Firearms, knives, police and fellons

[fetishdj]

There was a full (and much publicised) enquiry into the tube shooting and it was found that the police did not act appropriately and were therefore culpable. As for the table leg, I am not sure I agree with Ian on this so much. If the police are pointing guns at me, my response would be to drop everything (no matter what it is) and do what they say. You can discuss the specifics later and even take the police to court for mental anguish or similar but at least you CAN do that rather than having to rely on your bereaved family to do it.

Though there is always the panic... I did a personality test recently which said that I have the sort of personality which reacts well to crisis (thinking rationally rather than irrationally) so I am more likely to think clearly unlike some who may do something stupid and maybe the police need to think about those who react that way and take that into account.

[IAN 2411]

There was a full (and much publicised) enquiry into the tube shooting and it was found that the police did not act appropriately and were therefore culpable. As for the table leg, I am not sure I agree with Ian on this so much. If the police are pointing guns at me, my response would be to drop everything (no matter what it is) and do what they say.

Bullshit, it was a police whitewash, i knew right from day one what the verdict would be and like so many others in the country are dismayed at how they came to a verdict of blatent stupidity. The persons that were that were supposed to be watching the flat had not been doing their job correct, in the fact that they openly stated at the inquest, they had no idea who the armed police were following. So just as a [i better save my ass atitude] they said it could be the suspect, and were told by the dumb bitch in charge of the operation, that they had permission to open fire if need be. That was brought out in the inquest that i did follow closely, unlike you fetishdj. A UK gun toting cop is just as dangerous as a bomb throwing terrorist.

I will give you example of knowing when and when not to fire. While in Belfast in Lieson street just off the Falls road, there was a riot taking place with all sorts of things being thrown. I was sitting in the back of a landrover working a radio, and a young boy of about ten years old walked up to the back of the open vehicle, and he had a molitov cocktail in his hand with the wick already alight. He pulled his hand back and said, "British soldier i am going to throw this and kill you,". I flicked of the safety catch on my Belgian FN rifle, and with my finger on the trigger put the barrel on his forehead saying, "Then let's see who will die first." We both looked at each other for a short time that felt like half my life, and then he smiled and after putting his arm down ran off. That is restraint and knowledge of the power that a fire arm gives the person carrying it, i would hate to think what would have happened if he had thrown the bomb, because i would have shot him and make no mistake about it, but i gave him the choice. Children on the Belfast streets were not only street wise but just as dangerous as the IRA. I still have dreams but not nightmares about it, but i feel that i still did the right thing, you could say that we saved each others lives.

[MMI]

Bullshit, it was a police whitewash, i knew right from day one what the verdict would be ...

Just think of how much public money would have been saved if only the Government had thought of asking you first ...

I agree with your sentiment that the police, generally, are not adequately trained to handle firearms, but isn't that why individual policemen who do carry weapons have to pass a fairly rigorous training programme? I wouldn't expect it to be as thorough as the training given to members of the Special Forces, because they wouldn't be likely to have to use guns with the power you described your own weapon as having: most British constables have never been to Ulster and would have no need for such arms, even in a shoot-out with a bunch of bank robbers. Besides, I seem to remember the RUC was routinely armed as it had to deal with various republican movements from tme to time, and I imagine their firearm skills were as good as any.

I think the comparison between the gun handling skills of the British police with the standards expected from the Special Forces is not at all enlightening. There is a world of difference between dealing with a junkie threatening to blow out the brains of a hostage, and a hardened terrorist with 30 years' experience of ambushing and bombing British soldiers. Perhaps our American friends can tell us if they would expect a member of the NYPD to be able to handle some of the US Army's most powerful weapons as proficiently as someone in Delta Force.

I was reminded of something I was told about the Isle of Man's police force. It may be true; it's probably not, but it's amusing anyway. It seems the IoM's gun laws are pretty lax, and as a result, the police force there decided it needed an arsenal in case of need. Because the island is extremely wealthy, it was able to lash out an enormous sum of money to buy the weapons it wanted, and it duly took delivery of a mind-boggling array of weaponry. It was then realised that there was no-one on the whole force who was capable of using the weapons, or who was authorised to do so, and so, if it is necessary to ever issue weapons to deal with an "incident" they have to call a policeman from Manchester over to supervise the issue and use of the guns!!!!

[DuncanONeil]

Bullshit, it was a police whitewash, i knew right from day one what the verdict would be and like so many others in the country are dismayed at how they came to a verdict of blatent stupidity. The persons that were that were supposed to be watching the flat had not been doing their job correct, in the fact that they openly stated at the inquest, they had no idea who the armed police were following. So just as a [i better save my ass atitude] they said it could be the suspect, and were told by the dumb bitch in charge of the operation, that they had permission to open fire if need be. That was brought out in the inquest that i did follow closely, unlike you fetishdj. A UK gun toting cop is just as dangerous as a bomb throwing terrorist.

I think ian is a bit confused here. Fetish, I believe, indicated that the inquest found the police culpable in the tube shooting and Ian claims that he knew from the start it would be a whitewash? Ian, you do know that culpable means responsible. Or to be more blunt "meriting condemnation or blame especially as wrong or harmful"

I will give you example of knowing when and when not to fire. While in Belfast in Lieson street just off the Falls road, there was a riot taking place with all sorts of things being thrown. I was sitting in the back of a landrover working a radio, and a young boy of about ten years old walked up to the back of the open vehicle, and he had a molitov cocktail in his hand with the wick already alight. He pulled his hand back and said, "British soldier i am going to throw this and kill you,". I flicked of the safety catch on my Belgian FN rifle, and with my finger on the trigger put the barrel on his forehead saying, "Then let's see who will die first." We both looked at each other for a short time that felt like half my life, and then he smiled and after putting his arm down ran off. That is restraint and knowledge of the power that a fire arm gives the person carrying it, i would hate to think what would have happened if he had thrown the bomb, because i would have shot him and make no mistake about it, but i gave him the choice. Children on the Belfast streets were not only street wise but just as dangerous as the IRA. I still have dreams but not nightmares about it, but i feel that i still did the right thing, you could say that we saved each others lives.

And what would have done were he 30 feet away, said and done the same thing?

[DuncanONeil]

I understand, all to well, about appropriate reactions to cops. Well in the past I had a female dog in heat that I was walking. A bit before restrictive leash laws. As she was in heat I took my personal nightstick out just in case some randy male dog showed up.
Playing with the dog I was hiding alongside a building when a squad drove down the street, stopped, backed-up, officer got out and proceeded around the back of the car. I noted that his weapon, not readily visible, was no longer in his holster. My reaction I dropped the nightstick.

Hard to convince him I was walking a dog and the reason for the stick until I was able to whistle up the dog.

Being stupid with a cop is not a reasonable course of action!

There was a full (and much publicised) enquiry into the tube shooting and it was found that the police did not act appropriately and were therefore culpable. As for the table leg, I am not sure I agree with Ian on this so much. If the police are pointing guns at me, my response would be to drop everything (no matter what it is) and do what they say. You can discuss the specifics later and even take the police to court for mental anguish or similar but at least you CAN do that rather than having to rely on your bereaved family to do it.

Though there is always the panic... I did a personality test recently which said that I have the sort of personality which reacts well to crisis (thinking rationally rather than irrationally) so I am more likely to think clearly unlike some who may do something stupid and maybe the police need to think about those who react that way and take that into account.