Waterboarding

[MMI]

I've made my points here already, so I'm not jumping back into the waterboarding issue. But I have to comment about one statement you made.

Regarding the firebombing of Dresden, and some other German cities, I would probably have to agree with you: it did nothing to end the war sooner, and if we had lost the war, instead of winning, our military leaders would probably have been tried as war criminals. Winners make the history, after all.
But Hiroshima and Nagasaki were something quite different. Although the Japanese military forces had been thoroughly trounced by then, they did not, and would not surrender. We had two options: drop the bomb and scare them into surrender, or invade the home islands and crush them. The problem with the latter is that the Japanese people, not just the military, were preparing to fight to the death to stop us! Dropping the bomb saved thousands of American lives, and probably saved millions of Japanese lives in the long run. In my opinion the US has nothing to apologize for in those instances.

Why cities? Why not military targets?

[Thorne]

Why cities? Why not military targets?

Actually, they were military targets. According to Wikipedia, "During World War II, the Second Army and Chugoku Regional Army were headquartered in Hiroshima, and the Army Marine Headquarters was located at Ujina port. The city also had large depots of military supplies, and was a key center for shipping."

And Nagasaki's "main industry was ship-building. This very industry would eventually make it a target in World War II, since many warships used by the Japanese Navy during the war were built in its factories and docks."

However, doing some research on this to determine the kinds of targets, I found some disturbing information. Apparently, Truman's military advisers didn't think dropping the bomb was necessary, that carpet bombing and embargo could have forced a Japanese surrender, especially if the Allies would have backed off of their unconditional surrender stance. It may be that Truman's primary reason for dropping the bombs was to frighten Stalin. I find this quite disturbing.

On the other hand, though, carpet bombing, even with conventional weapons, would probably have resulted in far more casualties, and infrastructure damage, to the Japanese than these two bombs.

This discussion probably should be moved to a separate thread, though, if the moderators agree.