BDSM And Feminism: Intertwined? How So?

[orchidsoul]

I've been reading and re-reading this thread trying to figure out how to properly express myself and Seri's comment just helped me... thank you.

[B][I]The real fact is:

Wemon have made choices throughout human history long long long before the advent of the so called "feminist" movement.

That's the thing- there's more than one feminist movement. It's a 'movement' that has been occurring since the 1700's, though around the mid 1800's began being more vocal in numbers, particularly beginning with the right to vote.

And it wasn't until the 1920 elections that we were allowed to vote for a President. Prior to that, as early as the mid 1700's (I think it was that early), there are a few instances granting women the right to vote in local elections. But often there were restrictions- married women technically owned nothing as it was their husbands, therefore were disqualified, leaving unmarried and widowed women allowed. The rules were not the same in each state either.

The feminist movement encompasses many arenas of equality and choice. From the right to vote, to education, to property rights, to birth control, to reproductive rights, to divorce, to domestic violence, to work force, to equal pay and much more. There literally was a time a woman could not go to school, or could not leave a man that was beating her let alone have the right to not be beaten.

So yes, women have been voicing their choices for many many moons... but it's taken years for various choices to be allowed

I've also had many issues with 'feminists' along the way. In college I took a Philosophy of Feminism course and tore apart in discussions half the books we read. I don't remember who, I think Friednan or Dworkin, but one of them went as far to say women should not get a physical by a male physician and condemn any woman who did. To me, this was precisely what 'we' were supposedly fighting for and why go forth and eliminate a gender?

I completely agree with Seri in the comparison of men and women. We have two different biological make-ups and there's no comparison. It's like apples and oranges.

Do I think that if I'm doing the same job as a man I should be paid the same? Absolutely. Do I think just because I'm a woman I have the right to do *any* job a man can? No- because I'm not physically capable of doing some of their jobs. I don't think anyone deserves a job based solely on gender. Don't get me wrong- if I'm strong enough I shouldn't be eliminated (I work in a physical industry and very much hold my own- but yeah, there are times the big boys move certain things because they can and some of us can't and I'm not remotely ashamed), but I don't see myself being capable of being a pipe fitter, or running a jack hammer 10hrs a day. Physical strength is the biggest difference imo, and it's a reality.

With that being said, without all the women who fought (and still fight) for the right to be an equal part of the work force, women would not be holding some of the positions in companies that they do today... and even still there's discrimination and discrepancies in pay.

All in all- for me it's about the right of choices for any individual. I don't believe we should be trying to replace or emasculate men, or be criticized for staying home with our children whether we're the mother or father, or not be allowed to love whomever we want regardless of their gender, or not be allowed to submit to a man or have a man submit to us, or not be allowed to want to be the breadwinner of the family, and so on and so forth.

Part of my choice is that I like the differences of men and women, in fact relish in them. I do happen to lean towards more traditional roles of a man and woman, even as a very independent woman, but that's most likely because it's not my only choice.

Yes, I'm a feminist by the definition that I believe in equal opportunities, autonomy over my body, and the ability to make my own choices as a woman and human being.

[orchidsoul]

in the interim of me taking forever to write my post, Damyanti you posted and talked about many of the same causes of feminism I did. You mention 'in your country women didn't have to fight for voting and had the right to work and equality before the law'- I was curious in what country you live (if you don't mind saying)?

And yes, practice is oh so different.