BDSM And Feminism: Intertwined? How So?

[denuseri]

Giggles I just figured i better point out the irony in stereotyping catagorically.

"I find those women who say that they are not feminists to be spoiled, rude and ungrateful. And also ignorant, because one of the meanings of the word feminist is to be of feminine character. So if you are not feminine, what are you, butch? " by damyanti

Just to use myself as an example:

Again I must say I most certianly am not a feminist.

I have never been spolied other than to have good gender based role models for parents and a Master that puts my life above his own.

Admitably I am sometimes rude, but I am working on it.

No one that I have had contact with to my knowledge has said I am ungrateful, heck I even thank the dominants in my life for spanking my ass among other things winks (IE: OWWWW! two! Slut thanks Master! may she have another? )

I am far to much of a girlie girl (despite being raised rather tomboyishly) with a out of control hello kitty fettish to be even remotely accosiated with being "butch".

Ignorance might be bliss, but the little korean boy that heads the chess team in the honors room at school does fear my approch for a reason, and it's not becuase I have nice legs or a naughty nature that knows when he is looking at my mouth he is thinking about anything but the game (licks my lips). It's actually probabley got more to do with something about my wicked end game or the way I out think him.

Historically speaking:

The conseptualization of what it means to be "feminine" ergo to be "female" existed for tens of thousands of years perhaps even longer (even before "language" fully developed) which is a far better example of precedance than any recent mis-conseptualization by the so called feminists....... who have managed to twist and transvaluate values (to quote niestche).

So I find the your statement saying it must be this or that (feminist or butch) indicative of sophistry as it is a catagorically spurious corelation with little relevance to any logic in your argument other than to attempt to invoke an emotional responce instead of apealing to reason.

Just for paradoxical purposes:

If I am a feminist then you are a kajira!

And, darling, you may not wish to call yourself one, but you are a kajira. In fact, you are my kajira girl icon in waiting. (and I considered you that before this thread. (winks)

[damyanti]

If I am a feminist then you are a kajira!

And, darling, you may not wish to call yourself one, but you are a kajira. In fact, you are my kajira girl icon in waiting. (and I considered you that before this thread. (winks)

( I actually quite like that, thanks)


Fine, let me ask you this - what does it mean to be a feminist? Who is a feminist?


Because to me being a feminist means that I am respected as a human being, that my opinions are not rejected just because I am a woman, or my "place" predetermined just by my gender. Because yes, if you say that you are not a feminist, then what are you? To me it means that you have a mold, into which women should fit.

But to me thats just it, you cant put all women down into a mold as if they all want the same thing. Just as all women don't want to be touched the same way, not all women want their doors held. Just because most women choose so called female professions, why does that mean that the one who wants to be a truck driver has to go through hell and all the put downs, and even antagonism from other women because she is not "a lady"?

To me feminism is about freedom and choice, many choices - a freedom to be a kajira, a stay at home mum, a carpenter, not to marry, and a right to do with your body as you want - so when someone says "I am not a feminist," what I hear is, "Only my choice is right, and all the others who don't fall into that mold, should be forcefully brought into the flock or eliminated". Because thats what it comes down to, so I have an equal distaste for those "militant" feminists and those who puff their chest and say that they aren't - because to me its a sign of ultimate disrespect and ungratefulness to all those women who came before them (throughout history) and fought to break the mold.



And off topic, you cant, in every, argument accuse someone of sophism. I wont even go into the argument about what Sophism really was or is. But in the derogatory sense that you are so fond of using, the prime example of it is, accusing another of sophistry as a persuasion technique.

[thir]

[COLOR="Magenta"]
To me feminism is about freedom and choice, many choices - a freedom to be a kajira, a stay at home mum, a carpenter, not to marry, and a right to do with your body as you want



You said it. And thought it is not a good idea to speak for others, I will venture the guess that that is what a vast majority of women - and men - wants.

[blythe spirit]

Historically speaking:

The conseptualization of what it means to be "feminine" ergo to be "female" existed for tens of thousands of years perhaps even longer (even before "language" fully developed) which is a far better example of precedance than any recent mis-conseptualization by the so called feminists....... who have managed to twist and transvaluate values (to quote niestche).

Thank you, again. This is basically what I referred to in my original post.

And, damyanti, thank you for "coming around." Your last paragraph (in bold) differs dramatically from your last paragraph in post #24. I believe that all women want their voice, but to be heard we sometimes have to whisper.

[Pearlgem]

I wonder what others think. Is it living the feminist ideal to make a living from your body or your looks and have that celebrated over achievements of the mind? I read of many women claiming that their materialistic, no-brainer lifestyle is practically a positive feminist choice when what they aspire to do is bag themselves a rich footballer-type husband. I wonder how far down the road you can stretch feminism this way? Is it feminist to be a model, to be involved in pornography, prostitution? As long as it it perceived to be a choice, is it acceptable, is it feminist? Does it matter?
Personally I think the pressure many women now face to have their vaginas surgically reconstructed is definitely a feminist issue!

[thir]

Giggles I just figured i better point out the irony in stereotyping catagorically.

"

Historically speaking:

The conseptualization of what it means to be "feminine" ergo to be "female" existed for tens of thousands of years perhaps even longer (even before "language" fully developed) which is a far better example of precedance than any recent mis-conseptualization by the so called feminists....... who have managed to twist and transvaluate values (to quote niestche).


[/I][/B]

The fact is that noone knows very much about how the early humans lived, except that it was probably a good life with quite easy access to all kinds of food.