Do people 'deserve' universal health care?

[Thorne]

I'm not looking for a bunch of sympathy, just pointing out that this debate on health care has a human face.

You do have my sympathy, sir. I know some of what you are going through as my brother is also undergoing treatments for cancer. He has recently had stem cell treatments and hopefully has turned the tide on his disease, but there are no guarantees.

Fortunately, his bills are largely covered by his disability insurance, which he earned by working for most of his life, paying his taxes, paying his dues, just like you and I and the vast majority of people in this country. Have we earned the right to health care? Certainly! We have done our bits to help society and both live and protect our ways of life.

As I understand it, Universal Health Care means that basic health care is available to everyone. Germany, for instance, has a Universal Health Care that covers 85% of their population that covers basic health needs. The other 15% opt for private insurance as they can afford it.

This is more in line with what I think UHC should be, as there is always the option for better coverage if desired. And as long as everyone pays into the system, more or less, that's fine.

But what of those who don't pay in? What of those who opt out because they need that extra few dollars a week in their paycheck and can't afford alternative care. Do we still provide them with free health care? And those who never pay into the system at all, are they eligible? While these may be a relatively small percentage of the population, probably more than the liberals would admit to but less than the conservatives will whine about, it is still a significant number of people, all living off the hard work of other people.

As Belgarold says in his post above, in a perfect world these kinds of systems would work well. But in a perfect world I guess these systems wouldn't be needed. This world is far from perfect, though. Unless I can get full reassurances that hard-working, law-abiding people can be treated well without having to be dragged down by hangers-on who will not work and will not abide by the law, I will remain suspicious of these kinds of systems.

[Dr_BuzzCzar]

But what of those who don't pay in? What of those who opt out because they need that extra few dollars a week in their paycheck and can't afford alternative care. Do we still provide them with free health care? And those who never pay into the system at all, are they eligible? While these may be a relatively small percentage of the population, probably more than the liberals would admit to but less than the conservatives will whine about, it is still a significant number of people, all living off the hard work of other people.

As Belgarold says in his post above, in a perfect world these kinds of systems would work well. But in a perfect world I guess these systems wouldn't be needed. This world is far from perfect, though. Unless I can get full reassurances that hard-working, law-abiding people can be treated well without having to be dragged down by hangers-on who will not work and will not abide by the law, I will remain suspicious of these kinds of systems.

Have you ever been into a hospital emergency room on a Saturday or Sunday? Unfortunately, I've had that experience and we have socialized medicine. Its already here. A significant number of people that don't have insurance go to emergency rooms. According to an experienced (read:Gray haired) Infectious Disease doctor I was having a conversation with this week, her estimation is 50% of the people that come to emergency rooms are uninsured.

We in the U.S. spend fantastic sums on health care and our results lag well behind most other developed nations. That's a proven fact. It isn't conjecture. Our system needs repair and it needs it quickly. I think we need to get the system in place that is an umbrella coverage for all and then work on how to weed out the cheats from both the providers and participants. I am under no illusion that there will not be those that try to beat the system but I can't see punishing the majority because of the failings of the few and our fear of rewarding bad behavior.

[Thorne]

Have you ever been into a hospital emergency room on a Saturday or Sunday? Unfortunately, I've had that experience and we have socialized medicine. Its already here. A significant number of people that don't have insurance go to emergency rooms. According to an experienced (read:Gray haired) Infectious Disease doctor I was having a conversation with this week, her estimation is 50% of the people that come to emergency rooms are uninsured.

And except in some of the more elite hospital systems, they are all taken care of. Perhaps they don't get the best quality care, but there are very few who are ever turned away.

And yes, I have been in a hospital emergency room on a Saturday morning. Fortunately, it wasn't an emergency. My son had received stitches in an earlier emergency and was supposed to have them removed. I took one look at all the people crammed into that emergency room, saw that many were drunk, some were wounded, most were sick, and all waiting for their turn at the "free" treatment, because they could not be turned away. I was fortunate to be able to say "Fuck it!" And I took my son to his pediatrician, who removed the stitches for his usual fee. I was happy to pay it.