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  1. #1
    The road not taken
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    I'm not an American obviously... but I want to say something anyway because I am not so sure every American gets this. But the way you guys vote - its not just about you. Its about the whole world and all of us have to live with your decision.

    I think that's one of the key factors of why the anti-Americanism peaked up so much recently. I mean I remember a time not too long ago where America was the coolest country in the world to us (Germans). And today its mostly a cause to roll our eyes with that frustrated helplessness that many of us Europeans feel. Its because for the past 8 years we had to live with your decision - and the first 4 - ok, granted, people vote for strange people for strange reasons (can't say that we Germans don't have our experiences with that) but after he was re-elected, I think many of us lost a lot of faith in American voters. Because it DOES matter who you vote for. It matters to me, to Germans, British, Italians, Iraniens... but we can't vote. You can.
    Some say the world will end in fire,
    Some say in ice.
    From what I've tasted of desire
    I hold with those who favor fire.
    But if it had to perish twice,
    I think I know enough of hate
    To say that for destruction ice
    Is also great
    And would suffice.

    Robert Frost

  2. #2
    Just a little OFF
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    Unfortunately, whether it matters or not is not really the point. The point is that we have to elect one of these two, regardless of how we feel about either of them.

    Given the choices available 8 years ago, and even 4 years ago, Bush was, or seemed to be, the lesser of two evils. Now we have to choose between Obama and McCain and, to be honest, there isn't much to be said for either of them. But does anyone really think that an independent could overturn the stranglehold the Republicans and Democrats have on American politics? Not likely!

    In my mind, these two got the nomination simply because they were the least objectionable of all the available candidates. Sad to say but in reality I don't think either of them is right for the job. And one thing to worry about, which is even more important this year than in many previous elections, is the Vice President.

    I'm ashamed to have to say it, but there are far too many "Americans" who see only the color of Obama's skin. I'm afraid there could be serious racial repercussions if he is elected. That could mean Biden taking over the job, and I don't see anything really redeeming about him, either.

    And for the Republicans, McCain's age is something to worry about as well. The job is stressful enough as it is. Having to take over with the world in such a financial crisis will make things even harder. I foresee a very real possibility of Palen having to take control, something which is also not too palatable.

    All in all this country, and I suppose the rest of the world, is going to have to hold their collective breaths and hope that whoever gets the job will have the courage and stamina to actually get the job done!
    "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #3
    Prudish Pervert
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I'm not an American obviously... but I want to say something anyway because I am not so sure every American gets this. But the way you guys vote - its not just about you. Its about the whole world and all of us have to live with your decision.

    I think that's one of the key factors of why the anti-Americanism peaked up so much recently. I mean I remember a time not too long ago where America was the coolest country in the world to us (Germans). And today its mostly a cause to roll our eyes with that frustrated helplessness that many of us Europeans feel. Its because for the past 8 years we had to live with your decision - and the first 4 - ok, granted, people vote for strange people for strange reasons (can't say that we Germans don't have our experiences with that) but after he was re-elected, I think many of us lost a lot of faith in American voters. Because it DOES matter who you vote for. It matters to me, to Germans, British, Italians, Iraniens... but we can't vote. You can.
    With all due respect, when it comes to electing who leads my country, I base my decision on who I think will do the best job without a lot of regard for any "frustrated helplessness" or "eye rolling" the rest of the world may choose to engage in.

    And I'd hope that all Americans would make that choice based on what they believe is in the long-term best interest of the country, rather than than how "cool" the rest of the world thinks we are -- we're talking about the President of a nation of 300,000,000 people here, not President of the Senior Class ... "cool" shouldn't enter into it at all.

    I see a significant difference between the two candidates: one is far-Left (one of the most Liberal Senators we have) and the other's Center-Right.

    I'm opposed to big government, entitlement programs and policies that encourage reliance on government instead of self-reliance -- so I'll be voting for McCain.

    I'm opposed to government confiscation of private property through eminant domain for purposes of increasing tax revenue (Kelo vs. New London), which the Liberal justices approved of -- so I'll be voting for McCain.

    I'm in favor of school choice, rather than the failed, bloated public education system we have now, so I'll be voting for McCain.

  4. #4
    The road not taken
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragoczy View Post
    With all due respect, when it comes to electing who leads my country, I base my decision on who I think will do the best job without a lot of regard for any "frustrated helplessness" or "eye rolling" the rest of the world may choose to engage in.

    And I'd hope that all Americans would make that choice based on what they believe is in the long-term best interest of the country, rather than than how "cool" the rest of the world thinks we are -- we're talking about the President of a nation of 300,000,000 people here, not President of the Senior Class ... "cool" shouldn't enter into it at all.
    With all due respect back but it should matter. We live in a world so dependant on its interlinking framework of international law, contracts and organisations that whoever you vote for will effect you as much as many other people on this earth. Be it in terms of the environment, in terms of a chance to maybe someday creating a functioning UN or in terms of making this world a safe place to live in.

    I should maybe have explained the choice of word 'cool' in this context - but before Bush I WAS in High School - so 'cool' was exactly what America was. It was 'in', 'hip' and a few other irrelevent terms. But there is a serious side to this because as someone already pointed out, there was a time where America had a lot more allies and a LOT more sympathy abroad. And you might say that it doesn't matter for a country of 300,000,000 people and by rule of the strongest it might not. Of course then you put yourself on the same moral basis as China.
    Some say the world will end in fire,
    Some say in ice.
    From what I've tasted of desire
    I hold with those who favor fire.
    But if it had to perish twice,
    I think I know enough of hate
    To say that for destruction ice
    Is also great
    And would suffice.

    Robert Frost

  5. #5
    Just a little OFF
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    One of the really big reasons I have for feeling that it's ultimately unimportant which candidate becomes president is that the power of the president, while great, is still severely limited. Certainly, a strong president can usually manage to get things moving in the direction he wants, like Reagan did. But ultimately, the president must answer to Congress.

    Sure, Bush sent us into Iraq and Afghanistan. But where did the money come from to keep us there, and to pay for all of those Haliburton contracts? Why, from Congress!

    Sure, Bush pushed for a financial bailout of the crumbling banks. But who passed a bill containing so much crap, like the wooden arrows tax break? Congress!

    Who creates laws which are costly for people to abide by, then exempts themselves from those laws? Congress again!

    True, it's not quite as simple as this sounds. I'm simplifying enormously. But ultimately, nothing gets done without at least the tacit approval of Congress. The president cannot directly pass laws.

    What really scares the hell out of me this year is that, with the financial problems we're having, right before election, we're probably going to see a Democrat in the White House while at the same time seeing even more Republicans losing seats in the Congress. That could make it much easier for far left legislation to become law, which may not be a good thing, for America or for the rest of the world.
    "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche

  6. #6
    Kinkstaah
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragoczy View Post
    I see a significant difference between the two candidates: one is far-Left (one of the most Liberal Senators we have) and the other's Center-Right.
    .
    That is really wierd for me to read since both candidates are way right of any politicians we got here in Sweden so... far left means hmm way right to me .
    Far left here in Sweden means the Communist party pretty much...
    Sir to my girl.
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  7. #7
    Prudish Pervert
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logic1 View Post
    That is really wierd for me to read since both candidates are way right of any politicians we got here in Sweden so... far left means hmm way right to me .
    Far left here in Sweden means the Communist party pretty much...
    I think that's one of the reasons that there's so much confusion and frustration between America and Europe when we look at each other's politics. Most American's self-identify as Center-Right, regardless of how they vote -- so from our perspective, most of Europe appears to be Commie-bastards -- while from yours we look like a bunch of Fascist-pigs.

    Personally, I'm mostly Libertarian, which means that I'm stuck with the Republicans because my own party doesn't have a chance in hell -- primarily because they won't lose the damn "legalize drugs"-plank in their platform.

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