Do people 'deserve' universal health care?

[Belgarold]

To add on to MMI's post. There is a public health issue involved in the argument FOR Universal Health care as well. If someone who can't afford health care (and in this country there are more and more of us) and they get something serious or contagious it affects their whole area.

My feeling is the Health Care Insurance Industry are the ones that create the socialist bugaboo. They have a cash cow here and do not want to lose it. WHile most Americans suffer. And where a high school educated clerk decides what will be paid for and what won't be.

ALL PEOPLE deserve health care.

ANd Duncan, you are right, but many that do not support Universal Health care use that argument. That the poor are ALL ne'erdowells that do not deserve to be treated like human beings. SO MMI's point was sound, it IS callous to believe this. But many, many people believe it.

[Thorne]

I'm going to play some Devil's Advocate here. (If I believed in hell I'd probably be condemned to the seventh circle for this. And some here would be more than happy to escort me there! )

ALL PEOPLE deserve health care.

Why?

I can think of quite a few people who don't deserve health care. I can think of quite a few who don't deserve to live!

Should a junkie who poisons himself with toxic chemicals every day of his life be entitled to the same quality of health care as hard working citizen? Should someone who drinks himself into a stupor night after night, destroying his own liver in the process, be given the same chance for a new liver as the young mother who's liver was damaged in a car accident? And what of the doctors and nurses who might no longer be able to set their own fees for services rendered. Don't they deserve better than that?

Everyone deserves healthy foods, too, don't they? So why not devise a Universal Food Service System, so anybody who's hungry can walk into any restaurant and get the most expensive meal for free? Just trash the food stamp program. That only lets people get the cheapest foods. We all deserve to eat steaks, every night!

And people need transportation, too, don't they? Why not give everyone a brand new luxury car, so they can get around when they have to? And don't forget the gas! Everyone needs free gas, too. And heating oil. And housing. We DESERVE it! Don't we? Hell, the government's paying for it. They have plenty of money!

All right, all right, I realize I'm bordering on the ridiculous here (if I haven't already crossed that border.) But my point is that nobody deserves anything. We have to EARN our way in this world. Nobody has to give anything to anyone.

As I understand it, Universal Health Care brings everyone to the same level (theoretically) so that the bum from the Bowery and the millionaire from Park Avenue get the same quality of medicine, the same quality of nursing care and the same quality of hospital care. While I'm sure that the bum sees nothing wrong with this, I'm also sure that the millionaire does! And so do I.

Should we provide health care to those who cannot afford it? Certainly! That doesn't mean it has to be the greatest quality health care, though. A certain basic level of care and treatment would be called for. Beyond that it's pretty much pay as you go.

And yes, I realize that condemns the children of poor families to lower quality health care simply because of their parents position in society. Short of raising all children in a central creche system until they are old enough to earn their own way, I don't see any cure for this. Life's a bitch!

(Geez, I'm gonna get crucified for this!)

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

As I understand it, Universal Health Care brings everyone to the same level (theoretically) so that the bum from the Bowery and the millionaire from Park Avenue get the same quality of medicine, the same quality of nursing care and the same quality of hospital care. While I'm sure that the bum sees nothing wrong with this, I'm also sure that the millionaire does! And so do

As I understand it, Universal Health Care means that basic health care is available to everyone. Germany, for instance, has a Universal Health Care that covers 85% of their population that covers basic health needs. The other 15% opt for private insurance as they can afford it. Germany has had a form of universal coverage since 1883 under Otto Von Bismarck, by the way.

[Belgarold]

I'm going to play some Devil's Advocate here. (If I believed in hell I'd probably be condemned to the seventh circle for this. And some here would be more than happy to escort me there! )

Why?

I can think of quite a few people who don't deserve health care. I can think of quite a few who don't deserve to live!

Should a junkie who poisons himself with toxic chemicals every day of his life be entitled to the same quality of health care as hard working citizen? Should someone who drinks himself into a stupor night after night, destroying his own liver in the process, be given the same chance for a new liver as the young mother who's liver was damaged in a car accident? And what of the doctors and nurses who might no longer be able to set their own fees for services rendered. Don't they deserve better than that?

Everyone deserves healthy foods, too, don't they? So why not devise a Universal Food Service System, so anybody who's hungry can walk into any restaurant and get the most expensive meal for free? Just trash the food stamp program. That only lets people get the cheapest foods. We all deserve to eat steaks, every night!

And people need transportation, too, don't they? Why not give everyone a brand new luxury car, so they can get around when they have to? And don't forget the gas! Everyone needs free gas, too. And heating oil. And housing. We DESERVE it! Don't we? Hell, the government's paying for it. They have plenty of money!

All right, all right, I realize I'm bordering on the ridiculous here (if I haven't already crossed that border.) But my point is that nobody deserves anything. We have to EARN our way in this world. Nobody has to give anything to anyone.

As I understand it, Universal Health Care brings everyone to the same level (theoretically) so that the bum from the Bowery and the millionaire from Park Avenue get the same quality of medicine, the same quality of nursing care and the same quality of hospital care. While I'm sure that the bum sees nothing wrong with this, I'm also sure that the millionaire does! And so do I.

Should we provide health care to those who cannot afford it? Certainly! That doesn't mean it has to be the greatest quality health care, though. A certain basic level of care and treatment would be called for. Beyond that it's pretty much pay as you go.

And yes, I realize that condemns the children of poor families to lower quality health care simply because of their parents position in society. Short of raising all children in a central creche system until they are old enough to earn their own way, I don't see any cure for this. Life's a bitch!

(Geez, I'm gonna get crucified for this!)

Maybe not crucified, but I do take exception to much you have said, LOL.

I DO believe that people deserve to be fed. Just on what we Americans throw out every day we could feed the hungry. And there are too many people going hungry in this country.

Granted the car thing aside (a bit far out there :-) ). I believe, yes the Junkie needs to have the OPTION of getting care for his addiction. And Life may be a bitch but that is no reason we can't strive to make it better.

And true socialism is supposed to do as you say. Everybody is equal and gets equal care. And in a perfect world maybe that would work. But if you look at the USSR, China, etc. Corruption wins out and the Commisars and leaders live VERY well while the populace suffers. But we have our OWN share of corruption in this system as well.

I believe that what Obama proposes is that if you don't like the government plan you can opt out and have your own plan. The socialistic, we are going to ruin your health care bugaboo, is a scare tactic from the Health Insurance industry.

Dr. BuzzCzar's explanation of the German system is probably what we would build here.

But we have to get past all the scare tactics and misrepresented facts I believe.