BDSM And Feminism: Intertwined? How So?

[MMI]

... funny how the men are avoiding this thread like a plague huh?

I haven't been avoiding this: I just hadn't noticed it. Topics on feminism rarely interest males.

And, to be honest, I haven't read the whole thread. It's too long now to catch up on - I don't have the time. It probably means that what I have to say has already been said and moved far beyond, but I still want to say it. Just to see what happens. The original posting (although apparently addressed exclusively to women) said, Answer what you want, ignore what you don't, add anything you think deserves to be covered. I think that permits me to chip in.

First, I should say, I'm hostile towards feminism. I can't justify my position: feminism just gets under my skin. That's another reason to ignore it. Feminism, to me, is the female equivalent of what used to be dubbed "male chauvinism." Male chauvinist pigs, actually, but "pigs" was added out of spite.

To me, feminism is a theory. It's a political theory which holds that males have always and intentionaly regarded women as inferior and have therefore subjugated them, and at times, owned them. It therefore advocates "equality," but I sometimes see that as an attempt to gain an advantage: for example, men only organisations are discriminatory, but female only organisations are not - they are woman's right, they are necessary to restore imbalance, they are necessary to prevent woman from having to cope with man's unending and unwanted sexual advances.

They ban competition and contests in schools (where they have become the ruling majority) because females prefer to co-operate than to compete. And the education system is also becoming increasingly feminised. Boys no longer receive the discipline necessary to make them work as hard as girls do, but female teachers are unable to deliver it.

Women are increasingly inclined to raise children on their own, denying their kids necesssary male contact as they grow up.

The workplace is becoming increasingly feminised. Equal pay is a good thing, as is equal opportunity. But from my perspective, males' salaries have been held back because there are so many married females entering - flooding - the workforce to earn extra money, whom the employers can pay less. Already there are masses of unemployed young males, who are increasingly disaffected and who have few prospects ahead of them. No prospects, that is, apart from crime and violence.

Women have invented an academic study of their own sexual history. The implication is they regard the rest of history as "male history" (and therefore sexist and an impediment to female advancement) but it isn't, it's human history - reflecting the gradual evolution of the race from primitive "ape" to members of a modern and advanced society.

History is history, and facts are facts. I cannot deny the truth of much of the original proposition. But I deny the word "always". And I reject the suggestion that all males have believed in their inate superiority. I haven't, for one, and I grew up in the 50's and 60's, before The Female Eunuch appeared. I always regarded women as women and men as men - the obverse and reverse of the coin of humankind.

The suggestion that men are rapists, predators, pervets is an outragous slander on half of humanity. However you cut it, there is no way that 50% of the people on this world meet that description. A few do, and feminists blacken the whole male sex by extension.

I know "modern girls" don't think that way, and still have legitimate complaints that they are not "fully equal". I long for the time when they are, and can acknowledge it. Maybe they'll be able to treat men as equals then.

As for BDSM and feminism? I have never entertained the two ideas in my head at the same time.

[lucy]

They ban competition and contests in schools (where they have become the ruling majority) because females prefer to co-operate than to compete. And the education system is also becoming increasingly feminised. Boys no longer receive the discipline necessary to make them work as hard as girls do, but female teachers are unable to deliver it.

You're right. Boys need male rolemodels. And women can't provide that. But i don't think male teachers were actually forced out of schools. They went to get more lucrative jobs, probably. Besides all that, schools should not be responsibe to raise kids, but to educate them. Raising the kids is their parents job. And unfortunately, the men tend to be much more at work than back home, with their kids.

The workplace is becoming increasingly feminised. Equal pay is a good thing, as is equal opportunity. But from my perspective, males' salaries have been held back because there are so many married females entering - flooding - the workforce to earn extra money, whom the employers can pay less. Already there are masses of unemployed young males, who are increasingly disaffected and who have few prospects ahead of them. No prospects, that is, apart from crime and violence.

So i should step down from my job, find me a husband, have a couple of kids and stay home? Just so a guy who spent his whole youth with his playstation while i worked and studied and learned can have it? Do i understand that right?
Besides, there are always prospects apart from crime and violence. But i think the youngsters need to learn that. And i also think that "victimizing the offenders" doesn't really help anyone, least the one who need help most, in this case the young unemployed males.

I know "modern girls" don't think that way, and still have legitimate complaints that they are not "fully equal". I long for the time when they are, and can acknowledge it. Maybe they'll be able to treat men as equals then.

Yes, i fully second that.

[AdrianaAurora]

[QUOTE=MMI;726460]

First, I should say, I'm hostile towards feminism. I can't justify my position: feminism just gets under my skin. That's another reason to ignore it. Feminism, to me, is the female equivalent of what used to be dubbed "male chauvinism." Male chauvinist pigs, actually, but "pigs" was added out of spite.

You are certainly entitled to your sentiment.

Pigs? How about - whore, worthless piece of trash, you are not a real woman...

Female chauvinism is equal to male chauvinism; and it has about as much place in Feminism as does terrorism in Islam.

I did call some men chauvinists, because they were. I am not proud of it, but I did, silently in my head (I would never give them the pleasure) call some men pigs. I never used the two terms together. Do you know what we mean when we call men pigs? It means we usually had our heart broken, and what we really mean is, "all men hurt you". Its not rational, but love rarely is.

To me, feminism is a theory. It's a political theory which holds that males have always and intentionaly regarded women as inferior and have therefore subjugated them, and at times, owned them.

Feminism is a social "theory", not a political one.

It therefore advocates "equality," but I sometimes see that as an attempt to gain an advantage: for example, men only organisations are discriminatory, but female only organisations are not - they are woman's right, they are necessary to restore imbalance, they are necessary to prevent woman from having to cope with man's unending and unwanted sexual advances.

Ever occurred to you that it feels "like an attempt to gain advantage" because you had it so long and you don't want to give it up? You are for equality, you would just like to be the ones who determine what that is.

They ban competition and contests in schools (where they have become the ruling majority) because females prefer to co-operate than to compete. And the education system is also becoming increasingly feminised. Boys no longer receive the discipline necessary to make them work as hard as girls do, but female teachers are unable to deliver it.

Women make up 52 percent of the world's population, I suppose the shocking thing of those girls daring to aim for higher eduction might seem like "the education system is also becoming increasingly feminised".

Females prefer to co-operate than to compete? In the above statement you said that feminists are trying to "gain an advantage", so how is lack of competition our fault?

Women are increasingly inclined to raise children on their own, denying their kids necesssary male contact as they grow up.

You mean like those women who use pregnancy to hook a man into marriage? Women who have a batch of children by just as many men, who whore around (but its not PC to call them what they are)? Serial divorcées? Those who trash their ex husbands, but talk to me about religion, marriage and my place? Yes, those women exactly fit the bill of feminists.

Everything else is just intellectual, but this statement to me feels personal. What I love the most about my husband is how good of a father he is. We have been through thick and thin, and I can tell you one thing - we are staying together. To me there is no greater sanctity than marriage, and yet I see all this women who potrey themselves as "real women/ladies" yet go from one husband to another. And if by any chance something happened between the two of us and we ended up divorced, our kids would make the unbreakable bond, I would do everything in my power to remain friends or at least civil. And even if I ended up hating his guts, our kids would never hear a word against him from lips.

The workplace is becoming increasingly feminised. Equal pay is a good thing, as is equal opportunity. But from my perspective, males' salaries have been held back because there are so many married females entering - flooding - the workforce to earn extra money, whom the employers can pay less. Already there are masses of unemployed young males, who are increasingly disaffected and who have few prospects ahead of them. No prospects, that is, apart from crime and violence.

So what exactly am I supposed to do with my time? Run around town, shopping and looking for bargains? I hate shopping. And I have no need for it, I am on a mailing lists of some major designer houses, they send me preview catalogs, I pick what I want and they deliver it in my size. I have a housekeeper. My son goes to loads of activities and an excellent school. Me working creates at least a dozen jobs.

How about those "young males" start behaving like men and start taking responsibility for their own actions and start earning things by working for them. Just like I did, three times harder (!) because of my looks, the color of my hair and because I am a woman. How about - I do all the work and "the male" can take the credit, that would be equal, right.

The reason I make more money than most men is because I am damn good at my job. I have a head for business and negotiations. So I work on a "special contract". There are not that many women working in my field, but those that are, most of them are paid less than their male counterparts. But instead of taking it with the boss, they hate my guts, cant tell you how that makes me feel crushed.

Women have invented an academic study of their own sexual history. The implication is they regard the rest of history as "male history" (and therefore sexist and an impediment to female advancement) but it isn't, it's human history - reflecting the gradual evolution of the race from primitive "ape" to members of a modern and advanced society.

History is history, and facts are facts. I cannot deny the truth of much of the original proposition. But I deny the word "always".

We agree on this. So if this is the advanced society, why do some keep trying to turn back the clock?


And I reject the suggestion that all males have believed in their inate superiority. I haven't, for one, and I grew up in the 50's and 60's, before The Female Eunuch appeared. I always regarded women as women and men as men - the obverse and reverse of the coin of humankind.

No, not all males, there were exceptions like Francis Bacon. Not all man treated women as dirt. But 99% treated women with patronizing condescension, some women rose above that. And how did they do that, how did they earn "full" respect? By showing "balls".

Female Eunich? ROTFLMF(thats feminist)AO. I love my Husbands balls. I love that He is a man enough to handle the whole of me, I love that He can do that without me having to pretend to be dumber, weaker or diminish myself in any way so He can feel stronger. He doesn't need an edge, He is simply the best always.

The suggestion that men are rapists, predators, pervets is an outragous slander on half of humanity. However you cut it, there is no way that 50% of the people on this world meet that description. A few do, and feminists blacken the whole male sex by extension.

Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.

In 1995, 354,670 women were the victims of a rape or sexual assault. (NationalCrime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996.)

Over the last two years, more than 787,000 women were the victim of a rape or sexual assault. (National Crime Victimization Survey. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S.Department of Justice, 1996.)

The FBI estimates that 72 of every 100,000 females in the United States were raped last year. (Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime Statistics, 1996.)

One of the most startling aspects of sex crimes is how many go unreported. The most common reasons given by women for not reporting these crimes are the belief that it is a private or personal matter and the fear of reprisal from the assailant.

Approximately 28% of victims are raped by husbands or boyfriends, 35% by acquaintances, and 5% by other relatives. (Violence against Women, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dept. of Justice, 1994)

The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

In 1994-1995, only 251,560 rapes and sexual assaults were reported to law enforcement officials -- less than one in every three. (National Crime Victimization Survey, Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, 1996.)

And thats just U.S.


I know "modern girls" don't think that way, and still have legitimate complaints that they are not "fully equal". I long for the time when they are, and can acknowledge it. Maybe they'll be able to treat men as equals then.

There are men who are "feminists" too. My Husband proudly calls Himself one. He is at the Library under the Demon Dom nick, so you can check out His stand on things. Funny, how real men such as Him never complain about feminists.

If anything Feminism also gave new opportunities to men, such as to stay at home, spend more time with their children...

I am a feminist, my poise and decorum is always in place and to Him I am priceless. Am I a lady or not? ROTFLMFAO, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.






I have no beef with you MMI, you just summarized in a really articulate and comprehensive way the crap I have to deal with every single day of my life. I just wish you could be me for one day, to see what it feels like.