significant period of time and must interfere with either satisfactory sexual relations or everyday functioning if the diagnosis is to be made.

The moment I read this I immediately wanted to know what "significant period" was defined as. So, going to the ever faithful Webster's dictionary this is how it was defined from my understanding (combining of course the two different definitions into one) of a noticeably or measurably large amount or portion of time determined by some recurring phenomenon.

I also wanted to know what "satisfactory sexual relations" was defined as. Of course satisfactory was not clearly defined but meant satisfaction or adequate which is defined as sufficient for a specific requirement . Sexual relations was defined as heterosexual intercourse involving penetration of the vagina by the penis or intercourse (as anal or oral intercourse) that does not involve penetration of the vagina by the penis.

What is noticeable or measurable? Does this mean that anyone who has had sexual fantasies of the nature intended here for more then a moment could fall under this category? Who is to be the one to determine what is "sufficient" for my sexual needs? We allow others in society to determine that daily in some ways I'm sure, but how far does it go? Do you think you were personally satisfied sexually before you acknowledged this need? Did that satisfaction only occur after it was acknowledged? Is there a middle ground? Do you see your choice of acknowledging your sexual feelings as interfering with your "everyday functioning" or adding to it?

There is also a sense of distress within these individuals.

As asked earlier are you more distressed now that you have acknowledged the feelings and sought to understand and meet them or less? Is the distress on a sexual basis only or on an overall basis? Did acknowledging them help resolve some other distresses?

In other words, they typically recognize the symptoms as negatively impacting their life but feel as if they are unable to control them.

Do you see them as having a negative impact on your life or enhancing it? Are you unable to control them? Do you want to control them or would you prefer someone else to control them?

Not sure I truly have a point anymore... lol. Other then to say, do you fit in the definition or not? I feel this type of definition is what adds to the closed mindedness of those around us, do you agree or disagree? Basically... what is your feeling about the definition?

On a personal note, the assorted "categories" for this disorder are:
Exhibitionism
Fetishism
Frotteurism
Pedophilia
Sexual Masochism
Sexual Sadism
Transvestic Fetishism
Voyeurism

And I, personally, am insulted on many levels, to be categorized in the same class as pedophiles. Which there fore makes me wonder... how truly open minded does that make me in the end?

[TheVariableX]

I'm going to stand naked on a limb here

I have been guilty of both reading and writing sex stories involving children under the age of consent, often without their consent anyway. Of course people who fantasize about children under the age of 13 are sicko's.

I don't consider myself a pedophile for two reasons. Firstly I recognize these fantasies are not reality and reality doesn't quite work the same way. Secondly I am in control and do not have the urge to go out and commit these crimes.

It does distress me that clinically the reason that bars me from the paraphilias definition is simply that I function in society and have the will to not do it. As much as I loathe a child molester and support strong punishment for them in some way I really do pity them. Are they just like us but without the will to say no to themselves? That would be hell.

I don't like the definition but I don't think I actually qualify for any paraphilias by its standard.

Does anyone feel their deviant ways interfere with everyday functioning, or do you feel you lack the power to control them?

[gagged_Louise]

A few more:

gerontophilia - being into sex with very old people

spinophilia - an erotic need to try piercings

urophilia/urolagnia - watersports

coprophilia - eating or playing aroun with shit

rhabarberophilia - need to use rhubarb in sexual contexts (well-known here on the Forum sometime back)

laryngophilia - infatuation with deep throating

filibusterophilia - finding an erotic/sadistic thrill in forcing others to listen to your endless monologues rambling from one subject to the next (combined with gagging your partner?)

[newby]

filibusterophilia - finding an erotic/sadistic thrill in forcing others to listen to your endless monologues rambling from one subject to the next (combined with gagging your partner?)

Is this for real?? my Man is a Texan. He can talk! We call it lecturing me into a coma. Believe me, there is nothing erotic about it!!

[newby]

A few more:

rhabarberophilia - need to use rhubarb in sexual contexts (well-known here on the Forum sometime back)

And what is the deal w/ rhubarb?? i've seen comments about it on the forum but i havent been able to figure out what it does or why people like it. Enlighten me.

[gagged_Louise]

filibustering as a sex habit:
Well, a friend of mine used to do something like that - he got high on things he read and would want to transmit his turn-on to people in a kind of bowl-over, speaking-in-tongues effect (and he did come from an evangelical background). So he'd read stuff from books, fairly complex texts at a teeth-clattering speed and with glazed eyes, you couldn't really follow the words.
His girl was kind of submissive to him (in a non-bdsm sense) and not terribly bright really, so she'd just listen while he read in this exultant style...I think he was somehow erotic in the way he took in and chewed the texts.


rhubarb:
Rhubarb used to be a major fetish with some people here, notably cariad and Uncle Ed (who have left now, unfortunately). Useful for all kinds of sex purposes: tickling a pussy, spanking and many other things.

[Flaming_Redhead]

Do you find your fantasies, urges or behaviors distressing? Did you at one point? Did something change your thought process that resulted in it no longer being distressing? Or better yet, let's ask the question, did you find it more distressing when you were trying to squash and ignore or fantasies, urges, or behaviors or after you finally recognized them and started accepting them?

I no longer find my fantasies, urges or behaviors distressing. I did when I first acknowledged them. Gathering information and realizing that I wasn't the only one who felt this way alleviated much of my distress. I've found that, once I was able to accept that I'm submissive instead of trying to fight it, ignore it or squash it, much of my internal conflict about it disappeared. My trust issues remain, however, but that is due to past relationships, not my sexual fantasies.

What is noticeable or measurable? Does this mean that anyone who has had sexual fantasies of the nature intended here for more then a moment could fall under this category? Who is to be the one to determine what is "sufficient" for my sexual needs? We allow others in society to determine that daily in some ways I'm sure, but how far does it go? Do you think you were personally satisfied sexually before you acknowledged this need? Did that satisfaction only occur after it was acknowledged? Is there a middle ground? Do you see your choice of acknowledging your sexual feelings as interfering with your "everyday functioning" or adding to it?

The terms used are highly subjective, meaning that it varies from person to person. Generally, though, it means that these thoughts have been occurring regularly for months or years. You are the only one who can determine what is sufficient for your sexual needs, unless you are a true nymphomaniac with uncontrollable urges that affect not only you but also the people around you in which case society will intervene. The majority of my sexually active life has been dissatisfying, not only due to my partners' unwillingness to accept my sexual desires or my unwillingness to share them but also their unwillingness or inability to satisfy me physically. Now that I'm in a D/s relationship with a wonderful man, I can honestly say I've never been more satisfied. There is no middle ground for me. My choice to embrace my sexual feelings interferes with my everyday life inasmuch as I can't have a relationship with a vanilla man and be happy. I was so unhappy in my 10-year vanilla marriage with a man who was in no way whatsoever dominant or sexually adventurous that I divorced him. I guess that means I fit the criteria.

As asked earlier are you more distressed now that you have acknowledged the feelings and sought to understand and meet them or less? Is the distress on a sexual basis only or on an overall basis? Did acknowledging them help resolve some other distresses?

In other words, they typically recognize the symptoms as negatively impacting their life but feel as if they are unable to control them.

Do you see them as having a negative impact on your life or enhancing it? Are you unable to control them? Do you want to control them or would you prefer someone else to control them?

I'm less distressed overall now that I'm moving forward and trying to understand them than I was beforehand. I guess you could say I'm a lifestyler rather than a kinkster since it wasn't just on a sexual basis but my overall sense of well-being that improved. As I said, trying to fit into the vanilla world is what was most distressing because I had to deny what I wanted and pretend to be "normal." The only negative impact I can see is that my choice of life partners is somewhat limited. I am able to control it for a time, but eventually, suppressing my urges only leads to depression. Why control them? Find a safe outlet for them and be happy!

Not sure I truly have a point anymore... lol. Other then to say, do you fit in the definition or not? I feel this type of definition is what adds to the closed mindedness of those around us, do you agree or disagree? Basically... what is your feeling about the definition?

I suppose I fit the definition since I ultimately ended my marriage rather than continue to be the one in control and continue to be sexually frustrated. Trying to teach an alternative lifestyle as the norm to others is kinda pointless because it's NOT the norm. The majority of people don't live like this. However, I do appreciate a "live and let live" attitude. While it might not be the norm, neither do I think it's a disease that needs to be treated or eradicated. You just have to be happy living outside the box of vanilla wafers!

Which there fore makes me wonder... how truly open minded does that make me in the end?

Since when should anyone be open minded about molesting, raping and killing innocent children?!?!?!? Even other criminals in prison won't tolerate a child molesterer in their midst and will kill them if given half a chance.

Regarding your counselor, I'd love to be a fly on the wall as you quote what tessa told hers (or as close as I can remember), "Let me give YOU some advice since you seem to be seriously lacking." *ggls* We (my ex and I) actually went to a Christian counselor, and without going into any sexual details about what I wanted, just the "man of the house" stuff, she completely agreed that what I wanted was NOT unreasonable and, in fact, went along with Biblical teachings. Too bad it didn't work for us. I hope you have better luck! *hugs*

[cadence]

spinophilia - an erotic need to try piercings

Isn't there one for tatoos? I find that the thought of getting one to be an erotic moment. Or is that considered a normal routine now.

filibusterophilia - finding an erotic/sadistic thrill in forcing others to listen to your endless monologues rambling from one subject to the next (combined with gagging your partner?)

Lol, I know a lot of people like that.


I want to respond to this, I figure I fit the profile all too well, I just need to figure out how to put my thoughts together.

[Alex Bragi]

Great post and thread, Annie! A very interesting read, and the responses too.

Yes, certainly my fantasies and urges were far more stressful before I understood and acknowledged them. I used to worry constantly that I was some kind of freak but really I was just ignorant. It’s like when I was kid, I used to worry about if and when I got married how would I manage to sneak away to masterbate.*gg*

It’s crazy really when you think about it that people are thought of as “mentally ill” simply because their thinking, emotions, or behaviour are contrary to what others considered acceptable and mainstream. I mean, so long as a person is capable of thinking logically, clearly and with a degree of empathy surely it’s totally unfair to say they’re suffering from ‘metal illness’ just because they choose a different lifestyle.

[catsclaw-01]

Alex I agree people jump to conclusions primarily due to ignorance of what they are judging. It takes courage to break out and go against the main stream. Happy paddling.....LOL

[gloombunny]

It’s crazy really when you think about it that people are thought of as “mentally ill” simply because their thinking, emotions, or behaviour are contrary to what others considered acceptable and mainstream.

Not by any reputable psychologist.

"must interfere with either satisfactory sexual relations or everyday functioning if the diagnosis is to be made" means what it says. Mainstream psychology these days generally doesn't consider anything to be a disorder unless it causes maladaptive behaviors. Eccentricity or unusual tastes that don't cause problems in your life are perfectly healthy.

[cadence]

Paraphilias all have in common distressing and repetitive sexual fantasies, urges, or behaviors. These fantasies, urges, or behaviors must occur for a significant period of time and must interfere with either satisfactory sexual relations or everyday functioning if the diagnosis is to be made. There is also a sense of distress within these individuals. In other words, they typically recognize the symptoms as negatively impacting their life but feel as if they are unable to control them.


Do you find your fantasies, urges or behaviors distressing? Did you at one point? Did something change your thought process that resulted in it no longer being distressing? Or better yet, let's ask the question, did you find it more distressing when you were trying to squash and ignore or fantasies, urges, or behaviors or after you finally recognized them and started accepting them?

I have been thinking about this question for a bit, since I thought that yes I could be grouped into the category of being a paraphilia. My mind never leaves the kinky, deviant thoughts alone.
I think there is a fine line drawn though, between that disorder and what we here think.
The difference is that paraphilia's are uncomfortable with thier thoughts, they reject them completely. They would not act out nor experience those thoughts. This would be why sexual relations and normal everyday functions are interuppted. We all have random thoughts that go through our minds everyday. Some thoughts may be entirely out of context and place, but we can dismiss them away easily. Some people cannot do that, and the thoughts become the main focus of thier life. They want them gone, but cannot stop thinking about them.

I am sure that we all have our fantasies and thoughts, and we may have been distressed by them when they were not accepted by others.
The difference is that we accept those thoughts and embrace them. When we accept that these thought processes are normal our lives move into a more positive direction. I would think that once it starts taking over your life negatively, then you have a problem.

[alpha_Straye]

Not by any reputable psychologist.

"must interfere with either satisfactory sexual relations or everyday functioning if the diagnosis is to be made" means what it says. Mainstream psychology these days generally doesn't consider anything to be a disorder unless it causes maladaptive behaviors. Eccentricity or unusual tastes that don't cause problems in your life are perfectly healthy.

i agree. i could be wrong but i think it may be that the mental disorder has the kinky stuff as it's chossen window dressing rather than saying that the alternate sexuality and lifestyle itself is a disorder. it's is the inability to function that makes it a disorder rather than the form of the outlet of that disorder. (making my own head hurt with that one)

uh.. like if someone had to wear a blue dress in order to be able to make themselves eat.. wearing blue dresses isnt a disorder, even if you're a man. liking it, getting off on it, even wanting to do it all the time, there's nothing wrong with that. it's having to base one's ability to eat on something so specific and external... which is a real problem if the world runs out of blue dresses *smile*. starving to death for lack of a specific article of clothing would indicate a little bit of a problem.

or at least that was my take on it *shrugsmile*

[annie]

I have been thinking about this question for a bit, since I thought that yes I could be grouped into the category of being a paraphilia. My mind never leaves the kinky, deviant thoughts alone.
I think there is a fine line drawn though, between that disorder and what we here think.
The difference is that paraphilia's are uncomfortable with thier thoughts, they reject them completely. They would not act out nor experience those thoughts. This would be why sexual relations and normal everyday functions are interuppted. We all have random thoughts that go through our minds everyday. Some thoughts may be entirely out of context and place, but we can dismiss them away easily. Some people cannot do that, and the thoughts become the main focus of thier life. They want them gone, but cannot stop thinking about them.

I am sure that we all have our fantasies and thoughts, and we may have been distressed by them when they were not accepted by others.
The difference is that we accept those thoughts and embrace them. When we accept that these thought processes are normal our lives move into a more positive direction. I would think that once it starts taking over your life negatively, then you have a problem.

Wonderful post Cadence... hadn't really thought of it from that angle.....

[TomStraye]

I have been thinking about this question for a bit, since I thought that yes I could be grouped into the category of being a paraphilia. My mind never leaves the kinky, deviant thoughts alone.
I think there is a fine line drawn though, between that disorder and what we here think.

Just a thought — how many people here were disturbed/distressed by their fantasies/desires until they discovered they were not alone in feeling that way and that their feelings are shared by millions of otherwise perfectly normal people?

Not that I'm suggesting we are abnormal but ... Well, I guess I'm just thinking Freud and the concept that, once you cut through all the crap, it was not their desires that made his patients ill, but their repression/denial of those desires.

Take eating disorders. Nothing abnormal about eating. And yet there are people out there who just cannot come to terms with their need to eat. Probably a bad example, but hopefully you get the point.

[alpha_Straye]

Just a thought — how many people here were disturbed/distressed by their fantasies/desires until they discovered they were not alone in feeling that way and that their feelings are shared by millions of otherwise perfectly normal people?

Not that I'm suggesting we are abnormal but ... Well, I guess I'm just thinking Freud and the concept that, once you cut through all the crap, it was not their desires that made his patients ill, but their repression/denial of those desires.

Take eating disorders. Nothing abnormal about eating. And yet there are people out there who just cannot come to terms with their need to eat. Probably a bad example, but hopefully you get the point.

so We really are Paraphilias, We're just in recovery?*Grin*

[gloombunny]

Just a thought — how many people here were disturbed/distressed by their fantasies/desires until they discovered they were not alone in feeling that way and that their feelings are shared by millions of otherwise perfectly normal people?

That's an interesting question. I'm pretty sure I knew about BDSM in general before I realized I was into it, so I never really thought of it as abnormal in the first place. (Since I've known I'm into BDSM since I was 10 years old or so, you can probably chalk this up to my liberal San Francisco upbringing. ^_- )

Not that I'm suggesting we are abnormal but ... Well, I guess I'm just thinking Freud and the concept that, once you cut through all the crap, it was not their desires that made his patients ill, but their repression/denial of those desires.

Take eating disorders. Nothing abnormal about eating. And yet there are people out there who just cannot come to terms with their need to eat. Probably a bad example, but hopefully you get the point.

I think this is precisely what psychologists are trying to get at with the clinical definitions of paraphilias. A paraphiliac disorder isn't just having a kink, it's having a kink and not being able to deal with that in a healthy way.

[cadence]

Just a thought — how many people here were disturbed/distressed by their fantasies/desires until they discovered they were not alone in feeling that way and that their feelings are shared by millions of otherwise perfectly normal people?

I don't think I can particularly say I was distressed by my fantasies/desires. I was more upset that I couldn't find someone who felt the same way as I did.
I chalked it up to being a bit abnormal and a minority. I knew that I wasn't completely abnormal, just different. Having no access to the internet, or no way of really knowing where to look for likeminded people didn't help things.

I repressed the idea that I would find someone who felt the same way I did. I really didn't repress my fantasies. I kept them as a way to cope with my vanilla life.