Protecting your reputation

[bambina]

I have so many fantasies about this lifestyle that I want to act out. But I also have plans for the future where reputation is key. I don't want BDSM activities to come back several years from now and bite me in the backside. For example, right now I'm a student. But lets say I was a regular at a BDSM club in DC. And then, 11 years later, I become a congressman. My face is very unique an recognizable. I am not easily forgotten, especially since I look like a kid. I could never blend in in an adult atmosphere. I don't want news reporters or gossip columnists coming up to me and asking "We've heard from several sources that you use to go to BDSM clubs. Is that true? Are you a sadist? Masochist? We have pictures of you at the club having a drink with a Dominatrix. Please explain." Stuff like that could cause me to lose my job and reputation. As a nobody, it wouldn't matter who knew and who didn't. If I were somebody who simply worked a desk job and had no real dreams to do anything big then a few people knowing what I'm into wouldn't matter. And those few people probably wouldn't care to share what a nobody does on her spare time anyways. But I have big plans for my future and people deliberately dig up garbage on successful people (like basketball players, news reporters, politicians, celebrities, etc...). I'm afraid to take that next step in this lifestyle because I fear it'll come back to haunt me. What do I do? Do I just accept the fact that there are just some things that I'll never be able to experience (like going to a real slave auction or a huge BDSM event)?

[DowntownAmber]

I have a sneaking suspicion you already know the answer to this question.

I don't advertise my kinks to the rest of the world, but I also don't operate under the cross-my-fingers-and-hope-for-the-best wishful mentality that no one other than the people I really want to will ever find out. In all reality, at any given moment one person with a big mouth or one picture could make my private life public fodder.

Simply bambina, assume that people are going to find out. Maybe they won't (Hell, more than likely they won't even come close to figuring it out to the degree you fear), but ASSUME they will and just ask yourself if it's worth it to you when they do. If you can handle a reporter flipping a picture of you in a BDSM club on your desk by grinning and saying, "oh I remember that! It was a stage of exploration in my life that really worked out/didn't work out for me. Now, let's talk about something current and relevant to my work..." then by all means go play. If you think, on the other hand, you won't be able to deal with the attacks then, sorry, stay out of the clubs and away from the events.

Long story short, never gamble with more than you can afford to lose.

[Mastrovenice]

Not to scare you, but even your every word typed can be a liability. The internet lives forever, and we have all traded our privacy for the joys of interconnectivity. Not that it is easy to uncover blind aliases, but I'm sure an enterprising reporter/investigator may have their ways. More likely it would be someone you knew either intimately or tangentially would 'out' you if they thought they could gain by it, or spite you.

However, living in fear is no way to carry out one's life. And as for public events, that's what masks are for (or hoods of you or yours are so inclined)! And if you're outed, at least you'll get the BDSM vote!

[damyanti]

Amber made a very good point.

As someone who is in a similar situation...highly ambitious and highly private as a person...

So how I deal with it...I know who I am, I am not ashamed of what I do, I don't think that indulging into BDSM is anything bad as such.......I am very careful about sharing my picture, very careful about people I interact with and careful to the point of paranoid about who I play with.

Don't play in public or at least be extra extra careful about who and where, avoid situations that could result in headlines containing words "money" and "favor", avoid underage participants, married ones...

So if it ever came to..."We've heard from several sources that you use to go to BDSM clubs. Is that true? Are you a sadist? Masochist? We have pictures of you at the club having a drink with a Dominatrix. Please explain.".....my answer would be "Yeah, so what, your point being? Now if we could concentrate on business at hand..." and make a mental note to sue them for invasion of privacy.

But I should point out that I am from Europe and we look at things differently. Private lives of politicians are not nearly as big a deal here as they seem to be in US, and even when they do come to attention, they don't play much (if any) importance in the voting booth.

There was a big scandal here this year involving Max Mosley (the president of FIA, a governing body for Formula One and other international motorsports)...nobody even blinked about BDSM aspects of it, the point of contention was that he used prostitutes and Nazi insignia in play (a sensitive matter due to his parents close ties to Hitler) and that his wife of 30 years knew nothing about it. Anyway he kept his job, sued the newspapers, won the (landmark) case...and few moths later it has already almost faded from public memory.

So if the worst happens just do as those gay pastors...say the Devil tempted you, go to some retreat and two moths later come back "cured"...and use it to your advantage

[masterdw]

Remember Elliot Spitzer? Multi millionaire, governor of New York, till his propensity for prostitutes was exposed. You might be able to get away with a one to one relationship if you trust the other person, but public BDSM events and public service don't go together.

[shyslut]

how about going whole hog and having a nice well fitting customizable 3/4 face mask made. Pick out a scene name. Wear your mask and stick to your scene name. I think its a very nice compromise!

[LewisC]

babmina, why don't you try a strictly on-line D/s relationship. If you want to try, write to me at biggreek100@aol.com. I'm a writer for the bdsmlibrary and you can check my work there. I will never chase you or pester you. I'll make a point of finding out what you want and need and I'll give that to you without complicatons. Master Lewis Chappelle

[chalsia]

i have read this post several times. So here are my two cents worth.
You are worried about your appearance, well don't. People who attended there come in all shapes and sizes and all kinds of appearances. If they want to remember you they remember you if you look old or young or thin or fat. They will remember you for who and what you are, not for the size or shape or look you portray. Two, what and who is a nobody? Are you making some assumptions here that may or not be happening. Without going to much into my own situation i used to think a bit on the same lines as yours. Went to munches 100's of miles away, even took great care to sorta conceal my identity. How shallow of me. What made me think i was so much of a *somebody* to have to go through so much trouble. But all this comes with time and the comfort level you build up with you and your group. Nine times out of ten now I know exactly who will be at what event and yes now i'm actually comfortable with who and what i'm. Will there be people who will not agree with how i choose my life? of course they are. But people will also scrutinize your friends, your family, your neighbors and so on. I suppose you will have to make up your own mind.
One last afterthought, if you are interested in a large bdsm event. Simply go. You be surprised who attends those things. In addition everyone signs a privacy waver and well the last one i attended i saw a football star and a political figure. it would never ever occur to me to point fingers at them. Would you? perhaps in a way this community as kinky and *un-normal* we are portrayed, we still have more honor then the rest of the world.
And lastly, you can always find a more private setting, there are play parties with smaller numbers all around the country. Get to know some of those members, they can become a family. And a family you prolly can trust more then your natural one.
Well i rambled enough.

[leo9]

Remember Elliot Spitzer? Multi millionaire, governor of New York, till his propensity for prostitutes was exposed. You might be able to get away with a one to one relationship if you trust the other person, but public BDSM events and public service don't go together.

Alternatively, and more recently (though in Britain), remember Max Mosley. Boss of Formula One Racing, guest of Prime Ministers, controling sponsorship deals worth ooh-LOTS. News of the World ran a splash about him hiring a bunch of pro Dommes and subs for an afternoon's role-playing: presumably they assumed that, as usual, he'd be too scared to fight back.

He wasn't. He took them to court for invasion of privacy, denied nothing, simply said it was none of their business. And the court agreed and fined them a packet: and even more encouragingly, the Formula One owners agreed and kept him in his job. And for the most part, the British public agreed too.

Things have changed, are changing; it's not the Twentieth Century any more. By the time you're in Congress (can't fault your confidence), being exposed as a BDSMer will probably be a big so-what. When I was your age, being outed as gay would be the end of anyone's career. Now it's on their CV.

In short, relax. You're bending yourself out of shape for something that will probably never happen, but if it does, probably won't matter.

[blythe spirit]

Things have changed, are changing; it's not the Twentieth Century any more. By the time you're in Congress (can't fault your confidence), being exposed as a BDSMer will probably be a big so-what. When I was your age, being outed as gay would be the end of anyone's career. Now it's on their CV.

In short, relax. You're bending yourself out of shape for something that will probably never happen, but if it does, probably won't matter.

Amen to that!

[angelic.zest]

well im not much of a "somebody" to really care if ppl see and recongize me at a bdsm group munch or event. the particular group i attend, has all walks of life, there's doctors, lawyers, housewifees and blue collar workers in this group, and everyone attend the meetings and play parties for the same reason...to socialize with ppl who share the same interest..BDSM!

i guess over time when you become abit more comfortable with yourself, with your likes your dislikes and realizing that these ppl dont make you, and you can't make everyone happy..then you'll see that all this worry about "reputation" mightve been abit much!

[guest010609]

I have so many fantasies about this lifestyle that I want to act out. But I also have plans for the future where reputation is key. I don't want BDSM activities to come back several years from now and bite me in the backside. For example, right now I'm a student. But lets say I was a regular at a BDSM club in DC. And then, 11 years later, I become a congressman. My face is very unique an recognizable. I am not easily forgotten, especially since I look like a kid. I could never blend in in an adult atmosphere. I don't want news reporters or gossip columnists coming up to me and asking "We've heard from several sources that you use to go to BDSM clubs. Is that true? Are you a sadist? Masochist? We have pictures of you at the club having a drink with a Dominatrix. Please explain." Stuff like that could cause me to lose my job and reputation. As a nobody, it wouldn't matter who knew and who didn't. If I were somebody who simply worked a desk job and had no real dreams to do anything big then a few people knowing what I'm into wouldn't matter. And those few people probably wouldn't care to share what a nobody does on her spare time anyways. But I have big plans for my future and people deliberately dig up garbage on successful people (like basketball players, news reporters, politicians, celebrities, etc...). I'm afraid to take that next step in this lifestyle because I fear it'll come back to haunt me. What do I do? Do I just accept the fact that there are just some things that I'll never be able to experience (like going to a real slave auction or a huge BDSM event)?

Hi! Ok, well, this is just me; and I'm a bit nuts . But honestly there is nothing that I won't do for reasons of protecting my reputation. And, as a public humiliation junkie that is saying a lot. I do see what you mean, as I have intents of becoming a Literature professor at a University, and certainly things I do now, and will do could have a negative impact, however, my relationship and my very nature is far more important to me than societal moores. I don't in any way mean to sound judgemental; I'm just speaking of my personal view on the topic, and I know that this is just not acceptable to many, many people.

[bambina]

I guess I see what you are saying. But what about family? All else might go well with the public but how could I ever face my family at Thanks Giving and Christmas if they knew that I did such things? They probably wouldn't let me go near the children. Hell, would I even be invited? My mom already told me (as one of her 'serious' jokes) not to bother showing my face to the family again if I brought home a women. Though I am not a lesbian or bi-sexual, the fact that something COULD cause my family to disown me causes me great concern. You'd think family would love you or accept you no matter what but I've been warned ahead of time that there are exceptions.

[blythe spirit]

I truly do understand your dilemma, bambina; however, there comes a point in life, where you have to decide what's more important to you. You only go around once, and if you're going to let everyone dictate what you should or should not do, than you're going to live the life "they" want and not the one that brings you pleasure.

When you look back many, many years from now - what do you want that person in the mirror to say to you? Honesly, you can't live in fear your whole life wondering what others will think of you, because there's going to be people who judge you no matter what kind of life you live.

And if, at this point, you are just that fearful, than perhaps you should put your wants and needs on hold temporarily.

Whatever you decide, I wish you well.

[MissConfused]

bambina I guess you are facing the same difficult question that closet gays face; "what if someone finds out?"

I guess the best answer would be how badly do you want to experience BDSM and what price are you willing to pay?

[guest010609]

I guess I see what you are saying. But what about family? All else might go well with the public but how could I ever face my family at Thanks Giving and Christmas if they knew that I did such things? They probably wouldn't let me go near the children. Hell, would I even be invited? My mom already told me (as one of her 'serious' jokes) not to bother showing my face to the family again if I brought home a women. Though I am not a lesbian or bi-sexual, the fact that something COULD cause my family to disown me causes me great concern. You'd think family would love you or accept you no matter what but I've been warned ahead of time that there are exceptions.

Well, that's one that we have encountered at one time or another from all parts of our families. Eventually, they have gotten over it, though they don't care for our choices. I guess it's a matter of figuring out, in some sort of order, what your priorities are. For me, the rest of my life just turns dank and pointless when things aren't right between my Master and myself. One of the things that makes us "right" are the rather public games we play... particularly regarding his sexual encounters with other girls and other various humiliations. If we stopped this sort of play, our families would be happier, but we wouldn't be and the rest of our life together would suffer for that. I'm sorry- that's the best that I've got right now. I'll try to come up with something more helpful later.

[rsjankowski]

we got reputations? sweet, hope mine is a good one. no really regardless of our wants and desires, regardless of how we live, even if it's squeaky clean, people will look up anything on a celebrity/official/or spokesperson. best thing is go once or twice, make contacts, and leave it at that, and work off the contacts. the people you meet once they are in you rtrusting loop generally will do what they can to work with you and help keep your reputation, but if it's a real main concern you might even watch out for that as anyone specially the ones we trust with our secrets may blackmail you into all sorts of dumb things, even into servitude. oh wait, submissive is already covered. hm maybe something else you wouldn't want. anycase. just be careful.

[cookiecat]

Take it one step at a time.

What is the likelihood that you will go to a real slave auction? A big BDSM event?

I think the example of Elliot Spitzer - although a good cautionary story - is a little different. It's something he was currently doing & it's illegal.

Expirimenting in this venue is a little different; you can always chalk it up to young hijinks...

If it's a "lifestyle" you choose to continue living, then it's something you need to reconcile.

But I go back to take it a little slower. When you do get that invite to the real slave auction, then come back and ask the question.

[fellintobed]

I'm afraid to take that next step in this lifestyle because I fear it'll come back to haunt me. What do I do? Do I just accept the fact that there are just some things that I'll never be able to experience (like going to a real slave auction or a huge BDSM event)?

This may not be the answer you want to hear, but -- I think so, yes. I have a delicious fantasy involving being led down a public street naked, bound, and leashed... but that's certainly something I'll never be able to experience. As delightful as fantasies are, the reality of life does come first. If you have determined to steer yourself towards a high-profile job, you really DO have to take that into account when deciding how much to involve yourself in the BDSM scene. I have known others who have limited their behavior or chosen not to partake in certain activities in order to protect themselves. It's disappointing, it's frustrating... but ultimately, if that career is worth it, you'll be satisfied for it.

Now does that mean you shouldn't get involved in BDSM at all? Of course not. It just means you'll have to play much more carefully. Few people are truly open about their BDSM lifestyle in real life - think about how many subs in 24/7 D/s relationships wear subtle collars designed to be mistaken for jewelry. I have been to BDSM clubs and swingers parties and never once seen a camera - even those of us who don't want high-power jobs don't want our private lives to be made public. Play cautiously, play discreetly, and accept that our choices dictate our actions. Enjoy what you are able to experience. Have hot hot fantasies about the things that are off-limits for practical reasons.

[fetishdj]

All you can really do is take precautions. One of them may be to have a seperate e-mail account for anything BDSM related - use to to communicate with people in the scene, sign up for forums and so on. One way to trace someone's internet traces is via their e-mail address. Also think common sense - never access BDSM sites at work (those internet logs *do* get looked at even if they are never acted on so someone in the IT department is likely to know what you are looking at), never give out personal details unless you absolutely trust the person involved, make sure your ID is protected in any published photographs (masks etc are useful here) and so on.

I think the tide is changing and things are getting easier for BDSM in the real world but it is still going to be a while before it happens fully (and any lifestylers in politics have to be sure to help this along if they can) so it may one day be less of a stigma.

I think the scene itself is good with regards to keeping things stum so you don't need to worry about being outed by someone at an event. The risks are any journalists who attend the events incognito in the hope of getting a scoop...

BTW, on the Mosely situation... not sure it was just the BDSM he was being done for in teh tabloids. It was also the Nazi trappings he was using for the session in question. If anyone knows pre WWII British history particularly well, you may remember who his father was and what he stood for.

[leo9]

BTW, on the Mosely situation... not sure it was just the BDSM he was being done for in teh tabloids. It was also the Nazi trappings he was using for the session in question. If anyone knows pre WWII British history particularly well, you may remember who his father was and what he stood for.

That was the "public interest" excuse they invoked to justify devoting so much space to what their readers were obviously expected to enjoy just as a "rich bloke's kinky capers" story.

It was a thin excuse even if it had been true - it might be slightly important if a politician had Nazi fantasies, but a motor racing boss? - but it was exposed as a joke in court. They claimed it was "Nazi" because the main Domme was speaking German (for the very good reason that she was German), but they never bothered to get a translation to find out that there was nothing in her lines that would fit a Nazi scene!

[fetishdj]

Oh indeed... but the point was that what made that story so prominent (and, as you say, the alleged 'public interest') was the added spin of his famous nazi supporting relative. Whether or not it is true, it still was the 'fact' that put it on the front page. So, any BDSMer needs to consider this when making lifestyle choices. A 'bit of slap and tickle' may someday soon be seen as harmless to a career (though at present it is not quite that way) but scenes linked to controversial topics like cannibalism, Nazis, black slave trade (quite a common one from what I have heard), Jewish roleplay, religious roleplay or anything to do with children will be an instant target for front page news.

[fellintobed]

Oh indeed... but the point was that what made that story so prominent (and, as you say, the alleged 'public interest') was the added spin of his famous nazi supporting relative. Whether or not it is true, it still was the 'fact' that put it on the front page. So, any BDSMer needs to consider this when making lifestyle choices. A 'bit of slap and tickle' may someday soon be seen as harmless to a career (though at present it is not quite that way) but scenes linked to controversial topics like cannibalism, Nazis, black slave trade (quite a common one from what I have heard), Jewish roleplay, religious roleplay or anything to do with children will be an instant target for front page news.

Or animals... there was a fellow who died in Washington State from complications following sex with a horse. He wasn't anyone famous, but it was ALL over the news. I felt terrible for his family (and him, but it was his choice to go for the horse, not theirs). Front page BDSM news for non-famous people does tend to center around accidental deaths, so those wishing to protect their reputations have another reason to be very careful, especially if they're drawn to edgeplay.

[denuseri]

bambina:

I totally understand where you are coming from.

Especially since I am in school to become a history teacher someday.

My own mother doesnt even know my kink and i am her home care provider!

Let alone the rest of my family or the people I work and go to school with in the vanilla world.

Though the girls at the strip club (who I see as half-vanilla) and my gyn are in on it (no way to keep the gyn out of my business really) lol.

Other than here, the rest of the world has no business knowing my sexual "business"; if you know what I mean vanilla or otherwise.

[leah06]

Things have changed, are changing; it's not the Twentieth Century any more. By the time you're in Congress (can't fault your confidence), being exposed as a BDSMer will probably be a big so-what. When I was your age, being outed as gay would be the end of anyone's career. Now it's on their CV.

In short, relax. You're bending yourself out of shape for something that will probably never happen, but if it does, probably won't matter.

Bambina, I totally agree with the people who tell you to be very, very careful. I hope that we will get to a time where people's private business is seen as irrelevant to their job performance, but I think we are getting further from that, not closer. I also disagree with some of the posts on here that seem to be telling you to get over yourself. You are completely right that there are some professions that invite scrutiny and some that don't seem to, although as we read about all the time, people in less high-profile jobs often find their private activities coming back to bite them in the butt anyway.

The one thing I want to add to the discussion is gender, and to an extent, race. The examples cited of public people with some kinks who were not destroyed by their revelation were white men. I very much question whether a woman in our society could salvage a political career if she dismissed previous bdsm experience as youthful exploration. Do you think Hilary Clinton could have? What if she'd had the young intern going down on her in her office? What if she'd merely had oral sex outside of her marriage? Female sexuality is very threatening to many people and I don't see that changing soon. As to race, you don't need me to mention that people of color might be held to different standards.

My advice? Be afraid, be very afraid. Does that mean to deny an integral part of yourself? No, but you'll need to tread a fine line.

[guest010609]

Rachel06, I'm not sure if who's posts you were refering to in this statement:

I also disagree with some of the posts on here that seem to be telling you to get over yourself.

Just in case mine was being grouped in with those though, I just wanted to point out that I am not saying that it isn't something reasonable to fear, merely that I don't choose to care, and it is irrelevent to our decision making. If I lose a job, it doesn't matter to me, because my career is not of great significance to me...I'll just find another. With regard to family and friends, again, we just choose not to care what they think about what we do. Certainly though, everyone's priorities are different. Additionally, I am speaking from within the context of a 13 year, married M/s relationship. What is applicable to my situation may not be a person in a different one.

[Laila]

I completely understand what your saying (although i do have to say that keep being shocked at how much the private life of politicians is being dragged into the public eye in America, but that's a different subject)

For me the ambitions are less lofty - I just dream about being a writer. And for now I want to write erotica. But it will completely drag me out of the closet should my greatest dream of being published should ever come true. Hell, even in non-erotica there are usually D/s themes involved.

Sure you might say, write under a psydonym - but how could I not tell my mother that my greatest dream has come true?
Part of me thinks that maybe I could write it so that it is accessible to vanilla people and not just weird and perverted, but its still scary.

So, I agree with some of the above. Maybe you do have to consider the possibility that there are certain things you can never do - after all we all make priorities for what we want. I have high respect for you because you do.

[sinderella]

I have so many fantasies about this lifestyle that I want to act out. But I also have plans for the future where reputation is key. I don't want BDSM activities to come back several years from now and bite me in the backside. For example, right now I'm a student. But lets say I was a regular at a BDSM club in DC. And then, 11 years later, I become a congressman. My face is very unique an recognizable. I am not easily forgotten, especially since I look like a kid. I could never blend in in an adult atmosphere. I don't want news reporters or gossip columnists coming up to me and asking "We've heard from several sources that you use to go to BDSM clubs. Is that true? Are you a sadist? Masochist? We have pictures of you at the club having a drink with a Dominatrix. Please explain." Stuff like that could cause me to lose my job and reputation. As a nobody, it wouldn't matter who knew and who didn't. If I were somebody who simply worked a desk job and had no real dreams to do anything big then a few people knowing what I'm into wouldn't matter. And those few people probably wouldn't care to share what a nobody does on her spare time anyways. But I have big plans for my future and people deliberately dig up garbage on successful people (like basketball players, news reporters, politicians, celebrities, etc...). I'm afraid to take that next step in this lifestyle because I fear it'll come back to haunt me. What do I do? Do I just accept the fact that there are just some things that I'll never be able to experience (like going to a real slave auction or a huge BDSM event)?

in the past, i was invited several times to events like this and was assured that every person there respects the privacy and anonymity of every other person, and you very well may encounter someone you know but it was an unspoken rule that that knowledge would never leave the scene. i keep my interest in this 'lifestyle' private not out of shame but because it is a very personal part of myself, and i safeguard those things fervently. what if someone DOES find out someday? you haven't done anything illegal or harmful to anyone...denying it is denying your true nature, and in my book that is the real travesty. p.s. i am a successful professional, and if someone DID discover my 'secret', it wouldn't make any difference in my career. the only person who matters to me is my child, and having to explain something as complex and deeply personal as this to someone you are bound to protect.

[leo9]

For me the ambitions are less lofty - I just dream about being a writer. And for now I want to write erotica. But it will completely drag me out of the closet should my greatest dream of being published should ever come true. Hell, even in non-erotica there are usually D/s themes involved.

Sure you might say, write under a psydonym - but how could I not tell my mother that my greatest dream has come true?

I had to think hard when I had my first book published, because, while not erotic per se, it has some pretty explicit sex and a bisexual hero. I decided in the end to face it square on, put my own name on the cover and present it to my father with pride. He took it in the spirit that was intended.

Part of me thinks that maybe I could write it so that it is accessible to vanilla people and not just weird and perverted, but its still scary.

That would be a VERY good thing to do, for all of our sakes. There are a few good non-fiction books presenting BDSM to vanillas, but what we really, badly need are readable novels where BDSMers are not monsters or indequates, just people. I'm trying to write one myself, but I failed once because I couldn't decide if I was writing for the erotica or the mainstream market, and now I know how to make it better, I can't find time.

The model that I'm trying to follow is Dick Francis' racing thrillers. You don't need to like horses or racing to enjoy them, but they'll make you appreciate why people like those things. I want to do the same for people who may not understand BDSM, but will come as they read to appreciate why we do what we do.

(Unfortunately Francis is also a model for why we need such books, because he's totally bigotted about BDSM himself. If any character is into spanking, or carries a whip in hir luggage, it's certain sie will turn out to be a viciously perverted villain at the end.)

Good luck.