Quote Originally Posted by MMI View Post
Very revealing post, Thorne.

1. You clearly know what your dollar is worth, but you don't care what it can buy if it doesn't buy it for you.
And your point? Of course that's my primary concern! That's why I work for a living. That's the whole point of it, after all.

2. I'm not sure I agree with what you say about North Koreans and Muscovites, but I'm not in a position to argue against it. But you can't tell a starving person he's not hungry and make him believe it! You can't tell the world that there's no cholera in your country, when hundreds of refugees are spilling over your borders, dying of the disease.
No, you can't do that, but you can make him think it's someone else's fault.

3. I wish Britain would invade Zimbabwe because Mugabe is killing his citizens by violence, neglect and design. He has contempt for his people and for all nations, because he feels safe inside his borders and when travelling on a diplomatic passport. Zimbabwe, formerly Rhodesia was a British colony. That gives us a "paternal" interest in the well-being of the people of that country and a duty to help them. If the African countries surrounding Zimbabwe are too blind to see what's going on over the borders, then it's up to us.

You bet I'm willing to use force against Mugabe and his ilk to prevent mass deaths of the innocent. Is what I propose any different from invading Iraq to protect the Kurds?
No different, I agree. And actually, in this instance, I tend to agree with you: the people there would probably be better off if we could move in and oust Mugabe.
After all, look how much happier the Iraqis are, now that Saddam is gone. (My, the irony is hot tonight!)

4. I thought it was your argument that Latin American countries tried to keep their citizens ignorant of the wealth that could be had in the north.
No, that's the communist countries, primarily. The Latin American countries, primarily Mexico, are more interested in foisting off their surplus populations on the US, letting them know how to get here, helping them even. It's better for the leaders' pocketbooks if the poor go north than if they stay and raise a rebellion.

5. OK - Let's say that, in the case of North Korea, this is true. Does that justify not trying to help them. And if the answer is "yes" does it also justify not trying to help anyone else (unless they say thank-you nicely).
If the only way to help them is to invade their country, like in Iraq or, as you suggest, Zimbabwe, then perhaps not helping them is justified. Invading could result in far more deaths of innocent civilians than starvation would.
And I don't expect a thank you. Just don't hate us for trying to help.

6. I have conceded ignorance might be a factor in N Korea. Not anywhere else.

... In my opinion, that is.
Please understand, by ignorance I mean lack of education and/or information, not lack of intelligence. And that kind of ignorance can be found anywhere.