Quote Originally Posted by wmrs2 View Post
TomOfSweden with having pointed out these truths, you have assisted all Christians in what they must argue in defending their faith, if only we will listen to you. Plato's God was absolute. So is the Christian God. The Absolute does not change. Change is an appearance and not really real. The the secret is to continue to have a better revealing of the Absolute.

That is what history and the Bible does. History and the Bible should both be viewed as a revealing by those who believe in the Absolute. God does not change but our conception of God improves. There are serous consequences for the world if Christians do not view history and the Bible from their world system's point of view, that is. that God is Absolute.

Christians falsely believe the Book of Revelation in the Bible is prophesy. Thus, they come up with many self-fulfilling prophesies that even our nation's politics is conjoined. The belief by both the Muslims and Christians that there is to be one last battle in the last days is a very dangerous prophesy in a nuclear age.

The first chapter of the Book of Revelation states clearly that the book is a revealing of Jesus Christ, that is, the Absolute. Author of books and T.V. ministers ignore this fact as they create scenarios for the end of days that can not be found in the Bible.

Well, I have really stepped into shit now! To argue from the point of view of the revelation of God, the revealing, will not go well with many ministers and authors who are making millions$ by scaring people about the last days as they continue their possible self-fulfilling statements.
I said earlier that my goal wasn't to discredit religion. I really don't. I'd say your above account is completely correct. But it still hinges on there being absolute truths we can know. This is not a matter of belief or faith. This is science. And we cannot prove either side.

If you do think it is down to faith you haven't understood the word. Faith is when you've measured enough times to be sure that every time you measure the result will be the same. This is when we make the leap of faith.

Kierkegaard reasoned that humanity will never be able to know and therefore if we are to make any meaning of life, forced to make a leap to faith. But this was in the 1840'ies. I'd say he was probably a bit premature in his assessment. Science has progressed with leaps and bounds since then. There's no reason any more to make a leap to faith. Taking an informed leap of faith is actually possible in these informed times. The problem is of course that we're swamped by too much information and no single person can sort it our by themselves. But that is not the problem of truth/God. That is just the situation we find ourselves in and which we'll have to deal with. And the Christian theory of God is much to vague and abstract to be applicable to today's science. The Bible needs an update to be relevant in today's society. At least if you care about truth.

I personally see the Bible as a summation of what we knew, or thought we knew in 350 AD. But it was a snapshot of it's time. Modern science is the same Bible but for today. A snapshot of our time. Maybe truth is absolute. Maybe. Maybe science will find constants somewhere. Maybe. But it's not a matter of faith. Faith cannot change what is true. It is a matter of continued research by those who have devoted their lives to finding truth using the tools with which it is potentially possible. No, I'm not talking about Kukulcan priests smoking peyote or the Pope swigging wine.

But I'll admit that having this approach takes away the simplicity of getting the "truth" in easily digestible MTV formated packaging. It means you actually need to make an effort. You can't just sit and be opinionated on forums and read one single book.