Is God Perfect?

[TomOfSweden]

The man who invented/discovered the Christian notion of God was Aristotle. The theory of the Unmoved Mover. He makes a rather complex argument for this theory and that argument is called the cosmological argument. This is the logical foundation Christianity still is dependent on. The universe has to have a beginning. According to Christianity, this by necessity, has to be God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotelian_view_of_God

Aristotle reasoned that since God was the initiator of all movement and actions he was also the originator of thought.

God is omnipotent and had everything he wanted. This is supported by a rather complex argument. This argumentation is also critical for the Christian theory of God. But here is where Aristotle differs a bit from modern Christian thought. He reasoned that all our emotions are based on things we lack. God doesn't lack anything therefore has no emotions. God is pure thought. His theory is a lot more complex than this. This was just a short run down of it. I didn't find the complete argumentation, but I'm sure I can dig it up if given enough time.

Philo of Alexandria shoehorned this theory into Judaism, and hey presto we've got Christianity. We actually also got Judaism as we know it today. It wasn't monotheist before this.

Anyway... This was a long winded way of saying that there are plenty of philosophical arguments for God being neither good nor evil, and this is the roots of Christianity. By claiming God is good you're standing up in the boat inserting all kinds of logical inconsistencies. It's a very complex theory and best not tampered with if you want coherence.

How do you know whether the goodness of God is just not wishful thinking from your side? Are there any logical arguments supporting God being good? Anyway... this is very complicated. Every act has a consequence and by being good to somebody God is bound to be evil to somebody somewhere.

The theory that God is good is not an easy theory to support. I don't know any philosopher who has managed. Thomas Aquinas just made the statement that God is good, because God is perfect and goodness is intrinsic with perfection. I personally can't see how that follows logically. I'd love to be enlightened.

[ThisYouWillDo]

Every act has a consequence and by being good to somebody God is bound to be evil to somebody somewhere.

Is that necessarily so? Is there always a consequence? If so, is it always "equal and opposite"?

I think that by being good to someone, he is simply favouring that person above others (and that he probably wants something in return, such as worship).

[TomOfSweden]

Is that necessarily so? Is there always a consequence? If so, is it always "equal and opposite"?

I think that by being good to someone, he is simply favouring that person above others

There's a couple of logical problems here. If God is love and loves everybody, (possibly equally as much) he wouldn't favour one person above another. Ever... Humans are social creatures. Our status and happiness is relative to our peers. If God is favouring one over an other he is being cruel to those who don't get the extra help, isn't he?

The second problem is financial. Let's say you're a baker or a fishmonger in Jerusalem ca AD 33 and a no good hippie turns up, magically conjures up bread and fish and distributes it for free. What happens to your sales? What if you're dependent on your sales to feed your family? The economy is very delicately balanced, if God does anything to effect the financial market, no matter how minute, there will always be a loser somewhere.

Of course he could simply be focused on saving people from having accidents which would save them from losses that nobody counted on, which will probably have a very slight impact. But that brings us to the next problem. If he loves all of us and is omnipotent, why would any of us ever have any accidents? He's omnipotent! It wouldn't cost him anything. It would be no effort on Gods side. He's beyond time itself. He could be at every point in time and place at all times. If anybody has an accident it must be because it is in Gods plan. It is what he wants. In a universe with a omnipotent being, everything that happens, happens because that is what God actively lets happen. It is what God wants, if that is even the correct term for it.

One solution could be deism. God never does anything. He started time and movement with one big bang and then went back to doing what he'd been doing prior to creating time, (how's that for logical conundrum?). This way God could still be good but understanding the implications of the impact of his own meddling he does nothing.

Yeah... this is pretty ranty. But this is the land of the hypothetical spirals of limitless imagination.

(and that he probably wants something in return, such as worship).

Why would an omnipotent being want to be worshipped? What could he/it possibly gain from that? He has everything. He's omnipotent! Why would an omnipotent being want anything at all? What needs could the desires of an omnipotent being possibly fulfil? Aristotle travelled down this philosophical road a long time ago and you'll be hard pressed to argue against him.

The God theory is only simple if you anthropomorphise God, but that would in turn would imply that God isn't omnipotent. So that's out of the question. There is no way God can have human emotions and still be omnipotent. The unmoved mover is philosophically a very complicated solution to the origins of the Universe. But in this area science really doesn't have any better explanation so it's a bit premature to rule out the possibility of there being no unmoved mover at all. As far as science is concerned it's just as a likely, (or unlikely) theory as any other.

I'm not making any claims that my understanding of the logical implications of the Christian theory of God is complete. Many much more intelligent men, (and women) than me have explored this much more fully. I'm sure there's a whole host of things I haven't thought of. But for Christianity the sad fact is that nobody has yet been able to tie up the bag. Nobody has been able to present a complete hypothetical model for how a universe with a Christian God will work. We're still in the fact finding stage. And God doesn't seem to be in a hurry to help us out in solving this problem.