Expressing Love...Hmm What's That?

[TomOfSweden]

Really, I don't think I've ever tried to steer it someplace it isn't already going. That would rather defeart the purpose of it being a truth of any sort.

This is interesting. Now we're narrowing down the definition of love. But yeah, I agree, but it is I think up for debate.

"Who here hasen't at one point in your lives hated yourself for loving someone?"

*raises hand* Um, I've been occasionally embarrassed over crushes based on physical attraction. Then I got to know the person and went, "sheesh, what was I thinking??" I have also occasionally been off base in my assessment of the qualities of the person I was falling for. It's never been fun, but to say I "hated" myself for loving or for staring to fall? Wow. Harsh. I can't see how you even could hate yourself for having love in your heart.

Ok, now it gets sticky with the terminology. Now we have to define various types of love. I was thinking about crushes. Isn't it love? If not, why not? I'm not really making a case here. I just think its interesting to think about?

I personally think love is a pretty uncomplicated affair which is basically defined by physical attractions and physical feedback, which in turn is interpreted as something it isn't. Don't forget that we're the story telling simians. We put everything that happens into a story, no matter if its true or not.

Here's an example. When we like somebody and they say something or otherwise communicate with us, our pupils dilate. When we don't like somebody and they communicate with us our pupils retract. Try it on a few people with blue eyes, its really apparent. Two people in love are stuck in a re-enforcing feedback loop of this. If our pupil dilation isn't matched, we will eventually lose interest. This is of-course not conscious. But its simple enough to measure.

But hate was a strong word. "Be annoyed about" was probably better.

Anyway. This begs the question, in what way is a committed long term love affair/marriage different from a fling? Is it the mutual bank account, shared apartment, the commitment or is it something deeper? I personally can't think of anything. The things I still love about my current wife is the exact same things I got stuck for when we first met. I love her more, because the things I suspected of her proved to be true. But I still suspected it when we first met or I wouldn't have married her.

For example, she said she "hates religion with a passion" and my assumption was that she had intellectual interests and liked thinking. This proved to be true. What I love about her isn't that she hates religion but that she thinks. I for one love religion... but not as a follower.

"And seriously, highest values? Ok, sure, you value somebody very highly. But are those the highest values? Really."

Tom, I think you misunderstood me. I said love was a choice made in response to the highest values we hold for ourselves. My love is based upon judgment of myself, what I want, MY highest values - when I find a person that represents that which I hold in esteem and respects me for doing so for myself, my response is the beginning of love. Toss in a little chemistry and now we're on our way to "in love."

Ok, now I get it. Thanks for explaining. I think we agree there. But could you fuck somebody with opinions you judge as stupid? I could and have.

But I only agree now. I didn't used to. This is a fairly new approach for me... Only since my current slave actually.

[i]"I bought my wife 20 long roses yesterday just because I was so much in love. What's so high and noble about that?"[i/]

The high value and the nobility is simply the love you hold and why. The roses are just a small symbol of that. I can't imagine you love your wife as an act of pity toward her, do you? It's not a selfless love, born from a lack of love for yourself and an attempt to compensate for that, is it? If I were to take a stab, I would say you could list off MULTIPLE fine qualities your wife possesses and the fact that you enjoy those qualities and why speak volumes about the type of person you are. Your love for her is a response to your values, is a response to yourself. For someone with low values and little sense of self, sure, love may not be what a lot of people would consider "noble," but it is still a response by that person to what is most prevelant within them, thier highest values regardess of low their high may seem to the rest of the world.

I don't understand what you mean with low values? But other wise I agree.

It's a good thing I consider selfishness a much underappreciated virtue. Thanks for the post, Tom.

No, problem. It's always nice when my opinionated rants are appreciated.