Points of view - What style is best?

[underwhere]

For myself, I guess I'm a little complicated. I prefer third person, but also love the challenge of getting into the head of the character being abused not by directly writing down the characters thoughts, but rather by being detailed about how others see her reacting, by noting small details such as where she's looking, what her posture is, what her physical sensations are.

I'm a little complicated too. When writing in third person, its really difficult to get into the characters' heads, and sometimes, you just can't understand what is going on without that ability, especially since some characters are exceptionally good at masking their thoughts and feelings. As a reader, I'm equally interested in that, if not more so, than I am in the action itself.

Actually, I'm now in the process of waiting for a review of my first assignment in the Writers Block in which I was not consistent with my point of view, switching between first and third person here and there. I'm very interested to see how it reads to others. (It reads well to me, but I can't write simply for myself if I want my stories read by others, after all.) There is plenty of room in this assignment if I want to add something to it later, so its quite possible that I may eventually put it up in chapter form in the library itself at some point.

For some reason I find that to be more erotic than just a straightforward "Here's word for word what's in my head." Letting the reader infer what in a characters head by her reactions and her immediate environment tends to be more satisfying, in my experience.

I think it works both ways, but there is definitely an art to doing it well no matter which method you choose.

I think its probably easier to be consistent with first person, and quite possibly, it might be easier to craft a tighter tale that way, but I've read plenty of each style to know that they each serve a purpose, both to the writer and to the reader. The trick seems to be in choosing the right approach for the particular writing project.

Its also possible that the mood of a story will come out better if told one way or the other. So maybe it depends more on the story itself than on the author or the audience. I dunno....just some rambling thoughts.

[Faibhar]

It seems, hopefully, to be best when using a POV to make it more interesting by alternating views from 1st to 2nd, to 3rd.

[Dragon's muse]

If i read something like that my eyeballs would bleed and my head would explode.

[GreyJack]

There are so many variations of style for POV that what works for some, doesn't for others. Big Help, I know LOL. The main thing I have found is that the overlying POV is that of the author's narrator, the overriding "voice" and "opinions" of the story. That is essentially, the POV whether it is an all-seeing, all-knowing type or a specific "observing" individual. If it's an all-seeing POV then you can probe into the minds of all the characters, describe what they do when alone, etc., obviously not so with a specific individual who only knows, sees, etc when this individual is present (but, of course, may speculate about when they're not present).

A consistent POV from a specific narrator (non all-seeing) provides a good medium for dynamic tension and "surprises." Good storytellers usually give the reader the sense that it's someone who is able to put them in the picture, and who knows the outcome (hence a lot of good stories are like hearing them "as history." They did this, they did that, they felt/thought this or that (doesn't have to be told in the past tense however). The POV of this individual storyteller also can provide insights (or hindsights) into the meaning of the story as it develops. Dunno if any of this is helpful. I've been a writer for well over 40 years and am still always learning and re-learning the craft of making words do what I need them to. *S*

[Dragon's muse]

GreyJack,
i've been a professional writer for about fifteen years and i still learn new things everyday, too. First person has never worked for me, to the point in a bookstore, if i glance at the first paragraph and it's in first, the book goes back on the shelf.

(With a few exceptions -- Flowers for Algernon, Dolores Claiborne, -- but those are rare and they have to be either highly reccomended or from a writer that i trust will tell a gripping enough story to overcome my basic dislike of first person.)

i've never seen any published second person fiction. i never want to see any.

My preference for reading and writing is Multi-perspective Third Limited. It allows me to get inside a character's head, without the head-hopping feeling of Third Omniscent.

[crystelia]

Wow - never read a Sherlock Holmes story?

[Dragon's muse]

Doyle is one of those rare exceptions i spoke of. There are always exceptions.

Tom Clancy write wonderful plot driven fiction; that doesn't transform most plot driven fiction into something wonderful.

Neil Gaiman writes brilliant fantasy; that doesn't make the cliche-ridden, formulaic, derivative fantasy brilliant.

[Faibhar]

It seems as if reading alternating POVees causes nose bleeds, etc., then perhaps another means of entertainment/career is by necessity demanded.

[Dragon's muse]

Really? Does that mean i should send back the next royalty check? That would put me in a bit of a bind, frankly.

Since alternate POV's are so great, can you point me to some well-crafted second person fiction, erotic or otherwise?

Actually, preferring third person makes it a bit easier, since most published fiction is written in thrid person, past tense. Wonder why that is?

Edited to add: i think i'll write a novel in second person, plural, future, subjunctive. Now there's an idea with "bestseller" all over it.

[Faibhar]

Pontificating leads elsewhere. Let's just defer to Dragon's muse's clear superiority in all matters and hope no other eyeball bleeding or head explosions occur.

[Dragon's muse]

i apologize. i was unaware that stating my preference was pontificating. Shan't make that mistake again.

No second person fiction to suggest?

[Mad Lews]

Just as a challenge, a second person story of over a thousand words, erotic preferably and post it here or in the library.

I've tried my hand at first person it's a challenge to write right and a challenge to read but if you pull it off it has emotional impact that you're hard pressed to get in third person limited past tense.
http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/w...p?storyid=3439

Even when done well I find it hard to maintain the first person POV for any length beyond the short story. That is, hard to write it at length and hard to keep the reader into it. That could just be me though.

Second person might work in a few select cases, but for a whole story let alone a novel... I think not.

Third person is in fact what mostly gets published and read, so lighten up everyone. These discussions are supposed to be for sharing information not an exercise in sarcasm.

Affectionately
Mad Lews

[Isabella King]

I agree with Mad Lews and the pontificator I would never use first person for anything other than a short story. It's too hard to keep it going and also far too limiting in anything of length.

Third person omniscient has to be best for longer stuff - why make the task harder than you have to .

Second person? Don't do it

[Dragon's muse]

At the risk of pontificating, first person -- in most cases -- just feels intrusive to me. It makes me very aware of the storytelling process. As i said, there are exceptions, but overall i do avoid first person fiction when i can (which turns into almost always when it is first person present tense -- i can't get rid of the picture of a person walking around going about their activities talking into a tape recorder.)

[Alex Bragi]

Well, I don't really mind first person writing, in fact I've read quite a few stories that I felt read a whole lot more intimately that way---a little like being told about some-one's naughtiest secrets or thoughts.

Isabella, I agree second person story telling--just don't go there. When I read erotic fiction I love to immerse myself in it, but there is just simply no way I'm ever going to get my head around being told something like: "..you stick your hard cock in her wet pussy..."

[Faibhar]

Consensus has it then! First Person Writing is the best there ever is, or will be in written history.

[Faibhar]

Consensus has it then! First Person Writing is the best there ever is, or will be in written history.

[Faibhar]

Consensus has it then! First Person Writing is the best there ever is, or ever will be in written history.

[Dragon's muse]

Actually, no one style is "best". Depends on the project, the reader, and the writer. It's all subjective.

[Faibhar]

On that much we can all agree, it is truly subjective

[Mad Lews]

Consensus has it then! First Person Writing is the best there ever is, or ever will be in written history.

There’s a lot to be said for third person either limited or omnipotent

Consensus commonly means a general agreement among the members of a given group or community, each member of which exercises some discretion in decision-making process. Respect is implied or at least inferred. When misused as a verb, consensus is the process of creating such a state of agreement.

In its most extreme form consensus requires agreement of all participants, a process as time consuming but not nearly as useful as herding cats. Achieving consensus requires serious treatment of every group member's considered opinion. It is in the end a struggle to find an opinion that is acceptable to all, or at least most. Often it ends up being a rush toward the lowest common denominator.

considerately yours

Mad & Lews

[Dragon's muse]

And he said i pontificated!!

[Isabella King]

Hehe! I'm so glad you got here first, muse.

[Mad Lews]

Smoke curls above the basilica as the streets ring with joyous shouts.

"I wanna be the Pontiff!!!" Mad cried

"NO, pick me! Pick me!" Lews rejoined

[Mad Lews]

"You are my sunshine, My only sunshine.
You make me happy when skies are gray......"

Ya know I bet this could be done. Just add some rope and gratuitous sex and viola!
Any takers?

Mad

[Dragon's muse]

My very dear and/or very esteemed Mad and/or Lews,

Lots and lots of things could be done. You could build a house of nothing but broccoli with an asparagus roof. You could cover a vintage Bentley in mashed parsnips. The question would be, "Why?"

With fondest regards,
rose

[Dragon's muse]

Smoke curls above the basilica as the streets ring with joyous shouts.

"I wanna be the Pontiff!!!" Mad cried

"NO, pick me! Pick me!" Lews rejoined

Both of you just want to wear the cool hat and cape and ride around in the limo with the bulletproof glass bubble.


Although, i think a shorter length skirt would look much better on you -- show off those sexy gams of yours.

[Faibhar]

Actually, the popemobile can best show off both cool hat, cape, etc.

As for the "consensus" bit, you are quite right in technicality, in not in intent.

[Alex Bragi]

Both of you just want to wear the cool hat and cape and ride around in the limo with the bulletproof glass bubble.


Although, i think a shorter length skirt would look much better on you -- show off those sexy gams of yours.

*gg* I believe you're absolutely right, Dragon's muse.

[Dragon's muse]

*gg* I believe you're absolutely right, Dragon's muse.

Hey, Dragon is totally hawt in his kilt; i figure Mad/Lews would be, too.