Bush's Place in History.

[Belgarold]

In the future people will lough at the effort to reinstate the mythical loss of Habeas Corpus and other American freedoms when not one person has been prosecuted or mistreated by the added protection given to the country by the actions Pres. Bush has taken to protect the country during a time of war. What did you expect Bush to do? You can not open the door wide for terrorist to walk right in. They have shown us what they will do. Be specific, what freedoms do you want reinstated?

Just want it stated that the above is simply your opinion as well. It does not bear up to the facts that are still coming out. So just be aware, the info you posted to Thorne bear true for you as well. Just an opinion.

And I would like privacy rules reinstated, It has been proven that the collection of data from phone calls was NOT just for Terrorist phone calls, it was EVERYBODY's phone calls.

And I don't know, we could start by reinstating Habeas Corpus, your Opinion does not bear up to scrutiny. And we could start by re-instating the Bill of Rights. You remember the Bill of Rights don't you. It is for ALL Americans, the right to a speedy trial, to face your accusers, etc. etc.

[mkemse]

Just want it stated that the above is simply your opinion as well. It does not bear up to the facts that are still coming out. So just be aware, the info you posted to Thorne bear true for you as well. Just an opinion.

And I would like privacy rules reinstated, It has been proven that the collection of data from phone calls was NOT just for Terrorist phone calls, it was EVERYBODY's phone calls.

And I don't know, we could start by reinstating Habeas Corpus, your Opinion does not bear up to scrutiny. And we could start by re-instating the Bill of Rights. You remember the Bill of Rights don't you. It is for ALL Americans, the right to a speedy trial, to face your accusers, etc. etc.

Very well said, I forgot about the Bill of Right... Oh yes, Bush was President then, now i remember them BEFORE he took office, while he served where did they go???

And Bush's Administration, being honest with the American People nd letting people know what he planned to do ect (not including sesitive Security ifo, ) was a transparent as a brick wall you can see NOTHING beyond it

[wmrs2]

Just want it stated that the above is simply your opinion as well. It does not bear up to the facts that are still coming out. So just be aware, the info you posted to Thorne bear true for you as well. Just an opinion.

And I would like privacy rules reinstated, It has been proven that the collection of data from phone calls was NOT just for Terrorist phone calls, it was EVERYBODY's phone calls.

And I don't know, we could start by reinstating Habeas Corpus, your Opinion does not bear up to scrutiny. And we could start by re-instating the Bill of Rights. You remember the Bill of Rights don't you. It is for ALL Americans, the right to a speedy trial, to face your accusers, etc. etc.

As far as I can see, there are more opinions on this forum than you would expect especially since the Bill of Rights have been tossed aside. I can't think of any of my Rights that have been taken away. Maybe you could name a few for me that you once had and are now gone. I would be interested in knowing how you suffered personally during the Bush administration. Bush can listen to any phone call of mine. I like the way he kept the country safe. There are no complaints there. Sometimes I thought the Dems. wanted to lose the war just so they could say Bush did it. Do you think there is any truth to that at all?

[mkemse]

As far as I can see, there are more opinions on this forum than you would expect especially since the Bill of Rights have been tossed aside. I can't think of any of my Rights that have been taken away. Maybe you could name a few for me that you once had and are now gone. I would be interested in knowing how you suffered personally during the Bush administration. Bush can listen to any phone call of mine. I like the way he kept the country safe. There are no complaints there. Sometimes I thought the Dems. wanted to lose the war just so they could say Bush did it. Do you think there is any truth to that at all?

None, accoding tothe Unisted States Consitution for the US to go to war a Delelaration of War is supposed to be passed by Congress, ie WW1,WW11, i sd not rmember any Declaration for Invading a Soverien Country, I rmember hw was go to show Iraqi's "Shock and Awe" but I do not recall him asking Congress (which i might ad was REPUBLICAN controled at the time) permission to go into Warwith Iraq, oh thats right he didn't he just decided on his own to invade that right
As far as the wiretaping goes I can hardlybelieve that ever single person in the United States needs thier phone taped for "National Security Rasons" if we do that mean we have 256,00,00 terrorists in this country th entire population plus if Citzens, if they hasd reason, yes but not anyone and everyon they wanted to that is a violation of my Fredom of Speach Rights,

But on thing peole will learn as time goes on, DO NOT MESS WITH THE US but if you do, know ahead of time that once we distroy your country will be more then happy to send you billions upon billions to rebulid what we distroyed, name 1 country we did not rebuild after a war with them??
There used to be and my very well still be alive thesaying "Hey, you want to rebuld your country, make it more modern, then go to war with the United States, they'll rebuild it for you"

[wmrs2]

None, accoding tothe Unisted States Consitution for the US to go to war a Delelaration of War is supposed to be passed by Congress, ie WW1,WW11, i sd not rmember any Declaration for Invading a Soverien Country, I rmember hw was go to show Iraqi's "Shock and Awe" but I do not recall him asking Congress (which i might ad was REPUBLICAN controled at the time) permission to go into Warwith Iraq, oh thats right he didn't he just decided on his own to invade that right
As far as the wiretaping goes I can hardlybelieve that ever single person in the United States needs thier phone taped for "National Security Rasons" if we do that mean we have 256,00,00 terrorists in this country th entire population plus if Citzens, if they hasd reason, yes but not anyone and everyon they wanted to that is a violation of my Fredom of Speach Rights,

But on thing peole will learn as time goes on, DO NOT MESS WITH THE US but if you do, know ahead of time that once we distroy your country will be more then happy to send you billions upon billions to rebulid what we distroyed, name 1 country we did not rebuild after a war with them??
There used to be and my very well still be alive thesaying "Hey, you want to rebuld your country, make it more modern, then go to war with the United States, they'll rebuild it for you"

Are you saying that the Obama admin. should not spend more money in Afghanistan? Just asking? What are you going to do if he does?

[mkemse]

Are you saying that the Obama admin. should not spend more money in Afghanistan? Just asking? What are you going to do if he does?

Yes and No, wewill need to spend money on tropps, suppies, tanks arms ect but also rembmerthat BinLaden launch 911 from Afghinstand NOT Iraq, soe even say we went into Iraq to distract the attention from Afghistan, i have no opion on that, i do know that on sept 11, 2001 e lost 3,200 peole in the attack onthe World Trade center and the Al Quaida was based in Afganistan then and probably are now in the Tora Bora Mountains, the issue is the mountainsare to roughto do much with duringther winter season and they enompases a huge amount of area, Binladen and his follwers survive there inthrwinter because they live there, they have adapted to it, our solders have no
Yes, invest, monwy for troops. ffod ect and the similar but not torebulid to ge trid of Bin Laden, NO DO NOT INVEST to rebuild the country when we finish, they provoked ys not us them, why shoud we pay to rebuld thier country??
If your neighbors house urns down are yo going to pay to help rebuld it, i don't think os (excluding insurance) so why should we rebuld Afghanistan, or Iraq ect ect
We help everyone rebuld hw many countire or Nation ever loaned the United STates anyhing after a MAJOR disaster, like Katrina, or California Wildfires thsat distroyed thought of acs of lad and high priced home, not oe country offer to liift afingerto help us, we help everyone nobody ever offer us help
It is time this country says, "you provoked us, you attacked us, BUTyou rebild youf own country,
Iraq has over $500 Billion in money from oil, why sre we rebulding thier country they have the oney let them rebuld thier own country, let us us our money to take care of issues at home, to many to list but the UnitedStates has finiacial issues we have to address here at home, but ratherthen doin that, money was spent on Iraq ect ect
We do not or did not atthe time have the money to insure every child in this country had medical insurance, Bush said it expansion of CHIP was to expsensive, but 3 days later he had NO problem asking Congress for $150 BILLION Dollars for Iraq, Obama is gonig o make sure thatevery child has medical insurace in thiis country, if they raise my taxes to cover that I have no issue withthat, if they raise my Taxes to raise another $100 Billoin for Iraq i hacwa HUGE problem with tha,t let's take care of ouer own before wetake car of others
1 last point, you are out with a Friend, you only have money for 1 Ice Cream cone, you buy it, your friend wants part of it, you say when i am done, you get say 1/2 through and have had your fill of it, and give it to him or her, you have taken care of YOURSELF before you did your firend which is the way to do things, let the USA take care of it's own before we offer Billions upon Billions to other nation who probably never did anything or offer us anything to us except ask fo OUR money, TAX PAYER MONEER money

Simply put, invest what mony we have to to find Bin Laden and Al Quaida, theyattacked us we didn't attack them to take them out, DO NOT INVEST money to rebuld Afghanistan after that si done let them rebuld themselves, they made thier bed they can sleep in it

Do I support Obama, yes, did I vote for him YES, will I supoort everything he wants to do or plans to do NO, but you are not goinig to please everyone all the time no matter who you are or what you do as thesaying goes "You can please all the people some of the time, and some ofthe people all the time, but you will never ever please ALL THE PEOPLE ALLTHE TIME it will never happen Bush had alot of stauch supporters til then end, I seriously doubt they all supported him `100% of the timeon ever single thing he did, say or wanted to do, it isn't realistic or possible to please 100% of the peole 100% of the time
But if you happen to find Uptopia please let me know

[DuncanONeil]

"rembmerthat BinLaden launch 911 from Afghinstand NOT Iraq"

So you are of the opinion that terrorists exist only in Afghanistan?

[mkemse]

"rembmerthat BinLaden launch 911 from Afghinstand NOT Iraq"

So you are of the opinion that terrorists exist only in Afghanistan?

No there are terrorist world wide, but at thetime of 911 Al Quisa and Bin Laden were based in Afghanistan in the Tora Bora Mountains as many have suggested but never proved

[DuncanONeil]

"None, accoding tothe Unisted States Consitution for the US to go to war a Delelaration of War is supposed to be passed by Congress"

You are a little bit out of date here. Congress gave the President the authority to take action as the CIC for troop concentrations of up to 200,000. And in spite of that Congress authorized military action against Iraq.

[mkemse]

"None, accoding tothe Unisted States Consitution for the US to go to war a Delelaration of War is supposed to be passed by Congress"

You are a little bit out of date here. Congress gave the President the authority to take action as the CIC for troop concentrations of up to 200,000. And in spite of that Congress authorized military action against Iraq.

Ok never read of hear about a Delclaration War Declared, justthat we planned to invadewith 25,00 tropps which now is over 150,000

als I postes earlier in this thread the Definition of Communism as you asked, It was post last night (March 2, 2009) t is hre somewhere justnot sure now with all the after psosts were it is located

[DuncanONeil]

"Ok never read of hear about a Delclaration War Declared"

THREATS AND RESPONSES: THE VOTE; CONGRESS AUTHORIZES BUSH TO USE FORCE AGAINST IRAQ, CREATING A BROAD MANDATE
By ALISON MITCHELL and CARL HULSE
Published: Friday, October 11, 2002
New York Times

The Senate voted overwhelmingly early this morning to authorize President Bush to use force against Iraq, joining with the House in giving him a broad mandate to act against Saddam Hussein.

[DuncanONeil]

"als I postes earlier in this thread the Definition of Communism as you asked,"

I did not ask!

[DuncanONeil]

"As far as the wiretaping goes I can hardlybelieve that ever single person in the United States needs thier phone taped for "National Security Rasons":"

But that is not happening! It is logistically impossible!

[Belgarold]

As far as I can see, there are more opinions on this forum than you would expect especially since the Bill of Rights have been tossed aside. I can't think of any of my Rights that have been taken away. Maybe you could name a few for me that you once had and are now gone. I would be interested in knowing how you suffered personally during the Bush administration. Bush can listen to any phone call of mine. I like the way he kept the country safe. There are no complaints there. Sometimes I thought the Dems. wanted to lose the war just so they could say Bush did it. Do you think there is any truth to that at all?

The same tired old accusations? Democrats are unAmerican? Democrats wanted Bush to lose? Bush NEVER supported the troops, but supported the corporate interests in Iraq. KBR made more people sick with bad water, Several soldiers were electrocuted due to bad wiring by KBR, Blackwater put our Military in harms way multiple times. There were soldier's family raising money to buy body armor for the soldiers. And this is Pro-American?

And I thought the Bill of Rights was for ALL Americans. You seem to have the attitude that if it doesn't affect me who is it really hurting. More than 200 people kept at Guantanamo, Americans, and Canadaians and Germans sent to prisons in other countries without being charged.

Torturing prisoners hurts our military. BY torturing our prisoners we give the enemy the feeling that they can torture ours. And our actions cause us to lose our reputation in other countries.

Now a lot of Isolationist Conservatives say it doesn't matter what others think of us. But that is naive and dangerous. We need support from allies. If you want to stick your head in the sand and not care what rights were or are taken away from us so be it. But I am trying to look at the big picture.

And Bush did NOT make us safer, he put us in more danger.

[DuncanONeil]

I would have a lot to say here but since you would not care .......

[DuncanONeil]

Habeas Corpus was not dispensed with! To do so would require an Amendment.

What is the evidence that all phone calls were intercepted? Just look at the feasibility of doing that. There are 330 million people in the country. For discussion let us postulate that half of them have phones. I know my phone usage is below average, but using that will give an understanding of the magnitude of the difficulty of what you believe. That below average phone usage gives us 710 million hours of phone calls per month.
I know you will suggest that computers are used to scan for stuff but that does not fit with your original premise, but even so. Such a progrom, assume the most efficient, can not leave you with less than 10% or 71 million hours PER MONTH. The manpower does not exist to deal with that kind of input. Even using all of our military assets it would take a month and a half to go over that much material.