Honour

[lily27]

Yes, that's right. It is spelt with a "u".

So I have been thinking about honour lately. Specifically, how is it determined if you have honour, or you are an honourable person?

I mean, you can decide to do the "honourable thing".... or maybe live by a "code of honour".... but when you "have honour" is that something other people have to decide for you, or is it something you can declare for yourself?

Can you really announce in a huff, "at least I have my honour!" if nobody agrees with you?

Honour is a quality or trait that is often attributed to Dominants. In the Gorean lifestyle it is considered to be very important. But how do you get it?

I think this is a word we toss around an awful lot, to the point that the meaning behind it is vague at best. So what do you think? What does honour really mean??

[Tojo]

Well I sure wouldn't want to decide for myself whether I have honour or not.

I guess if I had to, I'd say 'not as much as I'd like to!'

Honour means different things to different people- to me it means treating others with respect at all times- even when it's hard.

It's sticking by a friend or partner, trying not to hurt others with words or deeds. Standing up for what you believe in, & most of all not 'going along with the crowd' when they put down others or talk crap- even if it means you're not popular....

[stripedangel]

My Master's uncle (we'll call him Joe) died last month...he was a sherriff for 27 years, and he was a good one. He was also President of the Sherriff's Association for many years.

Joe once had to arrest the man who killed one of his deputies. The man ended up getting the death penalty for his crime, and Joe was there (at this man's request). Before his execution, when he was given the opportunity for his "last words", he thanked Joe for treating him kindly while in Joe's jail.

When I met Joe, my son saw his badge, and asked, "Are you here to arrest my mama?" To which Joe replied, "I believe those fellas at my jail would think she's too purdy."

There were probably 300 people at this man's funeral. Not a single dry eye could be seen. He was honour personified. I believe he conducted himself with honour his entire life, in everything he did...but he never called himself honourable. It was all about simply doing the right thing.

If you are honorable, it is because you make the choice to be. It should not ever be touted. Honour is earned by you, given by others, and not self-proclaimed.

[sidhewolf]

Yes, that's right. It is spelt with a "u".

So I have been thinking about honour lately. Specifically, how is it determined if you have honour, or you are an honourable person?

I mean, you can decide to do the "honourable thing".... or maybe live by a "code of honour".... but when you "have honour" is that something other people have to decide for you, or is it something you can declare for yourself?

Can you really announce in a huff, "at least I have my honour!" if nobody agrees with you?

Honour is a quality or trait that is often attributed to Dominants. In the Gorean lifestyle it is considered to be very important. But how do you get it?

I think this is a word we toss around an awful lot, to the point that the meaning behind it is vague at best. So what do you think? What does honour really mean??

Hello All~

I think True Honour is a trait that boils down to Respect from inside a Person, to the outside. And starts with Self Respect. I think the Quality of True Honour is many things beyond that. It is being Responsible, Accountable, Honest, Reasonable, Trustworthy, and Balanced, all at the same time. Even when it isn't easy, or what One may like to do. I think it's also Knowing that just because One can do something, doesn't mean One always should.

Someone who has Honour *to me* is Someone who can see the bigger picture, and beyond what They may may want on a whim. They consider the consequences to Themselves and Other's, of what They may wish to do. And They Balance all things with a scale of right and wrong. One who has Honour never does wrong Knowingly. If They do wrong They try to correct that wrong.

I think Other's Know when a Person has Honour or not, if They actually Know that Person. I don't think Anyone gives it to a Person, or can take it away.

As always just my thoughts, experience, and perception.

Respectfully~SidheWolf

[subserviant]

u can honour some one or u can have honour. if u honour some one then u repect their opinions ,u dont have to agree but u listen if u have honour u will stick by yr friends ,by your moral ethics be big enough to admit when yr wrong

[GearJammer]

Yes, Lily, in English, it’s spelled with a “u” as is, for instance, colour. In American, it’s not. More importantly, it’s an important subject that is much ignored or treated with distain in the world many of us live in today. As evidence, I cite your very true statement, “I think this is a word we toss around an awful lot, to the point that the meaning behind it is vague at best.” This should not be true, Lily, but it is. The meaning behind it should not be vague, it should be crystal clear to each of us, even though the details of how each of us applies it would be different with each of us.

Tojo, I think you hit the principle of it on the head, when you said, “…to me it means treating others with respect at all times- even when it's hard. It's sticking by a friend or partner, trying not to hurt others with words or deeds. Standing up for what you believe in, & most of all not 'going along with the crowd' when they put down others or talk crap- even if it means you're not popular...” I think that is summarized by saying that honor (I’m American, Lily) does not seek the crowd’s approval, it seeks the peace of the man in the mirror and his conscience. THAT, of course, assumes that the man in the mirror (or the woman, in the case of the ladies) has a conscience. I contend that honor and a conscience go hand in hand. The loss of one portends the loss of the other.

Striped angel, outstanding example. Thank you for it. What struck me most was this. “...but he never called himself honourable. It was all about simply doing the right thing.” “Simply doing the right thing.” I think I can correctly extend that to include “even if it wasn’t popular, or easy, or pleasant, or any other similar thing.” Dovetails perfectly with the principle Tojo propounded, but that should be no surprise.

Sidhewolf gives us more meat to the subject with her “thoughts, experience, and perception.” She cites “Respect from inside a Person” and she correctly notes it starts with self respect. She lists these characteristics, “Responsible, Accountable, Honest, Reasonable, Trustworthy, and Balanced.” I’d like to think I could generate as concise a list. Then she dovetails with the above principle with “Someone who can see the bigger picture, and beyond what They may may want on a whim. They consider the consequences to Themselves and Other's, of what They may wish to do. And They Balance all things with a scale of right and wrong. One who has Honour never does wrong Knowingly. If They do wrong They try to correct that wrong.” However, she seems to go against the flow when she says “I don't think Anyone gives it to a Person, or can take it away.” I think she’s right, by the way, but I don’t think that statement is all of the story.

I mean no offense to subservient when I do not quote her, but her post is succinct, and in complete support of the notions above.

I have quoted and remarked on all of the above because the continuity of thought struck me here. If indeed “this is a word we toss around an awful lot, to the point that the meaning behind it is vague at best” (and I think that’s true of the vast majority of people I deal with every day) then this continuity of thought is heartening and I’m glad to see it.

I will add only this. It has been said here both that honor is not something one can declare for themselves, and that it is something that is not given to a person nor taken away from them. Actually, I believe both are true.

Honor comes from within a person. It is a commitment to do right, even when it’s difficult or unpleasant. While what’s “right” might vary from honorable person to honorable person, the commitment to it will not vary, if they are honorable indeed. A commitment is a declaration by oneself to oneself that one WILL adhere to something.

Hence, it MUST be true that one can declare himself (or herself) honorable. That is NOT the same thing as someone blowing his own horn and BRAGGING of his honor. A quiet, personal declaration is something quite different from “having to tell” everyone that honor is there.

I think that the “giving honor” that is being mentioned in this thread is actually “recognizing honor” where it is already present. That recognition itself is an honorable act, and therefore feels like it is being given, but it is merely seeing the symptom, not installing the root cause.

Hoping I haven’t bored everyone to death with this tome, and best regards,

Gear.

[casie1124]

I believe honor is a way that one conducts them self through out a life time. Honor is doing little things in your life that benefit others or a cause much larger than yourself. I don't believe that most people who are honorable would run around stating they have honor all the time. To me that is part of having honor you do the things you do not for recognition but simply to do that right thing. I guess in my eyes an honorable person follows a strict set of believes, doesn't "sell out" their values and beliefs in fact they fight diligently for them, they are modest and do so not for recognition but because their conscious and character demands this of them.

Hope that made sense

[lilchia3]

I thought that I would just kind of throw this out there.
Two Definitions:

1) "That which rightfully attracts esteem, respect, or consideration; self-respect; dignity; courage; fidelity; especially, excellence of character; high moral worth; virtue; nobleness;"-Webster's Revised Unabriged Dictionary from Dictionary.com....this also said something specifically about purity and chasitity in women, but I figured that part didn't apply


2) "Honour or honor (see spelling differences), (the latter directly from the Latin word honor) is the evaluation of a person’s trustworthiness and social status based on that individual's espousals and actions. Honour is deemed exactly what determines a person's character: whether or not the person reflects honesty, respect, integrity, or fairness. Accordingly, individuals are assigned worth and stature based on the harmony of their actions, code of honour, and that of the society at large. Honour can be analysed as a relativistic concept, i.e., conflicts between individuals and even cultures arising as a consequence of material circumstance and ambition, rather than fundamental differences in principle. Alternatively, it can be viewed as nativist — that honour is as real to the human condition as love, and likewise derives from the formative personal bonds that establish one's personal dignity and character."- Wikipedia

Not trying to contradict anyone, I agree with what has been said, but I thought I would put it out anyway.....